The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 6

[Willie Lumpkin]

Well I saw an article a little bit ago about the Russos scouting locations for Infinity war and they showed a picture which was removed after it was posted but showed this grandiose hallway with columns and such the article said diehard fans were optimistically saying it looked like something from Latveria, Castle Doom. However it's probably Thanos related but what if...what if...what a shocker and a half that would be....

The intriguing thing is the image was deleted. Let's assume it's part of Thanos' lair. Okay. So. Thanos lives someplace where at least one small area has some stone walls. Is that too much to show? Will people say "Damn it. Now I know Captain America will die because at least a small area of Thanos' home has stone walls."?

The photo seems pretty dull with no reason to delete it unless it reveals something. Doom would certainly be a big revelation. Can we think of anything else that photo might reveal? If not, it's intriguing to wonder why they deleted it.

 

[Dark Raven]

Luke Cage had a fair bit of swearing as well. As well as female body parts on display.

Was it in the first 6 episodes at all? I'm only up to episode 6. I can't remember if I saw anything or not, although I get the vague feeling I might have.

 

[Darepool]

Hmmm. Was it Misty? That would definitely warrant a re-watch.

 

[GoblinScrier]

The intriguing thing is the image was deleted. Let's assume it's part of Thanos' lair. Okay. So. Thanos lives someplace where at least one small area has some stone walls. Is that too much to show? Will people say "Damn it. Now I know Captain America will die because at least a small area of Thanos' home has stone walls."?

The photo seems pretty dull with no reason to delete it unless it reveals something. Doom would certainly be a big revelation. Can we think of anything else that photo might reveal? If not, it's intriguing to wonder why they deleted it.

Exactly...apparently another theory is that is might be from the halls of Asgard...but that isn't exactly a big shocker to me either...I assume all realms will be under attack from Thanos and his legions...but what do I know lol...I just remain forever optimistic and suspicious of every move Marvel makes until F4 and Doom (and friends)will come home...and I feel Infinity war is a good place to start...

 

[wobbly]

Silver Samurai was named by Yukio during Yashida's funeral.

Honestly don't remember that. I guess SS was lose enough (suit of armor, 'charged' Katana) that they didn't need to get permission for who was in it.

 

[wobbly]

Hmmm. Was it Misty? That would definitely warrant a re-watch.

Partial nudity for Misty after her night with Cage iirc. Nothing graphic though.

 

[wobbly]

According to Gunn, this has happened multiple times in the past. One would think other instances are probably like the ones with Viper and Silver Samurai. They just aren't publicized.

It's not a signal that it's happening with Fantastic Four, Galactus and Silver Surfer.

Just remember, a few short years ago, Marvel offered Fox an extension on Daredevil in exchange for BORROWING Silver Surfer and Galactus. Fox said now. We saw how that turned out.

I'd agree Marvel would need to offer more than agreements to some character changes to get FF, The Surfer or Galactus back. However, they have given more: The TV Series x-verse expansion. Question that remains unanswered atm is just what had to Fox trade for that concession.

 

[Dark Raven]

Partial nudity for Misty after her night with Cage iirc. Nothing graphic though.

I have a vague recollection of that.

Spoiler

Was it just side boob or something? I really can't remember now. That would've been episode 1 wouldn't it?

 

[wobbly]

I have a vague recollection of that.

Spoiler

Was it just side boob or something? I really can't remember now. That would've been episode 1 wouldn't it?

Yup, that was all. I think it was the 1st episode too. Can't remember there being much else.

 

[NotNickFury]

I have a vague recollection of that.

Spoiler

Was it just side boob or something? I really can't remember now. That would've been episode 1 wouldn't it?

Heck, that's nothing! We saw a side-shot of Deborah Ann Woll on the first episode of Daredevil (and it was glorious), too.

 

[Dark Raven]

Heck, that's nothing! We saw a side-shot of Deborah Ann Woll on the first episode of Daredevil (and it was glorious), too.

I don't remember any boob exposure of Deborah Ann Woll in DD. That would've stood out more surely.

As far as the Inhumans go, I hope that's not an indication of what would happen with the FF if their rights did end up back at Marvel. I don't want to see them just as a TV show. They need to be in movies to do them justice. I'm not even sure the Royal Family of the Inhumans can be done justice.

 

[NotNickFury]

I don't remember any boob exposure of Deborah Ann Woll in DD. That would've stood out more surely.

Was another

Spoiler

side boob shot

 

[wobbly]

Thinking about the Ego trade, wouldn't Fox have needed to get permission for crash test Doomie? No version of Doom in the books is anything like that really (not even Ultimate). FFINO's Doom was basically merged with his space suit and has a dab hand at exploding heads scanners style (except for the Four, who Doom inexplicably never used this gift against).

Maybe Marvel gave them the thumbs up for the whole raggedy scanner Doom knowing what a friggin disaster that mess would be.

 

[ehh]

According to Gunn, this has happened multiple times in the past. One would think other instances are probably like the ones with Viper and Silver Samurai. They just aren't publicized.

It's not a signal that it's happening with Fantastic Four, Galactus and Silver Surfer.

Just remember, a few short years ago, Marvel offered Fox an extension on Daredevil in exchange for BORROWING Silver Surfer and Galactus. Fox said no. We saw how that turned out.

It's the same thing with reshoots: they happen all the time! But when they report on them, suddenly the movie is expected to be a flop.

I don't think that "character swap" deal means all that much, although I believe a F4 deal is inevitable. After all, Marvel got Daredevil back. After the rights expired.

 

[wobbly]

It's the same thing with reshoots: they happen all the time! But when they report on them, suddenly the movie is expected to be a flop.

I don't think that "character swap" deal means all that much, although I believe a F4 deal is inevitable. After all, Marvel got Daredevil back. After the rights expired.

It is (afaik) the first time we have seen that Fox does need to get Marvel to sign off on significant changes to characters, and will trade to get that agreement. That's a pretty significant reveal imo.

Pre-Marvel Studios I doubt Marvel objected too much to these things and were willing to go along so they got their characters seen on the big screen, but now they are a studio in their own right and are under the Mouse's umbrella they evidently do have a lot more say in the matter than I'd previously thought, and will make another studio barter for their agreement.

 

[ehh]

I don't get the whole "Marvel needs to approve the characters first" discussion. Fox (and Sony) have really made bad representations of characters and got away with them, so clearly this means very little if true.

So if Fox poorly represents a character in their film and Marvel doesn't like it, does Fox have to fix it? Or can they go ahead and make the movie anyway? Because that's what it looks like.

 

[wobbly]

I don't get the whole "Marvel needs to approve the characters first" discussion. Fox (and Sony) have really made bad representations of characters and got away with them, so clearly this means very little if true.

So if Fox poorly represents a character in their film and Marvel doesn't like it, does Fox have to fix it? Or can they go ahead and make the movie anyway? Because that's what it looks like.

You are missing the point that the Negasonic/Ego trade illustrates: Fox wanted to use her in Deadpool, but they wanted to change her powers completely. That's a significant change and they had to trade Ego to get Marvels agreement.

Yes, they have got away with numerous poor interpretations of characters in the past, but doing a character well isn't the same as doing a character accurately enough that it counts as using the character as stipulated by the contracts.

I think they made a pigs ear out of Apocalypse for example, but he was close enough to the character from the books that I can't see Fox needing to get any agreement as they didn't change him in a significant manner: ie: He looked like the character and had the same kind of power set.

Bottom line: They can do a character badly, but as long as they are not changing them significantly Marvel don't have a say in the matter.

 

[Zarex]

I don't get the whole "Marvel needs to approve the characters first" discussion. Fox (and Sony) have really made bad representations of characters and got away with them, so clearly this means very little if true.

So if Fox poorly represents a character in their film and Marvel doesn't like it, does Fox have to fix it? Or can they go ahead and make the movie anyway? Because that's what it looks like.

Fox can - and has! - represented Marvel characters quite poorly. The sticking point appears to be when they radically alter a character to a point at which it no longer resembles the source material.

As to why the folks at Marvel didn't stamp their feet and refuse all the ridiculous changes made in FFINO, it could be due to timing. FOX was struggling to put that garbage on film before the rights expired, and any delays caused by Marvel could have pushed the film past the expiration date. It would likely then be an issue for the courts, which FOX and Disney would have tried to avoid.

It could be that the NTW deal came about due to the problems on FFINO, and Miller got in front of the issue by dealing with Feige directly.

 

[Flint Marko]

The intriguing thing is the image was deleted. Let's assume it's part of Thanos' lair. Okay. So. Thanos lives someplace where at least one small area has some stone walls. Is that too much to show? Will people say "Damn it. Now I know Captain America will die because at least a small area of Thanos' home has stone walls."?

The photo seems pretty dull with no reason to delete it unless it reveals something. Doom would certainly be a big revelation. Can we think of anything else that photo might reveal? If not, it's intriguing to wonder why they deleted it.

I'm almost certain that it's Asgard. You could argue that isn't exactly a big reveal, but it's a reveal nonetheless. If it were Doom's castle I'd flip my **** because I can think of few things I want in life more than FF being back at home, but I think it's Asgard.

Bottom line: They can do a character badly, but as long as they are not changing them significantly Marvel don't have a say in the matter.

That's about what I assumed.

 

[Orba]

Fox can - and has! - represented Marvel characters quite poorly. The sticking point appears to be when they radically alter a character to a point at which it no longer resembles the source material.

As to why the folks at Marvel didn't stamp their feet and refuse all the ridiculous changes made in FFINO, it could be due to timing. FOX was struggling to put that garbage on film before the rights expired, and any delays caused by Marvel could have pushed the film past the expiration date. It would likely then be an issue for the courts, which FOX and Disney would have tried to avoid.

It could be that the NTW deal came about due to the problems on FFINO, and Miller got in front of the issue by dealing with Feige directly.

Part of the issue with making changes to a character like Doom as opposed to NTW is that while she has only had one Marvel version compared to Doom who has has multiple versions, making any deviations far clearer. With NTW there is only one source and had only be depicted in one way, so any change at all goes against the source. With Doom there is 616, Ultimate plus the various other depictions (1602, 2099 etc), this makes it far harder for Marvel to legally claim that Fox has strayed from the source. So Fox could pretty easily defend themselves by bringing out bits of the different versions of Doom.

 

[AlluAllu]

My theory is that Fox needed Marvel's approval for changes in Fant4stic and got it in exchange for some minor characters, races or concepts that we may see in Gotg 2 or Ragnarok.

Edit: Or given the timeline, maybe it factored in Quicksilver situation.

Are these deals a corporate secret forever or do they become available to public during our lifetime?

 

[wobbly]

My theory is that Fox needed Marvel's approval for changes in Fant4stic and got it in exchange for some minor characters, races or concepts that we may see in Gotg 2 or Ragnarok.

Edit: Or given the timeline, maybe it factored in Quicksilver situation.

Are these deals a corporate secret forever or do they become available to public during our lifetime?

They are usually kept secret (NDA's at work I suspect) but will come to light eventually due to the obvious, like when a character known to have been with another studio does come back to Marvel (Daredevil, Punisher, Ghost Rider etc). All those were reversions rather than deals however.

I think the shared business with Quicksilver was known about for a while before it became fact via DOFP and Avengers AOU though.

The Ego trade being revealed is a bit of a first, afaik.

 

[Stark Bauer]

Don't forget the Sony email hack that revealed they were talking about the Spidey waaaaay before it happened

 

[wobbly]

Don't forget the Sony email hack that revealed they were talking about the Spidey waaaaay before it happened

That was a hack though. The official announcement came when it was no longer viable to deny, with Marvel taking over production of the new movies.

The Ego deal was simply revealed in a Q&A with Tim Miller, Rhett Reese and Paul Wernick, which is a new one for me.

Only previous 'deal' I can think of being reported is one that didn't work out, when Marvel offered a DD extension in return for the Surfer & Galactus. Even that was a report from 'sources' rather than straight from the horses mouth in this case, so to speak.

I can imagine Wernick might well have been given a ticking off for revealing this one.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

And they still control it after. Win for Marvel.

Agreed. As big as the Spider-Man films are, it is small potatoes compared to the value of his merchandise rights and Spider-Man both being in the MCU and being in films that don't suck boost those sales even further.