The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 8

[R_Hythlodeus]

Or they'll have 99% chance of kicking Marvel Studious' ass after the recent string of hits.

one (1) movie does not make a string of hits really

 

[InCali]

one (1) movie does not make a string of hits really

Maybe it makes a really short string???

Marvel Netflix has been really good up to now. It's not shocking that they may have a stinker. I'll wait and see. From what I've read, it's really different than its predecessors and it's entirely possible that they were trying for a new tone that a lot of people don't like or didn't work. 80% is better than any other studio has done as far as I can tell.

 

[DyfeddRex]

If Iron Fist stinks, it will still wind up better off than Trank's Acid Trip.

And it will get the failure monkey off the back of Marvel, studios and TV both.

Me, I still holding out for this supposedly mind-blowing phase 4, which would take a while to tease out before the official announcement. Face it, most of us would like to see the phase 4 announcement have that 4 inside a circle. Preferably made of flame/plasma from a certain hothead, and one of the Ever-lovin' Blue-eyed one's many catch phrases rumbling as the voice over.

 

[TheVileOne]

If Iron Fist stinks, it will still wind up better off than Trank's Acid Trip.

And it will get the failure monkey off the back of Marvel, studios and TV both.

Me, I still holding out for this supposedly mind-blowing phase 4, which would take a while to tease out before the official announcement. Face it, most of us would like to see the phase 4 announcement have that 4 inside a circle. Preferably made of flame/plasma from a certain hothead, and one of the Ever-lovin' Blue-eyed one's many catch phrases rumbling as the voice over.

Not really, it's still a Netflix TV series. And it hasn't even launched yet.

 

[Darepool]

If the numbers are big for Netflix it shouldn't be considered a 'bust'. Still early days. Will probably underwhelm in general..

 

[InCali]

I'm going to watch at least some of it and come up with my own conclusions.

I know....I'm weird.

 

[Darepool]

Me Too.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Fox's post X2 rut of Daredevil, Elektra, FF, Silver Surfer, X3, Wolverine 1 is about as brutal as you can get and almost killed Marvel on film if MCU didn't save the day. MCU might not have made DP or Logan, but they've made plenty of films as good and better than those two and have yet to make a movie anywhere near the quality of the six consecutive films I mentioned above.

Not to mention Fox also made Fan4stic, which rivals most if not all of them on the garbage-meter.

They have not made a movie better than Logan imo.

 

[TheVileOne]

X-Men 2 came out after Daredevil.

 

[Jordacar]

I double checked. They both dropped in 2003, DD in Feb, X2 in May. Dunno of overseas releases were different.

 

[Sithborg]

I don't specifically mean you. But I've seen a lot of X-Men fans (and if you head over to the X-Men forums you'll probably see some of them) that really seem to struggle with the idea that it isn't the 90s anymore.

To be fair, most fanboys seem to have trouble with the concept that franchises rise and fall in popularity. Sadly, due to the rights issues, Fox can't really wait and give a property the time it needs before reintroducing it. Luckily, I think the X franchise is large enough that they can do that with various side teams/characters.

I mean, I am over the moon because Godzilla, and to an extent, kaiju movies, are back. After a decade of retirement by Toho. And now, almost have a new Godzilla movie every year. Which is amazing.

 

[En Sabah Nur]

Well the post I quoted from you seemed like something someone would say to mock people in this thread. I don't mean it as an insult or anything. Your post pretty much sounded like you're saying people just need great fights for it to be a great superhero movie and that's it. Who cares about a good story if you only have good fights. In essence you're applying Michael Bay logic: Just put up great fights to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Maybe that's not what you meant but it just sounded a little off the way it was articulated.

REALLY?

Having great fight scenes, does not mean the superhero movie will be great...

but...

All great superhero movies contain great fight scenes...

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Sadly, due to the rights issues, Fox can't really wait and give a property the time it needs before reintroducing it.

Are you talking about FF? Because there's nothing sad about Fox losing the rights after making 3 bad films. Should they be able to put them on ice for 20 years so everyone can forget how bad they f***ed up? Absolutely not.

What's sad is that when Fox took control of the FF rights, the FF was among the most iconic properties in the comic book world and Fox turned them into D-listers.

... and now Fox doesn't have the humility to simply turn the rights over and let Marvel do them right. That's what's sad.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Are you talking about FF? Because there's nothing sad about Fox losing the rights after making 3 bad films. Should they be able to put them on ice for 20 years so everyone can forget how bad they f***ed up? Absolutely not.

What's sad is that when Fox took control of the FF rights, the FF was among the most iconic properties in the comic book world and Fox turned them into D-listers.

... and now Fox doesn't have the humility to simply turn the rights over and let Marvel do them right. That's what's sad.

 

[Spiderine]

Are you talking about FF? Because there's nothing sad about Fox losing the rights after making 3 bad films. Should they be able to put them on ice for 20 years so everyone can forget how bad they f***ed up? Absolutely not.

What's sad is that when Fox took control of the FF rights, the FF was among the most iconic properties in the comic book world and Fox turned them into D-listers.

... and now Fox doesn't have the humility to simply turn the rights over and let Marvel do them right. That's what's sad.

Very sad indeed for the fans. Because right now they are simply in limbo. And our last memory of the 4 and Doom is a film everyone wants to pretend never happened. Or better yet still can't believe was allowed to happen.

Sometimes I wonder if there have been talks that maybe FOX is asking for too much or is Marvel even interested in making a deal since they probably know they can just sit for 5 years and get it completely free. If nothing has happened yet then Im betting on the latter.

 

[henzINNIT]

Great Super Hero Movies have Great Fight Scenes. This is why Fox has not made one Great X-men movie. Meanwhile Marvel has made at least 5 GREAT Super Hero movies.

Thankfully, you're not in charge of superhero movies.

I prefered DOFP to Marvel's offerings that year (and that was some stiff competition). Maybe the brutal sentinel masscres in the future or Quicksilver's sequence weren't "great action" enough for you, but they were for me and only a portion of a very well made film.

Hell, Nolan is like CBM jesus to many and he couldn't shoot a well choreographed Batman fight to save his life.

 

[kguillou]

You know what's sad? This is gonna sound absurd but I think FFINO could have been FF's version of Logan, in that its a film that takes a concept and does something different with it to wide acclaim. Even though the film was garbage, there were nuggets of gold in there and some good ideas. I know fans were up in arms about the changes to the source material but I maintain that if FFINO was a good movie, in that it had likeable charming characters, a solid three act structure, a menacing, scary Doctor Doom and some competently constructed action sequences, it really could have been a gamechanger and given the FF an update that, perhaps, it needed.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely believe you could take the FF as they are in the source material and make it work, but I don't think Trank's approach was inherently flawed. The problem was the movie was a frankenstein monster of crap stitched together as a result of Trank fighting the studio. I think if the film had just worked on a movie level, fans would've gotten over the changes and embraced it.

Sigh..alas...

 

[Darepool]

I don't get the comparison. Logan was an absolute 'spiritual love poem' to the character and definitive for that reason.

FFINO (really the name says it all) is anything but..

There may have been a good film in there somewhere, just not a good FF film.

 

[Dark Raven]

Sorry no. FFINO was utter crap. What you thought were nuggets of gold were probably just undigested bits of food dyed with turmeric.

 

[Zarex]

If Fant4stic was good AND had a new title -Young Adventure Team vs. The Monster from Planet Zero - FOX may have been able to pull something off. But the complete and utter disrespect for the source material put this one in the No View zone for me, even if Trank made the Citizen Kane of Irradiated Explorer films.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

You know what's sad? This is gonna sound absurd but I think FFINO could have been FF's version of Logan, in that its a film that takes a concept and does something different with it to wide acclaim. Even though the film was garbage, there were nuggets of gold in there and some good ideas. I know fans were up in arms about the changes to the source material but I maintain that if FFINO was a good movie, in that it had likeable charming characters, a solid three act structure, a menacing, scary Doctor Doom and some competently constructed action sequences, it really could have been a gamechanger and given the FF an update that, perhaps, it needed.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely believe you could take the FF as they are in the source material and make it work, but I don't think Trank's approach was inherently flawed. The problem was the movie was a frankenstein monster of crap stitched together as a result of Trank fighting the studio. I think if the film had just worked on a movie level, fans would've gotten over the changes and embraced it.

Sigh..alas...

the problem with that theory, in my opinion, is, that deconstructing and reconstructing characters works IF the audience is already very familiar with said characters and grew tired with the same old interpretation. The FF never got the chance to tire the audience with a truthful interpretation that warranted a deconstruction and reconstruction like they may have gotten in a hypothetical good or decent version of Fant4stic. There was a no-budget Corman movie (that only hardore fans had seen), well meant but deeply troubled Story movies (better forgotten) and therefore nothing anything close to the true potential those characters have. Not the time to go against everything they stand for.

 

[kguillou]

I don't at all disagree that the movie we got was utter garbage, I'm just saying that IF the movie was good on a technical level, had engaging characters and a coherent plot, you don't think that it could've been a hit even if it deviated from the source material? I think, as long as the product is GOOD, most people will take what is given to them at face value and won't even see it as a "deconstruction." I think FFINO's problem was not so much that it took a left turn from the source material, its that it was an unfinished, unpolished, frankenstein monster that was regurgitated into theaters.

I liked the first 20 minutes of the movie and I liked some of the horror elements/ ideas, but the remaining 70 minutes was just one WTF after another.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

I don't at all disagree that the movie we got was utter garbage, I'm just saying that IF the movie was good on a technical level, had engaging characters and a coherent plot, you don't think that it could've been a hit even if it deviated from the source material? I think, as long as the product is GOOD, most people will take what is given to them at face value and won't even see it as a "deconstruction." I think FFINO's problem was not so much that it took a left turn from the source material, its that it was an unfinished, unpolished, frankenstein monster that was regurgitated into theaters.

I liked the first 20 minutes of the movie and I liked some of the horror elements/ ideas, but the remaining 70 minutes was just one WTF after another.

It tried to make the FF what they aren't. 'Body horror' isn't a genre I'd associate that IP with except, maybe, from one page of their Kirby drawn origin story. That was never how they were written or how they functioned. For a reason. That doesn't mean, a body horror FF movie has to be a failure from the beginning, but for it to work, I believe, there should be a certain familiarity from the GA with what they really are, so that another interpretation of it can be appreciated as such.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I can agree only at the very base conceptual level. Yes, I think in theory a deconstructed superhero movie with total changes from the source could work. But the signs were obvious from the very beginning that this movie was going to be a disaster. I'd say it went off the rails, but that would require it to be on the track in the first place. There isn't really any place during development that you can say, "if only this thing went differently, things might have turned out okay."

Plus, while it could work, playing it straight would be considerably easier to pull off.

 

[kguillou]

Fair enough, I think either way the movie definitely would've been an uphill battle with fans, but if it was a well written story, with good charming performances from the cast and some impressive action sequences, I think it could've potentially been a hit while retaining that darker horror aspect. Yes, thats not how FF was intended but if it was a good sci-fi/ horror movie first, I think people could've warmed up to it.

Just my opinion though, y'all.