The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 8

[En Sabah Nur]

I disagree, I think with the X-Men movies, the highs are pretty high and lows are pretty low, like Star Trek, Star Wars, etc.

Rare that highs are above average. Mostly nothing but awfully low lows that stay around forever.

I think the best of the X-Men films can go toe to toe with the best of the MCU.

---- no! Iron man #1 and #2 are both worlds better than anything that Xmen has ever done. And those are middle of the pack to low MCU movies.

If you took all the best fight scenes in Fox history and put them all together, it still wouldn't be close to "Big Ant Man" fight scene. That was just a whole new level.

Now the FF movies are like Transformers or Resident Evil movies, just one stinker after another, only those 2 franchises made more money.

X-men Apocalypse was worse than any FF movie. Its almost unwatchable. The fight scenes are awful, and the mass destruction was just pointless, meaningless crap.

I don't mind a film series with highs and lows like Star Trek or Star wars,

Stop it. Star Wars is epic. X-men is boring. Are you kidding me. X-men makes a quarter of the money that Star Wars and MCU movies make. Its two different levels.

but I can't stand one where there are no good entries into the series, which is why I think X-Men is fine at Fox, but the FF must go back to Marvel.

It needs to all go to Marvel. All of It. I could get an amazing Apocalypse character with Marvel. As we saw, I am only going to get Ivan Ooze with Fox. Thats not good enough for me.


Not sure you will get this analogy

Fox = Great American Hero
Marvel = Superman

 

[Xeno]

Iron Man was my favorite character for like 20 years before the film. But it is undeniable that the X-Men were far more popular than the Avengers in the 90s.

Unfortunately, it seems like many X-Men fans have had trouble adjusting to the idea that the X-Men have fallen substantially in terms of interest and popularity. Especially since Spider-Man has maintained his popularity (although he's been big since the 60s when the X-Men weren't very popular).

That is definitely true. Proof can be seen in this very thread.

 

[En Sabah Nur]

So here is my fix.

First off they need to partner up a little bit. They should form a 2 part movie studio. One that keeps continuous continuity. Marvel. And one that does the one off rated R stand alone movies that focuses on individual characters more so that are better served with violent movies.

I would even want the same characters, so for instance Black Widow could get her own stand alone movie, deadpool style in the fox side of things. A rated R spot depicting her upbringing and life. And keep Scarlet Johanson. But then Marvel brings her back for the avengers movies plus other camio's.

But this just allows both companies to do what they do best, make money, feed off each others abilities and movies, and obviously give the fans exactly what they need.

Would love a rated R Omega Red movie by fox done dead pool style. Him ripping people apart. Then I would love to see him play a roll in the MCU. And that is why they would have to work together on this, mostly Marvel just overseeing everything to make sure that characters are done correctly and can be brought back and forth from each set seamlessly.


Both Fox and Marvel keep the rights to who they have, but allow for use of any character for a reasonable rent price. An easy cut and dry system.

But this is the perfect marriage. These MCU movies are getting so big, that its easy to forget about many of the smaller individual characters. The way Fox has done Deadpool and Wolverine, they have proven that they are great at making very profitable small scale movies. They can make 800mill on any character. But they would probably only make 250mill trying to make a Galactus movie. So they should be making any stand alone movie that has a character that has a rated R plot.

Then Marvel can take the mutants who Fox has done the origin stories for and put them into the continuity of the MCU fabric.

Done and Done.

 

[The Overlord]

Rare that highs are above average. Mostly nothing but awfully low lows that stay around forever.



---- no! Iron man #1 and #2 are both worlds better than anything that Xmen has ever done. And those are middle of the pack to low MCU movies.

I think most people would rank X-2, First Class, Logan, Deadpool, Days of Future Past above Iron Man 2. Iron Man 2 is more comparable to the Wolverine.

Iron Man is a peer to those movies, but whether one likes the best of the MCU vs. the best of the X-Men films better is a matter of personal taste, I like the best of both for different reasons.

If you took all the best fight scenes in Fox history and put them all together, it still wouldn't be close to "Big Ant Man" fight scene. That was just a whole new level.

I like that fight scene, but good movies are more then just good fight scenes.

First Class didn't have super amazing special effects, but it worked due to good writing and acting.

X-men Apocalypse was worse than any FF movie. Its almost unwatchable. The fight scenes are awful, and the mass destruction was just pointless, meaningless crap.

You may think so, I doubt anyone else would rank FFINIO above Apocalypse.

Stop it. Star Wars is epic. X-men is boring. Are you kidding me. X-men makes a quarter of the money that Star Wars and MCU movies make. Its two different levels.

Box office take doesn't translate into better movies, several Transformers made a ton of money and all those movies suck.

And the prequels are as bad or even worse then the worst X-Men films, so I stand by my comparison.

It needs to all go to Marvel. All of It. I could get an amazing Apocalypse character with Marvel. As we saw, I am only going to get Ivan Ooze with Fox. Thats not good enough for me.

I disagree, because even in the comics, I think the X-Men would work better separate from the rest of the Marvel universe. The FF work better in the greater Marvel universe.

 

[Big Bang]

And the prequels are as bad or even worse then the worst X-Men films, so I stand by my comparison.

I don't know about that. People will still watch the prequels, even begrudgingly since even though parts of them were awful, there were still cool elements to be found.

Meanwhile most of the X films just have not aged well. X3 and Origins: Wolverine are just unwatchable by pretty much anyone. The rest of the world have left the X films behind. They can still put out a solid hit here and there, but the X-Men are nowhere near the Phenom they once were. That space in pop culture is now occupied by Marvel and The Avengers.

Fox is in many ways the X-Men's worst enemy. If they were to relinquish the movie rights back to Marvel there would likely be an X-Men Renaissance. Sure there would be fewer films (if any), but they'd be widely available in virtually every other form of media again.

 

[Ivan Drago]

Tbh I enjoy watching X3, it's actually pretty watchable. Especially now that DOFP retconned that movie away.

 

[dax]

They released X-Men Apocalypse last year.

They also released Deadpool, Logan, First Class, and Days of Future Past. These successes outweigh their only failure.

Yeah, 17 years that gave us Last Stand, Origins, The Wolverine, DOFP, Apocalypse...
I have complete faith that they have at least 50% chance to f**k this up

Or they'll have 99% chance of kicking Marvel Studious' ass after the recent string of hits.

Why does Fox make terrible Fantastic Four films and okay X-men films? Is that by design? I don't think so. I think it's a matter of Fox not understanding how to make good Marvel films and, in some cases, having the right director who knows how to make it work despite Fox's general cluelessness.

If that were true, then the X-men series would be in the same dump as the Fantastic 4 movies but it's not. Maybe, Fox doesn't know how to relate to a family of 4 astronauts who become superheroes after being exposed to cosmic radiation because to them, it sounds like a cheesy rip-off of Flash Gordon. With X-men, Fox has a better understanding of them since the idea of mutants fighting for civil rights is similar to real life issues so they've hit gold with the X-men.

In the case of the X-Men, Bryan Singer is the primary reason the films have done reasonably well. Is there another Bryan Singer waiting in the wings? Maybe, maybe not. It's just as likely we'll get a Brett Ratner or Tim Story or Josh Trank as Bryan Singer and if the director turns out to be a loser, the studio won't understand what they should be doing to put the bad director in the right direction.

But if the director turns out to be a winner (like Tim Miller, Matthew Vaughn, or James Mangold), then the studio knows exactly what they are doing which is another reason why the X-men films are still going strong while the Fantastic 4 films continues to fall on its ass.

XMEN have the same basic themes in just about all their films.

They've had the same themes in the cartoons, comic books, and video games. It now depends on how FOX plans to move forward with the series now that Logan is out in theaters.

 

[En Sabah Nur]

Great Super Hero Movies have Great Fight Scenes. This is why Fox has not made one Great X-men movie. Meanwhile Marvel has made at least 5 GREAT Super Hero movies.

What people are not understanding is that anything less than a GREAT movie is a failure. Making a superhero movie without great action is like going to a 2-hand-touch football game. Its not like Tackle. If I want to watch a good movie I'll watch Usual Suspects. If I want to watch a good super hero movie, I'll watch Marvel movies.

X-men movies have been good because its the freaking X-men. Its a super cool storyline to work with. I feel cheated honestly. X-men were my favorite thing about comics and marvel back in the day. Its sad how far they have fallen below the avengers. I guarantee as soon as Fox and Marvel strike a deal, the X-men movie will surpass all previous super hero movies before it. BET!

 

[Darepool]

If that were true, then the X-men series would be in the same dump as the Fantastic 4 movies but it's not. Maybe, Fox doesn't know how to relate to a family of 4 astronauts who become superheroes after being exposed to cosmic radiation because to them, it sounds like a cheesy rip-off of Flash Gordon. With X-men, Fox has a better understanding of them since the idea of mutants fighting for civil rights is similar to real life issues so they've hit gold with the X-men.

Nah, Lee & Kirby's run was one of the 3 or 4 greatest in comic history. They took the spirit of Jules Verne's limitless imagination to places beyond Flash Gordon imho (also inspired by Verne). Kirby's legacy speaks for itself. Don't be hating on the King and his unparalled vision. Instead go away, back to under your rock.

 

[Darkraid]

I don't get the hate for X-Men Apocalypse.

Its not good. But its not THAT bad.

 

[First Avenger]

They also released Deadpool, Logan, First Class, and Days of Future Past. These successes outweigh their only failure.



Or they'll have 99% chance of kicking Marvel Studious' ass after the recent string of hits.



If that were true, then the X-men series would be in the same dump as the Fantastic 4 movies but it's not. Maybe, Fox doesn't know how to relate to a family of 4 astronauts who become superheroes after being exposed to cosmic radiation because to them, it sounds like a cheesy rip-off of Flash Gordon. With X-men, Fox has a better understanding of them since the idea of mutants fighting for civil rights is similar to real life issues so they've hit gold with the X-men.



But if the director turns out to be a winner (like Tim Miller, Matthew Vaughn, or James Mangold), then the studio knows exactly what they are doing which is another reason why the X-men films are still going strong while the Fantastic 4 films continues to fall on its ass.



They've had the same themes in the cartoons, comic books, and video games. It now depends on how FOX plans to move forward with the series now that Logan is out in theaters.

Apocalypse was Fox's only failure? You must have missed the Three F4 movies,X3,Origins,Daredevil,Elektra...we get good movies when the right creative team works on the right movie but as far as CBMs go Fox is the definition of hit and miss. Still better than Warner though.

 

[Zant]

I feel the likely way FF goes back to Marvel is if FOX gets too distracted with the growing list of Xmen stuff they are developing and by the time they turn their attention to FF, 5/6 years would have passed and it would be too late. FOX juggling multiple CBM franchises is new to them

 

[Another_Fool]

Great Super Hero Movies have Great Fight Scenes. This is why Fox has not made one Great X-men movie. Meanwhile Marvel has made at least 5 GREAT Super Hero movies.

What people are not understanding is that anything less than a GREAT movie is a failure. Making a superhero movie without great action is like going to a 2-hand-touch football game. Its not like Tackle. If I want to watch a good movie I'll watch Usual Suspects. If I want to watch a good super hero movie, I'll watch Marvel movies.

X-men movies have been good because its the freaking X-men. Its a super cool storyline to work with. I feel cheated honestly. X-men were my favorite thing about comics and marvel back in the day. Its sad how far they have fallen below the avengers. I guarantee as soon as Fox and Marvel strike a deal, the X-men movie will surpass all previous super hero movies before it. BET!

I can't tell if you're trolling the concept behind this thread or if you're serious.

 

[The Overlord]

I don't know about that. People will still watch the prequels, even begrudgingly since even though parts of them were awful, there were still cool elements to be found.

Meanwhile most of the X films just have not aged well. X3 and Origins: Wolverine are just unwatchable by pretty much anyone. The rest of the world have left the X films behind. They can still put out a solid hit here and there, but the X-Men are nowhere near the Phenom they once were. That space in pop culture is now occupied by Marvel and The Avengers.

Fox is in many ways the X-Men's worst enemy. If they were to relinquish the movie rights back to Marvel there would likely be an X-Men Renaissance. Sure there would be fewer films (if any), but they'd be widely available in virtually every other form of media again.

People remember the prequels to complain about them, I think Phantom Menace is more loathed then any X-men film.

I think Deadpool has made a big pop culture impact and again I do not think Marvel would not make films like Logan and Deadpool.

And we are seeing a pop culture resurgence for the X-Men, with the Legion show, a new live action show on Fox and perhaps even a new cartoon.

Really you could argue Marvel has put less emphasis on the X-Men in the early 2000s, but I think that was inevitable, I think the X-Men influence on the rest of Marvel in the 90s a bubble that would burst.

I just hope Fox and Marvel work together to make the X-Men franchise better, but frankly, I have no desire to see the X-Men in the MCU.

 

[En Sabah Nur]

I don't get the hate for X-Men Apocalypse.

Its not good. But its not THAT bad.

BINGO!

I hate it because its not good and it should of been amazing.

 

[UltimatePyro9]

I feel the likely way FF goes back to Marvel is if FOX gets too distracted with the growing list of Xmen stuff they are developing and by the time they turn their attention to FF, 5/6 years would have passed and it would be too late. FOX juggling multiple CBM franchises is new to them

That's how Daredevil was obtained.

 

[En Sabah Nur]

I can't tell if you're trolling the concept behind this thread or if you're serious.

And I am equally dumfounded by this.

 

[InCali]

They also released Deadpool, Logan, First Class, and Days of Future Past. These successes outweigh their only failure.



Or they'll have 99% chance of kicking Marvel Studious' ass after the recent string of hits.

A. You have a very selective memory. There are pluses and minuses to that.

B. LOL.....

 

[Hammer!]

Fox's post X2 rut of Daredevil, Elektra, FF, Silver Surfer, X3, Wolverine 1 is about as brutal as you can get and almost killed Marvel on film if MCU didn't save the day. MCU might not have made DP or Logan, but they've made plenty of films as good and better than those two and have yet to make a movie anywhere near the quality of the six consecutive films I mentioned above.

Not to mention Fox also made Fan4stic, which rivals most if not all of them on the garbage-meter.

 

[Dasher10]

What if Marvel wind up doing to the Fantastic Four what they did to Iron Fist?

 

[Hammer!]

What if Marvel wind up doing to the Fantastic Four what they did to Iron Fist?

Because it would be a movie, and Jeph Loeb wouldn't be anywhere near it. Annnnnnnd Iron Fist is almost certainly better than the four films we've got from Fox. At least the people behind IF wanted to make it.

 

[Zarex]

What if Marvel wind up doing to the Fantastic Four what they did to Iron Fist?

Marvel Television wouldn't be handling the FF.

 

[Zarex]

BO.com's long range forecast came out with its initial estimates for GOTG - $160M opening weekend and a massive $400M domestic total. Hopefully we'll be seeing those kind of numbers from the FF in a few years.

Will the poster who gave FOX a "99% chance of kicking Marvel Studious' ass after the recent string of hits." please show his work?

 

[Hammer!]

BO.com's long range forecast came out with its initial estimates for GOTG - $160M opening weekend and a massive $400M domestic total. Hopefully we'll be seeing those kind of numbers from the FF in a few years.

Will the poster who gave FOX a "99% chance of kicking Marvel Studious' ass after the recent string of hits." (like Logan, and let me get back to you) please show his work?

What's the estimated WW? Or is that not out yet? You gotta think it would make a bill if it got $400 mill in America given the usual 40/60 DOM-WW split.

 

[Another_Fool]

And I am equally dumfounded by this.

Well the post I quoted from you seemed like something someone would say to mock people in this thread. I don't mean it as an insult or anything. Your post pretty much sounded like you're saying people just need great fights for it to be a great superhero movie and that's it. Who cares about a good story if you only have good fights. In essence you're applying Michael Bay logic: Just put up great fights to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Maybe that's not what you meant but it just sounded a little off the way it was articulated.