The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 9

[Willie Lumpkin]

This is madness. A guy made of pure rock and a dude flying around on fire in the 60's would still be talked about in the present day MCU. Who would forget some **** like that!

Not being mentioned in a movie doesn't mean something was forgotten.

Did they forget about Michael Jackson?
Did they forget about OJ Simpson and the low-Speed Bronco Chase?
Did they forget Yuri Gagarin was the first man in space?
Did they forget about the Korean War?
Did they forget about prohibition?
Did they forget the Earth rotates around the sun?
Did they forget the square root of 4 is +/- 2?

Or did they just not mention the 100 million well-known things that they knew about but didn't mention because the topic didn't come up in conversation?

 

[Lilbaz]

Not being mentioned in a movie doesn't mean something was forgotten.

Did they forget about Michael Jackson?
Did they forget about OJ Simpson and the low-Speed Bronco Chase?
Did they forget Yuri Gagarin was the first man in space?
Did they forget about the Korean War?
Did they forget about prohibition?
Did they forget the Earth rotates around the sun?
Did they forget the square root of 4 is +/- 2?

Or did they just not mention the 100 million well-known things that they knew about but didn't mention because the topic didn't come up in conversation?

Think it's more that stark and that act (and say) that new york changed everything. That this was our first encounter with aliens and changed our view of our place in the universe and how vulnerable we are. Needing superheroes to protect us.
If the fantastic 4 had been battling aliens and other threats in the 60's then this wouldn't be the case.

 

[Docker2.0]

Think it's more that stark and that act (and say) that new york changed everything. That this was our first encounter with aliens and changed our view of our place in the universe and how vulnerable we are. Needing superheroes to protect us.
If the fantastic 4 had been battling aliens and other threats in the 60's then this wouldn't be the case.

Not to mention Fury's line that started the whole thing: "You think you are the only superhero in the world?" Wouldn't mean much would it? Especially superheroes of the F4 status.

 

[Dark Raven]

Not to mention Fury's line that started the whole thing: "You think you are the only superhero in the world?" Wouldn't mean much would it? Especially superheroes of the F4 status.

It could refer to Stark's ego. He still could think he's the only superhero in the world even now.

 

[VenomsMom]

Not being mentioned in a movie doesn't mean something was forgotten.

Did they forget about Michael Jackson?
Did they forget about OJ Simpson and the low-Speed Bronco Chase?
Did they forget Yuri Gagarin was the first man in space?
Did they forget about the Korean War?
Did they forget about prohibition?
Did they forget the Earth rotates around the sun?
Did they forget the square root of 4 is +/- 2?

Or did they just not mention the 100 million well-known things that they knew about but didn't mention because the topic didn't come up in conversation?

What does Thriller have to do with anything? There was a Hulk like man made of rock saving the world in the 60's. They would totally reference that since it relates to superheroes reuniting again doing the same thing. It means the Avengers would not have been the first.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Think it's more that stark and that act (and say) that new york changed everything. That this was our first encounter with aliens and changed our view of our place in the universe and how vulnerable we are. Needing superheroes to protect us.
If the fantastic 4 had been battling aliens and other threats in the 60's then this wouldn't be the case.

Not to mention Fury's line that started the whole thing: "You think you are the only superhero in the world?" Wouldn't mean much would it? Especially superheroes of the F4 status.

These are both good points, but I don't think they're conclusive. I have thought that the FF might be limited in their ability to publicly fight aliens because of the apparent implication that aliens have never visited the Earth before. But that wouldn't preclude the FF, just public battles with aliens.

As for Fury's line, I don't think anything can be meaningfully inferred by that. If the FF had come and gone 50 years ago, Stark may have thought he was the only superhero in the world. Captain America was known, right? So clearly Fury wasn't implying no other superheroes had ever existed.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

What does Thriller have to do with anything? There was a Hulk like man made of rock saving the world in the 60's. They would totally reference that since it relates to superheroes reuniting again doing the same thing. It means the Avengers would not have been the first.

When? How? Give me the specific moment that a character would have "totally" referenced the FF.

I don't know of any moments in which a reference to the FF would be unavoidable (that doesn't mean there weren't any, I just can't identify them and that's why I'm asking).

It might seem logical that the moon landing and our space program might have also been referenced when people were talking about aliens. Or 1000 other similar things that were just never mentioned.

If there had been a specific mention that nobody like the FF had ever existed, that would be meaningful, but we have no such mention.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

And that is more true than ever in this case in which we have only a very tiny, anecdotal window in which we've observed the interactions of these characters for just a few hours.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

So basically your willing to almost entirely change the Fantastic Four just so that they can be in the 60s ?

Taking away the celebrity aspect of the team
Taking away them interacting with the modern heroes

Might as well let FOX do it this would be MCU Fantastic Four once so ever in fact I would say these changes would be worse than the Homecoming ones

You really don't get it, do you? First off, what I want has nothing to do with the facts of the situation. If it were up to me, would I set the film in the '60s? NO! How many times do I have to say it?

Is there anything in the MCU films that precludes the FF from being a celebrity team in the 1960's? Not that I, or anyone else here has been able to identify.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Yet you keep coming up with ideas to put them in the 60s

You say your against it / wouldnt do it but you are acting like the opposite of against it

You are saying one thing but what you are posting says another

If you are against putting them in the 60s why are you coming up with ideas of putting them in the 60s ?

I'm not "coming up with ideas of putting them in the 60s". What story-lines have I proposed or advocated? All I'm saying is they could be done in the '60s. There are no specific, logistical barriers that would prevent it. And if they did it there would be intriguing possibilities for stylistic elements that wouldn't be possible in a modern film. That's all I'm saying now and that's all I've ever said.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Let FOX do it & why wouldnt it be possible in a modern film ? These are Comic Book movies the definition of impossible & these are not documentaries or based on real life

If they do a modern film, it should be a film that uses modern technology, modern clothing, modern cars etc. You can't lift the Kirby images off the page and slap those images into modern times. You can't have Reed Richards wearing a coat and hat and smoking a pipe in 2017 without looking ridiculous.

You could create a film that was inspired by the Kirby images in modern times, but if you use them as direct and literal production design, it will only work in a retro setting that matches the era in which they were drawn.

In my opinion.

 

[DyfeddRex]

If they do a modern film, it should be a film that uses modern technology, modern clothing, modern cars etc. You can't lift the Kirby images off the page and slap those images into modern times. You can't have Reed Richards wearing a coat and hat and smoking a pipe in 2017 without looking ridiculous.

You could create a film that was inspired by the Kirby images in modern times, but if you use them as direct and literal production design, it will only work in a retro setting that matches the era in which they were drawn.

In my opinion.

Unfortunately, Disney nixed the pipe with that new edict of "No smoking portrayed in any Disney movie" which includes the MCU/Marvel Studios.

Now, as to the images of Kirby, awful lot like a Integrated Circuit Chip in their design, in some cases, so might be workable.

A more connected approach might be a 80's reboot, where Reed and Stark were roomies at MIT, friendly rivals, with Doom there as a fellow rival, not so friendly, but known to them, and Sue a center of a three-way bid for her affections. Would also better explain the falling out between Howard and Tony, if the spaceship of the origin story was Reed's, and used as an interceptor during that Antman crisis with the Chechen missile launch, say the one that Antman and the Wasp took out was the only one missed in transit by the ship, which had to unleash its space drive to escape on that went off up in space. If the drive were a sub-luminal one, the time difference would be explained by the time distortion their speed would cause, until Reed fixed the ship enough to begin braking maneuvers due to damage from using it before it was finished?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

, and Sue a center of a three-way bid for her affections.

No offense, but please no romantic connections to Sue, even vaguely implied, unless it's Sub-Mariner.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Now, as to the images of Kirby, awful lot like a Integrated Circuit Chip in their design, in some cases, so might be workable.

Yeah, I'm all for using Kirby images as much as possible in whatever they do. I just think the intriguing part of a retro film would be how close you could get to the entire world Kirby drew.

If they do a retro film without doing that, I wouldn't know what the point was.

 

[Zarex]

I'm with you Willie. I am perfectly fine with the FF in the MCU whether they are in the 60s, the modern day, or FF 3000 featuring their adorable shape shifting alien pal, Gleezelshnorp. For those who have absolutely no clue why we are having this discussion - on a message board, of all places! - is because there is a very strong chance that Marvel Studios will go with a retro version.

Peyton Reed pitched a 60s version to FOX before he was replaced by Tim Story. He is an enormous FF fan and he is a strong candidate for the director's chair after he bailed out Feige and company on Ant Man. If he gets the job a 60s version will be considered.

Also, the FF franchise is in terrible, awful shape and its likely that radical surgery is required before rebooting the franchise for a third time. Sticking them in the present day with a few MCU cameos may not be enough. There needs to be a strong distinction between the new FF and what came prior, and a 60s setting might do the trick.

There are positives and negatives with a retro setting. WE ARE AWARE OF THIS. You are losing the ability to work Johnny and Bruce into the mix, though that can be done with a time jump in future installments. That's a negative. A positive is that you are giving the FF room to shine apart from the modern day MCU - they are not "Avengers Lite" - and giving audiences a look into the history of the MCU we haven't seen.

THE FACT THAT NO CHARACTER IN AN MCU MOVIE OR TV SHOW HAS SAID "HEY, REMEMBER THAT TIME BEFORE I WAS BORN WHEN THERE WAS A TEAM OF ADVENTURERS WITH SUPER POWERS ROAMING AROUND? CRAZY, HUH?" IS NOT AN IMPEDIMENT. OTHERWISE THERE CAN BE NO MAJOR MCU STORIES DATED BETWEEN 1945 AND 2008. WHICH WOULD BE REALLY, REALLY STUPID

 

[VenomsMom]

When? How? Give me the specific moment that a character would have "totally" referenced the FF.

I don't know of any moments in which a reference to the FF would be unavoidable (that doesn't mean there weren't any, I just can't identify them and that's why I'm asking).

It might seem logical that the moon landing and our space program might have also been referenced when people were talking about aliens. Or 1000 other similar things that were just never mentioned.

If there had been a specific mention that nobody like the FF had ever existed, that would be meaningful, but we have no such mention.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

And that is more true than ever in this case in which we have only a very tiny, anecdotal window in which we've observed the interactions of these characters for just a few hours.

I say this because FF are unique superheroes just like Avengers. They not tech based or above average human like Cap. They do unique things in the world like Avengers. And no secret identity like Avengers. You can not ignore the fact a man made of pure rock wrecked NY fighting monsters if he existed. If all that happened before Nick Fury would have mentioned it

 

[Lilbaz]

It would be strange for marvel to do it in the sixties for two reasons.
1/ many fans are against it (as this thread shows).
2/ to make the reboot a success and show the ga that this is marvel and not fox they will need a crossover with a famous character from the mcu. Just as they've done with spidey.

Have reed be a fan of the 60's if you want and have his inventions and style reflect that.
Legion is a massive success and manages to get away with mixing up styles of different eras. Ff could too.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I say this because FF are unique superheroes just like Avengers. They not tech based or above average human like Cap. They do unique things in the world like Avengers. And no secret identity like Avengers. You can not ignore the fact a man made of pure rock wrecked NY fighting monsters if he existed. If all that happened before Nick Fury would have mentioned it

Everybody knows about them. They're just a fact of life, like the moon landing. There's no reason to say: "Hey, you remember that moon landing?"

But I'm open-minded and willing to listen. Just give me the specific moment that you think a mention would be unavoidable.

 

[Zarex]

I say this because FF are unique superheroes just like Avengers. They not tech based or above average human like Cap. They do unique things in the world like Avengers. And no secret identity like Avengers. You can not ignore the fact a man made of pure rock wrecked NY fighting monsters if he existed. If all that happened before Nick Fury would have mentioned it

There is no reason for anybody in the MCU films to reference a team of super powered adventurers that operated half a century ago. But let's say for s&g that Nick and Fury DID have a detailed discussion of the Fantastic Four when they were discussing the Avengers Initiative in Iron Man 2. But it was cut because America needed a lot more Mickey Rourke.

 

[Zarex]

It would be strange for marvel to do it in the sixties for two reasons.
1/ many fans are against it (as this thread shows).
2/ to make the reboot a success and show the ga that this is marvel and not fox they will need a crossover with a famous character from the mcu. Just as they've done with spidey.

Fans are fickle, but they will jump on board if it looks good. My preference is for a retro reboot, but I will be first in line for a ticket to see a modern era FF film if they decide to go that route.

And it would indeed be strange for Marvel to do it in the 60s. But strange may be exactly what they need to do given the failures of the first three FF films. And this doesn't preclude crossovers. Lots of great characters - Nick, Hank, Janet, Peggy, Howard, T'Chaka, Dum Dum to name a few - are alive in the swinging 60s.

 

[VenomsMom]

There is no reason for anybody in the MCU films to reference a team of super powered adventurers that operated half a century ago. But let's say for s&g that Nick and Fury DID have a detailed discussion of the Fantastic Four when they were discussing the Avengers Initiative in Iron Man 2. But it was cut because America needed a lot more Mickey Rourke.

Don't worry they can mention it when the rights revert back and force them into the convo and pretend they existed. Then you can have your cake.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Fans are fickle, but they will jump on board if it looks good.

This is the trick. A great director with a great script and an appropriate budget could make a great film in current times or in the '60s.

But a retro film is also much riskier and needs someone who has a real vision of what they want to do.

Marvel has earned my faith and I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt with whatever they do... up until the point things really look ugly - like they did very early with Fant4stic.

But if I were Marvel management, I would only even consider a retro film if I had a HUGE amount of faith in the director and his/her vision.

 

[Dark Raven]

You guys realize you are hypocrites right ?

You likely whined about any change FOX did yet are willing to let MARVEL completely change the Fantastic Four in almost every day even more so than FOX's latest attempt

Yes, we are all hypocrites here except for you. Don't you know we are all secretly the FFINO defenders just like Hydra infiltrated SHIELD?

 

[Zarex]

You guys realize you are hypocrites right ?

You likely whined about any change FOX did yet are willing to let MARVEL completely change the Fantastic Four in almost every day even more so than FOX's latest attempt

You realize we are trying to have a conversation about the FF in the MCU but keep getting interrupted by a poster who is making a lot of multiple posts but adding nothing to the discussion?

Are you a banned poster operating under a new name? We see that a lot with guys with low post counts that are aggressive, insulting and generally inconsequential. I saw you pulling this crap over on the X-boards.

 

[Lilbaz]

Fans are fickle, but they will jump on board if it looks good. My preference is for a retro reboot, but I will be first in line for a ticket to see a modern era FF film if they decide to go that route.

And it would indeed be strange for Marvel to do it in the 60s. But strange may be exactly what they need to do given the failures of the first three FF films. And this doesn't preclude crossovers. Lots of great characters - Nick, Hank, Janet, Peggy, Howard, T'Chaka, Dum Dum to name a few - are alive in the swinging 60s.

There aren't that many ff fans out there. Especially outside of america.
All the majority of film goers know about the ff are the films which haven't been great.
You have to change their mindset to get them to go and watch another film and let them know this is mcu ff not fox ff. The easiest way is to have a popular character from the mcu appear in the film or them to appear in a popular characters film.
The best bet would be to have them turn up in avengers.
The characters you mention wont put bums on seats. That's why agent carter didn't get a third season.

 

[Bearzooka]

Let FOX do it