The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 9

[InCali]

Well if you want the Fantastic Four in the 60s you guys have gotta be able to explain stuff like this & huh so basically you wanna Game Of Thrones Doom ? What the hell ? As Game Of Thrones is doing something similar with one of its characters hiding their real age through magic

HELL ****ING NO

Thank god none of us are writers

I'll drink to that.....or anything else.

 

[Spiderine]

Think it's more that stark and that act (and say) that new york changed everything. That this was our first encounter with aliens and changed our view of our place in the universe and how vulnerable we are. Needing superheroes to protect us.
If the fantastic 4 had been battling aliens and other threats in the 60's then this wouldn't be the case.

This about sums it up.

 

[Spiderine]

There aren't that many ff fans out there. Especially outside of america.
All the majority of film goers know about the ff are the films which haven't been great.
You have to change their mindset to get them to go and watch another film and let them know this is mcu ff not fox ff. The easiest way is to have a popular character from the mcu appear in the film or them to appear in a popular characters film.
The best bet would be to have them turn up in avengers.
The characters you mention wont put bums on seats. That's why agent carter didn't get a third season.

Good point. They have no choice but to piggyback off of other popular MCU characters to make this thing fly.

 

[InCali]

Good point. They have no choice but to piggyback off of other popular MCU characters to make this thing fly.

You mean like Guardians of the Galaxy? Major players like BP?? Or Ant-Man? Or Captain Marvel? Sorry, I don't quite buy that.

Even when Iron Man was introduced, he was FAR from a "popular" comic book character. Not obscure, but certainly a B or C lister. If Marvel didn't outright "make" the characters popular, they certainly dramatically increased their popularity.

 

[Spiderine]

You mean like Guardians of the Galaxy? Major players like BP?? Or Ant-Man? Or Captain Marvel? Sorry, I don't quite buy that.

Even when Iron Man was introduced, he was FAR from a "popular" comic book character. Not obscure, but certainly a B or C lister. If Marvel didn't outright "make" the characters popular, they certainly dramatically increased their popularity.

Was Iron man rebooted several times coming off disastrous films? Not a single popular film in the FF series unlike Spidey. So YES they need serious help.

 

[NotNickFury]

Was Iron man rebooted several times coming off disastrous films? Not a single popular film in the FF series like Spidey. So YES they need serious help.

Well......the Roger Corman one is at least infamous.

That's about all I've got to say about it, though.

 

[Dark Raven]

Well......the Roger Corman one is at least infamous.

That's about all I've got to say about it, though.

Fan4stic is probably now more infamous than the Corman movie.

 

[InCali]

Was Iron man rebooted several times coming off disastrous films? Not a single popular film in the FF series unlike Spidey. So YES they need serious help.

Those were not made and marketed by Marvel. IM is popular now BECAUSE of the treatment the character got (well, having RDJ helped). If you want to discuss disasters, look at early CA before MCU. That (I should say "those were") was a real winner(s)....

No, I think if Marvel got FF, they could do just fine with it and wouldn't necessarily "need" other MCU characters. I'm not saying it wouldn't help, but they wouldn't be necessary for a successful FF play.

 

[Spiderine]

Those were not made and marketed by Marvel. IM is popular now BECAUSE of the treatment the character got (well, having RDJ helped). If you want to discuss disasters, look at early CA before MCU. That was a real winner....

No, I think if Marvel got FF, they could do just fine with it and wouldn't necessarily "need" other MCU characters. I'm not saying it wouldn't help, but they wouldn't be necessary for a successful FF play.

I dont think you understand what Im saying here. Its my belief when Marvel introduces them it will either be in another Marvel film or have other MCU heroes in their film. I believe its necessary to sell another FF reboot to the audience. Thats all im saying. If u disagree then fine. Thats my opinion.

 

[InCali]

I dont think you understand what Im saying here. Its my belief when Marvel introduces them it will either be in anothet Marvel film ot have other MCU heroes in their film. I believe its necessaryto sell another FF reboot to the audience. Thats all im saying. If u disagree then fine. Thats my opinion.

They may do as you say, but I don't think it necessary. We'll never know for sure because you can't do both and compare their success or lack thereof.

You pointed to disastrous origin stories as, at least "a" reason it wouldn't work and made the point that IM didn't have such. I made the point that CA did and he's now a "popular" character; so it "can" be done in MCU. Whether it will be done or attempted remains to be seen.

 

[Spiderine]

They may do as you say, but I don't think it necessary. We'll never know for sure because you can't do both and compare their success or lack thereof.

You pointed to disastrous origin stories as, at least "a" reason it wouldn't work and made the point that IM didn't have such. I made the point that CA did and he's now a "popular" character; so it "can" be done in MCU. Whether it will be done or attempted remains to be seen.

So are you talking about Cap before Avengers? Because there is no doubt it was the ensemble Avengers film that catapulted Him to his current status. The FF failures are too recent. 3 films in the last 12 years. All rejects.

I cant even compare them to Spidey because at least he got a couple of successful films before Sony nuked him. Yet theres Spidey playing with IM

 

[TheVileOne]

Hypothetically they might avoid another Fantastic Four origin entirely like with Spider-Man.

 

[InCali]

So are you talking about Cap before Avengers? Because there is no doubt it was the ensemble Avengers film that catapulted Him to his current status. The FF failures are too recent. 3 films in the last 12 years. All rejects.

I cant even compare them to Spidey because at least he got a couple of successful films before Sony nuked him. Yet theres Spidey playing with IM

TFA did quite well. It certainly wasn't an Avengers type of blockbuster, but it established Cap as a viable, popular CB character. There's no doubt TA catapulted all of them up a notch or two. My point is that it isn't necessarily "necessary" for the FF to be lifted by another "popular" character or characters. By the time Marvel could even make a movie about them, it will most likely be in the early 2020s and the most recent disaster will be old news. For the record, I didn't consider the first, non-Corman, flick a huge disaster and it lead to a second, less well received movie.

Again, I'm not saying they "won't" intro them in another movie or do as you suggest. It's a perfectly viable option. I'm just saying I don't believe it to be "necessary". A well made and marketed FF could stand on it's own. Marvel's brand is VERY strong these days and a lot of trust has been built up with the moviegoing public.

 

[InCali]

Hypothetically they might avoid another Fantastic Four origin entirely like with Spider-Man.

Agreed. That is another viable option....even probable......though I'd love to see Reed, Ben, and Doc in college.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Hypothetically they might avoid another Fantastic Four origin entirely like with Spider-Man.

If they spend more than 5 minutes on their origin in any future films, they're making a mistake.

I don't know why these studios seem so obsessed with origins. Nobody ever read a comic-book so they could read a lengthy origin story. Get to the good stuff.

 

[Spiderine]

TFA did quite well. It certainly wasn't an Avengers type of blockbuster, but it established Cap as a viable, popular CB character. There's no doubt TA catapulted all of them up a notch or two. My point is that it isn't necessarily "necessary" for the FF to be lifted by another "popular" character or characters. By the time Marvel could even make a movie about them, it will most likely be in the early 2020s and the most recent disaster will be old news. For the record, I didn't consider the first, non-Corman, flick a huge disaster and it lead to a second, less well received movie.

Again, I'm not saying they "won't" intro them in another movie or do as you suggest. It's a perfectly viable option. I'm just saying I don't believe it to be "necessary". A well made and marketed FF could stand on it's own. Marvel's brand is VERY strong these days and a lot of trust has been built up with the moviegoing public.

Well I dont think any of these characters had the baggage FF has to overcome. The last film murdered the franchise. A well made film is fine but even Marvel will need to inject someone with recognizable MCU fame to help get the attention of audiences who have given up on it.

You want to make a huge splash immediately. What better way to do that. It helps the franchise get on its feet. Hulk vs Thing tease in the first film would sell itself. Or any variation of the FF meeting MCU characters. The stinch of FFINO would subside quickly.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Well I dont think any of these characters had the baggage FF has to overcome. The last film murdered the franchise. A well made film is fine but even Marvel will need to inject someone with recognizable MCU fame to help get the attention of audiences who have given up on it.

You want to make a huge splash immediately. What better way to do that. It helps the franchise get on its feet. Hulk vs Thing tease in the first film would sell itself. Or any variation of the FF meeting MCU characters. The stinch of FFINO would subside quickly.

It was amazing how just a few minutes of screen-time for Spidey in CW had turned me from "Yech, do I really want another Spidey film?" to "I can't wait for the next Spidey film!"

I don't think you can handle it the same way with FF though, but they could at least get some of the character introduction and boring stuff out of the way and let audiences know who they are so they're ready for a full-blown film.

 

[Spiderine]

It was amazing how just a few minutes of screen-time for Spidey in CW had turned me from "Yech, do I really want another Spidey film?" to "I can't wait for the next Spidey film!"

I don't think you can handle it the same way with FF though, but they could at least get some of the character introduction and boring stuff out of the way and let audiences know who they are so they're ready for a full-blown film.

And this is what Im getting at. U go full blast on this thing. Spidey was revitalized after a series of declining films. Civil war got the excitement back for Spidey. And at least more interest in a third reboot. Without that you got to wonder.

 

[Dark Raven]

If they spend more than 5 minutes on their origin in any future films, they're making a mistake.

I don't know why these studios seem so obsessed with origins. Nobody ever read a comic-book so they could read a lengthy origin story. Get to the good stuff.

Do it either like this:

[YT]sxaBXgaH53w[/YT]

Or like this:

[YT]VcPFSvRc-9k[/YT]

Actually give the FF some opening credits. They're sorely missing in Marvel movies anyway. I don't like the cold open they have now.

 

[Spiderine]

Another thing they can do is give them a small role in another heroes movie

Like say Ant-Man

Hank needs help with a scientific thingy & a friend of Hanks recommends an upcoming scientist in Reed Richards & Reed brings along Ben & Sue for help with an invention or something that Hanks needs & Reed makes a deal saying they will help Hank if Hank funds a mission to space

In an Ant-Man movie give them like 20 minutes of screen time setting up their space adventure & somewhere near the end also meeting Johnny we see the four take off in a shuttle

Simple & not in your face

Simple and effective. Antman, Dr Strange, Captain Marvel, Panther etc. Even Guardians.

Use some established characters to launch the 4 in those sequels and it can help sew the seeds for the FF.

 

[Rorschach2012]

If they spend more than 5 minutes on their origin in any future films, they're making a mistake.

I don't know why these studios seem so obsessed with origins. Nobody ever read a comic-book so they could read a lengthy origin story. Get to the good stuff.

I love origin stories!

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I love origin stories!

You're the one!

 

[Kris.O]

Well i mean the reason they are not doing the origin of spidey is because it's been done to death. They also wanted to take a different approach to what had been done before by keeping spidey in school for awhile and introducing different supporting characters. Now if we take that train of thought and apply it to FF4, we have seen the stupid love triangle approach. We have seen the comedy approach and the edgy dark approach but what we havent seen yet is the actual ff4 origin story. so im confident that if marvel would get the rights back they would try something different aka closer to the comics origin. Reed ben doom in school. Doom beeing the monarch of a sovereign nation possibly setting him up for a larger mcu role etc. Unlike spiderman, We are lucky in a way that the only thing Fox has not tried yet is actually sticking to the source material.

 

[metaphysician]

Why would a retcon be required? There's been no indication that there wasn't a superhero family operating four decades before Tony escaped from a cave.

. . . other than the general lack of any sign that public superheroes were a thing between Cap and Iron Man? The lack of any mention of them in contexts where it would have been relevant? The treatment of Tony Stark as some kind of new thing changing the world totally with his public super science?

 

[metaphysician]

Let's try a hypothetical: In the first Infinity Wars movie the Avengers need a space-ship. Tony Stark is talking to Vision and says: "Back in 1965, Reed Richards proposed an Ion Drive and claimed to have a working prototype."

As Tony is talking, he scrolls through photos that show Reed Richards (in FF uniform) standing next to a large, Kirbyesque device, Reed Richards standing next to Howard Stark, Reed Richards standing next to LBJ etc.

Would audiences have a problem with that? I don't mean people who might say: "I don't like that story. I don't want them to do that." but I mean people who have seen every Marvel film who might say: "Reed Richards and the FF couldn't have existed back then because of X."

Would that be a real, logistical problem in the MCU, and if so, why?

Simple: what you have proposed and established is "Reed Richards existed in the 60s". *NOT* "the Fantastic Four existed in the 60s". It could be used as a mechanism to get the Fantastic Four into the present, by way of phlebotinum, sure. They would still only be the FF in the present, not the 60s.

Put bluntly, if the Fantastic Four are urban legends rather than celebrities, they are not the Fantastic Four.