The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 9

[Zarex]

Why do they only have to exist in the 1960s? Why close off Doom from interacting with all the modern heroes?

Doom controls the wealth of a nation, has access to technologies far beyond that of the world's greatest scientists and is a master of the mystic arts. There's absolutely no reason why Doom can't bedevil MCU heroes for a century or so.

 

[Lilbaz]

Why can't reed design his equipment and lab to look like kirby's vision?
He can wear flares and listen to beetles music if you want.
Doom is the biggest villain in marvel history. Have him scare the whole mcu not just 4 hippies that have powers.

 

[Zarex]

If Doom has been attacking heroes since the 60s it would have been mentioned somewhere along the way it does not work & you want Doom to be an old man once he is actually introduced ?

Why would Doom have been attacking heroes that didn't exist? He's the ruler of a sovereign nation, not a petty thief. And Victor may not be an old man in the present day.....He knows magic, remember?

Doom may have had a run in with Hank and Janet at some point. I smell a new franchise!

MODERN DAY IT IS

Well, I can't argue if you put it in bold letters.

A celebrity team of a super family in the 60s gets powers & fights Doom & saves the world multiple times long before Avengers & suddenly gets forgotten about because they disappear ? Sorry that does not just does not work hell nobody forgot about Captain America the dude became a legend & was remembered for what he did this does not work purely based on Captain America alone

Explain this logic

There's nothing to explain. As Willie has mentioned many, many times, and you are still struggling to understand, lots of stuff happened in the MCU between the 40s and the 21st century that no one has mentioned. Just like in our own world, events took place that could be considered to be earth shattering yet they don't make it into our day to day conversations. And Unlike Cap, the FF are not around. So folks don't sit around talking about them.

As far as we know Thor, Tony, Rhodey, Natasha, Clint, Steve, Bruce and Maria had a long conversation about the FF's adventures back in the 60s before they started trying to pick up the hammer. But it was removed from the final cut.

 

[Zarex]

It does make sense. You're just not getting it.

Outside of easter eggs like the super soldier serum in The Incredible Hulk and the replica shield in Iron Man 2, there was no mention of Captain America in the MCU before his solo appearance. How could that be? How could the world have selectively forgotten that great hero?! It doesn't make a lick of sense!!

Well, they didn't forget. They just didn't talk about a guy who wasn't around. Capiche?

 

[Zarex]

Okay so the Fantastic Four disappear & Doom is still around so

A) Doom is an old man when they return

B) Why would Doom not take over the world just because they are gone ?

Answer these logically

Do I have to?

A) Doom is an extremely wealthy master of science and magic. He could make himself the most well preserved 90 year old in the history of our planet.

B) He tried and was stopped by Hank and Janet. To be seen in the upcoming feature film "Ant-Man & The Wasp Origins: The Wrath of Doom"

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

It does make sense. You're just not getting it.

Outside of easter eggs like the super soldier serum in The Incredible Hulk and the replica shield in Iron Man 2, there was no mention of Captain America in the MCU before his solo appearance. How could that be? How could the world have selectively forgotten that great hero?! It doesn't make a lick of sense!!

Well, they didn't forget. They just didn't talk about a guy who wasn't around. Capiche?

They also forgot all about George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, the Declaration of Independence and the entire Continental Congress.

How could they have forgotten about the people and events that were so key to defining this country?

It's like they never even existed.

 

[Zarex]

They also forgot all about George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, the Declaration of Independence and the entire Continental Congress.

How could they have forgotten about the people and events that were so key to defining this country?

It's like they never even existed.

The memory loss may be due to extreme constipation. I have yet to see an MCU character take a bathroom break.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The memory loss may be due to extreme constipation. I have yet to see an MCU character take a bathroom break.

My God! The even forgot how to poo!

 

[UltimatePyro9]

Personally, I can see the merit of placing the FF in the 60s. They are Marvel's first family and putting them in the 60 would help with that. They could be legends during the decade. Make them more special.

Their final recordings of them could be a battle between Doom where they disappear, and they are teleported to modern day.

 

[Chris B]

I've never been a fan of the idea of a 60's setting either. I mean, part of the appeal of Marvel getting the FF back is being able to see them interact with the other characters. Sure you can use time travel as a means to still make that happen, but that just strikes me as being superfluous and needlessly complicating things.

I guess the idea that maybe they went up into space in the 60's and somehow end up in the present when they return could maybe work, but again, that just strikes me as excessive when their 616 origin can still work for the modern day with a bit of updating.

 

[Lilbaz]

I bet fox could do a great film with them set in the 60's.
Then they wouldn't need to time travel they could stay there.

Everyone happy?

 

[Spiderine]

Well I keep trying to avoid being an advocate of the retro story, but I also don't understand what in the films prevents them from having existed in the past, so I'm willing to discuss that.

Just because they weren't mentioned doesn't mean they didn't exist and weren't major players. (absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)

Just as a mental exercise, think about real, important historical events and figures and think about how often they were referenced in the films.

Was there any specific mention of Neil Armstrong and the moon landing? Was there any specific mention of the the Kennedy assassination? Was there any specific mention of the civil rights movement and the assassination of MLK Jr.? Thomas Jefferson and the Declaration of Independence? The Civil War? Napoleon? Genghis Khan? Julius Caesar and the Roman Empire? Leonardo Da Vinci and the Renaissance? The burning of the library in Alexandria? Etc. Etc. Etc.

There could have been an epic battle between the Fantastic Four and Dr. Doom that nearly resulted in the enslavement of society under Doom's control, but why would that come up in conversation during any of the Marvel films? To the characters in the films, that was just something that happened that everybody knows about like the examples I provided above.

I completely understand the "I don't like the idea." argument. I'm not sold myself. But I don't understand the "It couldn't have happened in the MCU" argument because I just don't see what specific details in the MCU preclude it.

And as I mentioned earlier, I think Marvel may be trying to tell us things like this have been going on with things such as Ant-Man, Coulson's trading cards and a history of characters that span from WWII to present times.

Just for the record I actually love the idea of a 60's FF film if it were a stand alone movie unattached ONLY because it distance itself in a big way from the previous FOX versions. It gives a different look feel and tone and you need this for another reboot scenario. I would be totally cool with that.

Back to the MCU.......the time jumping thing from 60's to present bothers me a lot because several characters already have this story of dealing with the passage of time. Cap is a major character to do it obviously. Peter Quill will be another when he returns to earth having been on adventures thru the cosmos and we may also see Janet Van Dyne in Antman when she gets pulled out.....Maybe......and reunite with Hank and her daughter. I just see another story with the four are dealing with a world that has moved on 50 years since they were on earth where its inhabited by many heroes. Sounds redundant and a bit rehashed. I just don't know

 

[Dark Raven]

Just for the record I actually love the idea of a 60's FF film if it were a stand alone movie unattached ONLY because it distance itself in a big way from the previous FOX versions. It gives a different look feel and tone and you need this for another reboot scenario. I would be totally cool with that.

Back to the MCU.......the time jumping thing from 60's to present bothers me a lot because several characters already have this story of dealing with the passage of time. Cap is a major character to do it obviously. Peter Quill will be another when he returns to earth having been on adventures thru the cosmos and we may also see Janet Van Dyne in Antman when she gets pulled out.....Maybe......and reunite with Hank and her daughter. I just see another story with the four are dealing with a world that has moved on 50 years since they were on earth where its inhabited by many heroes. Sounds redundant and a bit rehashed. I just don't know

Well maybe Sue, Ben and Johnny might feel left behind a bit, but maybe Reed might come into the 21st century and feel that finally they've slightly caught up with his intelligence and scientific development.

If he were so far ahead in the 60s, then he might find the 21st century more normal instead of this backwards world he was living in before. He might think that he already thought of all these scientific breakthroughs 50 to 60 years ago and was working on them, and they're only developing them now.

 

[Spiderine]

Well maybe Sue, Ben and Johnny might feel left behind a bit, but maybe Reed might come into the 21st century and feel that finally they've slightly caught up with his intelligence and scientific development.

If he were so far ahead in the 60s, then he might find the 21st century more normal instead of this backwards world he was living in before. He might think that he already thought of all these scientific breakthroughs 50 to 60 years ago and was working on them, and they're only developing them now.

I just think part of the story dealing with passage of time for a character is the personal and emotional conflict when dealing with a different world than the one they left. The impact of that on Sue Johnny and Ben can't be avoided. Even Reed to an extent and they would need to spend time on that.

You seen GOTG right? The scene when Peter gets upset because Yondu took him from his family was deep and part of his development. He clearly misses the world he was robbed of growing in. I can't wait top see Peter return to earth.

My point is this will be territory already explored with Cap and Peter and maybe even Janet. All three different scenarios but same principle. How would they approach that with FF and give it some emotional impact without covering the same ground by the time FF comes to the MCU present?

 

[Rorschach2012]

But still the fish out of water story is basically a MARVEL repeat story hell even Iron Fist did it recently

Can't the Fantastic Four being the first family of superheroes be enough in the modern day ?

This.

 

[Rorschach2012]

The whole Human Torch/Spidey dynamic gets ruined if Torch is some square, outdated kid from the 60s

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Just for the record I actually love the idea of a 60's FF film if it were a stand alone movie unattached ONLY because it distance itself in a big way from the previous FOX versions. It gives a different look feel and tone and you need this for another reboot scenario. I would be totally cool with that.

Back to the MCU.......the time jumping thing from 60's to present bothers me a lot because several characters already have this story of dealing with the passage of time. Cap is a major character to do it obviously. Peter Quill will be another when he returns to earth having been on adventures thru the cosmos and we may also see Janet Van Dyne in Antman when she gets pulled out.....Maybe......and reunite with Hank and her daughter. I just see another story with the four are dealing with a world that has moved on 50 years since they were on earth where its inhabited by many heroes. Sounds redundant and a bit rehashed. I just don't know

If they do a retro, I'd like to see them really explore it - like a trilogy featuring Moleman, Annihilus and Doom. Then just end it and put them on the shelf. Somebody can bring them back at some later point.

I think one problem with even thinking about these things is there are 100 different stories we'd all like to see, but the scheduling of films means we're going to get far less than we want one way or the other.

 

[Dark Raven]

Well, what if the pre-Fantastic Four are scientists from the 21st century but get stranded in the 1960s with no way back to their own time because the technology is so primitive. So they settle there for a number of years, trying to make the best of their situation and keep a low profile. Then Reed one day discovers a way back home and steals a rocket. But then they are bombarded with cosmic rays after they time jump, and upon their return to their own time in the 21st century, they gain super powers and become the Fantastic Four.

Then there's no problem of them being a fish out of water in the 21st century. They'd only be that for a while in the 60s, but their attempt to get back is what causes the event that gives them their powers.

 

[Dark Raven]

So you want people from the future in the past ? Wouldnt they end up staying low key so that they dont accidentally **** with time somehow ?

Did I not say that? I said they keep a low profile.

And they'd have to actually end up in the 1950s if they were to be there a few years in order to attempt their return in 1962. Unless they are only there for a few months, or since 1960.

 

[Darkraid]

Wouldn't it be fun to make FF time traveling heroes? They can be like the protectors of time. Maybe make their nemesis Kang instead of Doom again.

Never settling on a definite time makes to pretty invisible to the current heroes.

Only popping up when needed.

 

[Spiderine]

The MCU so far has done a good job of keeping things relatively simple. Im not sure Feige would go the route of time travel as it gets a bit messy from a continuity standpoint in a universe built on cohesion. Which is why I wonder how they handle a character like Kang. I would think when Thanos assembles the gauntlet he is going to screw around with a lot of realities and time causing ripples but that should only affect the universe moving forward as oppose to going back in the past.

Hard to answer these questions because I imagine the MCU will be a much different place post infinity war/gauntlet of whatever the 4th film will be.

 

[TheVileOne]

I just don't like a period Fantastic Four because I think it should be setup that the classic lineup should be able to interact with all the heroes in the modern day. IMHO that's the whole point of having them in the MCU.

You know what? Let's do a retro Spider-Man so Peter Parker is only alive as Spider-Man in the 1960s. We'll make Miles Morales his successor in present day. Would've gone over great

 

[Zarex]

Howzabout they do a retro Ant-Man with Scott and Hope taking over for Hank and Janet? Nah, that would never work.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Difference with antman is no time travel to get them in present and they have successors to the originals.

 

[VenomsMom]

This is madness. A guy made of pure rock and a dude flying around on fire in the 60's would still be talked about in the present day MCU. Who would forget some **** like that!