Dark Phoenix The Simon Kinberg Thread - Director, Writer & Producer of Dark Phoenix

[Lip]

Doesn't this sound like a personal attack, too?

JH7.... is actually the guy who makes personal attacks when he's out of points to make. He even got a few posts deleted. He's not really the ideal user to engage in a conversation. Be careful

Let me spell it out for you, because you seem not to grasp this. The movies....are NOT the source material. Film adaptations.....will NOT be verbatim source material. Even the MCU shows this. If you are looking for source material duplication with film, then you will always be disappointed. Ok? I care more about a good MOVIE. Because this is a FILM medium. I'm glad they're going bold and doing something different this time around because Apocalypse was a failure. That's how these comic book films will stay relevant. Changing things up and not losing sight of making a good movie. What works for FILM. I'm surprised you're more upset Kinberg is directing instead of what Bryan Singer has done to these characters on screen when Kinberg himself has actually read the comics. He knows what the source material is.

Changes are required and can be very welcomed in adaptations. Fox has done some very good changes. Quicksilver worked really well in DoFP, although I disliked him in Apocalypse. The thing is that FOX has too many problems when it comes to those adaptations, and after 18 years people ran out of patience.

We all want go movies. We just have different approaches. I want a good ensemble movie, which we haven't gotten since X2. I want a break from characters like Raven and Eric, who already told their stories. I want more room for Scott, Jean, Kurt, Beast and other X-Men to be treated as main characters too. And most of all I don't want to watch beloved characters being screwed over.

But we all want good movies. The change we want is in the heart of the franchise, that should finally be the X-Men.

 

[Cktopl33]

Yeah he knows that source material so well that the main reason why he included Olivia Munn in Apocalypse was because he googled Olivia Munnfan art stuff.

Kinberg said her character came about late in the process of the script development team and wasn't in earlier drafts. He & Singer originally had Xavier to be one of the horsemen. You seem to forget how they decided on her character:

We started talking about who that would be, and just literally looked at the list of different Horsemen over the history of the comics, and Psylocke was the one we thought was the most intriguing. And, ironically, or as fate would have it, I had just met with Olivia Munn about Deadpool - like a week or two before.

Kinberg has to take responsibilities for his action and you put it all on studio politics and the director as if those made him a creative and talent impotent.

Not necessarily all studio politics. But he doesn't control the creative vision of a film unless he assumes role of director. Understand with films such as Apocalypse, this wasn't his own story he was scripting. He was part of a story team with the director at the head. He wrote the script and contributed, but the story was put together as part of a collective and he has to include the ideas and input of the team, director, and studio heads. It's a collective of ideas. Dark Phoenix will be the first time since early in his career where the script is entirely his own and as a director giving him complete creative control. All other films he's worked on have been either as a co-writer or combined with other writers or to rewrite a script, which most screenwriters are hired to do. But whether a film is successful or not "depends much more on what the director and cinematographer are able to accomplish on set (because some scripts are perfectly good reads, but aren't any good on set which is why the role of director is so important), and what the director and producers are able to convince the editor to string together. Directing can certainly make or break a screenplay."

Again, the screenwriter's job is to accomplish the overall creative vision set by the director. Screenwriters usually have to embrace the fact that screenwriting is all about rewriting: "You’re usually allowed one crack at rewriting your second draft and if you haven’t mastered the process, they will fire you and bring in another writer. I’ve been hired several times to work as a script doctor on projects that I did not write. They fired the original writers because they exhausted their ability to effectively make the rewrites from the notes. They will never take any responsibility for missing something in the script or giving notes that generated the issue in the first place. It’s your problem now because you are the writer. They act as if you worked alone on the screenplay without any guidance during the development process. Suck it up, make the changes and get production on schedule again. You must master the rewriting process if you want to stay on a project, work on the set, and eventually see your name in the credits. If you build your reputation as a collaborative team player who can masterfully execute rewrites in development, pre-production and during production, you’ll work again. This discipline is called keeping your eye on the bigger picture." Simple. It's not glamorous. But that's reality in Hollywood. Sometimes those rewrites can lead to a great script. But that won't necessarily equate a great movie when there's bad creative vision. That's likely why Kinberg stated: that he "felt in his gut" that this was the story that he needed to tell once Singer left the franchise, and that his vision for the film was "so clear in my head, emotionally and visually, that it would have killed me to hand this to somebody else to direct".

And caring about the source material is important, as that would translate if the film has respected the source material and if its a good film adaptation.

Adaptation is essentially interpretation. As noted elsewhere: change is essential and practically unavoidable, mandated both by the constraints of time and medium. There can be a balance but that would be dependent on the director. We haven't yet seen Kinberg's vision of the story but he said it's more faithful to the source material than X3. So, well see. He's the director this time and we haven't seen an x-men movie from Kinberg's vision.

 

[Frankeh]

Not necessarily all studio politics. But he doesn't control the creative vision of a film unless he assumes role of director. Understand with films such as Apocalypse, this wasn't his own story he was scripting. He was part of a story team with the director at the head. He wrote the script and contributed, but the story was put together as part of a collective and he has to include the ideas and input of the team, director, and studio heads. It's a collective of ideas.

It still was his job to write a coherent screenplay out of those things and he didn't. It's as simple as that. There are no other screenplay writers credited.

 

[psylockolussus]

Most intriguing and yet they couldn't bother to properly develop her... Great Job!

 

[Frankeh]

I don't take everything they say about her seriously anyway. Remember when Singer said she was the sexual component of the cult of Apocalypse? They'll never outright say "we included this character because we need more popular X-Men to sell tickets".

 

[SumT]

i don't take everything they say about her seriously anyway. Remember when singer said she was the sexual component of the cult of apocalypse? they'll never outright say "we included this character because we need more popular x-men to sell tickets".

B i n g o.

 

[EnDz0n3]

He doesn't have to be immersed in the world of comics. He's read them. But he doesn't have to be a comic expert to make a successful movie. If you feel that nothing about any of the X-Men films suggests a deep knowledge and understanding of the source material....well that shouldn't be shock considering none of those directors have read any of the comics. They're the creative vision behind it.

Kinberg should be celebrated by fans. Why? Because he's read the comics? LOL

You really think Singer didn't read the comics? How would he have known and adapted God Loves Man Kills? Nightcrawler barely showed up in the cartoons yet he was prominently featured in X2. Some people make up the most absurd things sometimes.

More importantly though, having read the comics should not be the barometer that fans use to judge the crew of these films and their level of success because of that. The director of 2003's Daredevil is a massive fan of the comics. Guess what? The movie bombed critically and amongst the fans.

Reading the comics should be job #1 for them...

And I get the point you're trying to make, that you're trying to prove Kinberg is better than Singer because he's supposedly read more comics than Singer and will therefore make a better movie.

As if Kinberg doesn't have a filmography that we can judge already...Oh that's right, coz he was only the writer.

 

[psylockolussus]

Kinberg shouldn't take responsibility for his actions. He didn't direct those films and studio politics yadda yadda.

 

[Cktopl33]

Kinberg should be celebrated by fans. Why? Because he's read the comics? LOL

You really think Singer didn't read the comics? How would he have known and adapted God Loves Man Kills? Nightcrawler barely showed up in the cartoons yet he was prominently featured in X2. Some people make up the most absurd things sometimes.

More importantly though, having read the comics should not be the barometer that fans use to judge the crew of these films and their level of success because of that. The director of 2003's Daredevil is a massive fan of the comics. Guess what? The movie bombed critically and amongst the fans.

Reading the comics should be job #1 for them...

And I get the point you're trying to make, that you're trying to prove Kinberg is better than Singer because he's supposedly read more comics than Singer and will therefore make a better movie.

As if Kinberg doesn't have a filmography that we can judge already...Oh that's right, coz he was only the writer.

Celebrated by fans? No one can celebrate anything yet because the movie hasn't come out. It's the fans who are constantly bringing up the comics in regard to the director and x-men movies, so talk to them. I'm not using it as a barometer. I already know film comic book adaptations won't follow the comics exactly. Kinberg should be judged based on his directing ability on the film.

Singer himself said he never read the comics. I'm sure he did research as far as filming is concern, like you do for any upcoming movie you are going to shoot, because the subject is x-men. But he was not immersed in the lore fans would expect. Part of the problems with X3 wasn't simply that it didn't follow the comic, but that it wasn't directed that well. It could have still been a great movie even if it didn't track the comic if only it had better creative vision.

My point is the last film by Singer was poorly made (his filmography is full of good and not so good films). Now it's Kinberg's chance to showcase his vision for the franchise.

 

[Cktopl33]

It still was his job to write a coherent screenplay out of those things and he didn't. It's as simple as that. There are no other screenplay writers credited.

You don't understand how the credited system work. Just because other writers don't appear as the credited screenwriter doesn't mean their ideas didn't end up into the script. There is usually only one or two screenwriters credited, but a script could actually have involved up to 20 different screenwriters in its lifespan. And its not simply a matter of writing a coherent script. Sometimes you just have to rewrite a script based on the notes given, even if things make no sense. That's their job. If they don't do it, they're fired and someone replaces them to make the wanted rewrites. Again, the screenwriters aren't the star players. Those higher up call the shots and can change a script at will even to its detriment. Many screenwriters have expressed frustration with this because they have no say over it.

Remember in Screenwriting 101: "If you are interested in becoming a screenwriter, one of the most important things to ask yourself is if you’re willing to give other artists a substantial say in the way your story is told. Executives, producers, and directors will give notes. The director and DP will determine how the film is shot. The costumer and art department will design the look of film. The actors will create their interpretations of your characters. When you write a screenplay, you have to be okay with “my story” eventually turning into “our story.” In fact, that’s the goal. This can be a jarring reality for someone who is just getting into the craft… especially someone who might be coming into it with the mindset of a novelist where the project is exclusively about your vision from beginning to end."

 

[Cktopl33]

Kinberg shouldn't take responsibility for his actions. He didn't direct those films and studio politics yadda yadda.

Kinberg should take responsibility for the movies he's directed. Just like other directors should take responsibility for the movies they've directed. Simple. Since he wasn't the only writer on these x-men movies until now, Dark Phoenix is the perfect movie to judge his work with because he control the creative decisions as well as being the sole writer for the film. Spells it out pretty clearly......

 

[Spider-Fan]

Stop bickering guys! This happens way too much in here and I have made ample warnings here in the past few weeks. I will be deep diving this thread when I get home tonight, and I will issue infractions as I see fit. You guys need to learn civility, or alternately, to stop posting when you feel you cannot be civil. Either way, the continued derailing and bickering is unacceptable, and there will be change.

EDIT - Cleansing is done for now. But you guys seriously have to stop. Next time I have to do anything like this, I'm going to start treating it with zero tolerance. I don't want to be the bad guy here, but I'm being left with little choice. Please be civil in the future. I don't want to put people on probation or issue mass infractions, but if you guys force me to do it to drive home the point, I will.

 

[Schmith]

I have hope for this movie because I think that Kinberg knows that if he want to keep working as a director he needs to deliver at least something. If he is smart he will collect talent around himself. He should know by know that he is a bad screenwriter (at least watching his own movies will give him an idea how bad he is).

But he is very much capable to facilitate talent in my eyes. I think he is a great producer and directing a movie is also about choosing the right creative team supporting his vision. Let's hope he is not totally delusional and gets the help he needs (ghostwriters included...).

 

[Erik Lensherr]

 

[JP]

THE TAG LINE. hahahahahaha

 

[Erik Lensherr]

Chastain and Kinberg in Disneyland

 

[EnDz0n3]

THE TAG LINE. hahahahahaha

Yea I don’t think that was the point of posting that here LOL Probably just saw the Love, Simon part and ran with it.

 

[Avenging Angel]

THE TAG LINE. hahahahahaha

But what if he gets it right this time?

 

[psylockolussus]

Well Fox loves Simon.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

 

[psylockolussus]

I can't wait to see how that spy thriller turns out! The next Sucker Punch!

 

[x-er]

fan bingbing is in what now? her character really stands out both in the movie and on the show (although the latter's played by jamie chung) I've liked them both

 

[psylockolussus]

They could have brought her back for another movie but you know... Go back to the past because its much more eXciting!

 

[Tymminator]

fan bingbing is in what now? her character really stands out both in the movie and on the show (although the latter's played by jamie chung) I've liked them both

I didn’t know she was in Dark Phoenix. Is she? Or is she in Kinberg’s other movie?

 

[Erik Lensherr]

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