The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR Batsuit Discussion Thread

[RustyCage]

@ Dave: Begins had many visible fights. There were a couple of scenes where he was meant to be quick and mysterious, or a whirlwind of rage, as character moments, that's all. Every time he fights Ra's you can see what's going on.

The choreography was far superior in Begins though, even if you didn't like the camera editing. In TDK it looks plodding and staged by comparison, with exceptions. Personally, I find passionate, believable fight scenes way more entertaining than a guy that looks like he's just going through the motions, repeating a waltz.

Speaking of, I also find the focus on Keysi to be painfully ironic, as Ra's mocked Bruce's reliance on style and taught him to transcend it. How could the filmmakers ignore that? It's a very important concept that reflects his growth, his ability to learn, adapt, and not be confined. It was a psychological step in his transformation into Batman. -- But I digress. I've gone on a tangent and forgotten why I was replying to you.

Wait a sec, how did this discussion get in the suit thread?

 

[Lone]

Then why is Nolan going to use to a new one in TDKR?

To sell toys of course.

 

[Saint]

@ Dave: Begins had many visible fights. There were a couple of scenes where he was meant to be quick and mysterious, or a whirlwind of rage, as character moments, that's all. Every time he fights Ra's you can see what's going on.

The choreography was far superior in Begins though, even if you didn't like the camera editing. In TDK it looks plodding and staged by comparison, with exceptions. Personally, I find passionate, believable fight scenes way more entertaining than a guy that looks like he's just going through the motions, repeating a waltz.

Speaking of, I also find the focus on Keysi to be painfully ironic, as Ra's mocked Bruce's reliance on style and taught him to transcend it. How could the filmmakers ignore that? It's a very important concept that reflects his growth, his ability to learn, adapt, and not be confined. It was a psychological step in his transformation into Batman. -- But I digress. I've gone on a tangent and forgotten why I was replying to you.

Wait a sec, how did this discussion get in the suit thread?

On the Begins DVD, they said they chose Keysi because it's adaptable, and because they thought it looked like something Bruce could have developed himself after having trained in all these different fighting styles.

As for the fights in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, well--the in-costume fights are shot differently, but I don't really think one approach is really better than the other. They both have strengths and weaknesses.

More interesting, I think, is the difference between the in-costume fights and the out-of-costume fights. You never see anyone complain about Bruce brawling in prison, or battling at the ninja enclave. Maybe he need to see a little more of whatever made those fights work.

 

[Travesty]

More interesting, I think, is the difference between the in-costume fights and the out-of-costume fights. You never see anyone complain about Bruce brawling in prison, or battling at the ninja enclave. Maybe he need to see a little more of whatever made those fights work.

When he was in prison, he hadn't even trained with Ras yet, so his fighting was sporadic by knocking things over to get people off of him, and lifting people over his head to get them off. It wasn't his Keysi style yet, and looked more like a bar room brawl. As for the ninja training, he was using a sword, so he wasn't using his regular Keysi fight style, as he had a weapon....

 

[Saint]

When he was in prison, he hadn't even trained with Ras yet, so his fighting was sporadic by knocking things over to get people off of him, to lifting people over his head to get them off. It wasn't his Keysi style yet, and looked more like a bar room brawl. As for the ninja training, he was using a sword, so he wasn't using his regular Keysi fight style, as he had a weapon....

Yes, I know. I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[Travesty]

Yes, I know. I'm not sure what your point is.

Because that's the reason why it looks different. After he gets in the suit, his fighting style has changed, and he doesn't use a sword. That's the reason why people may not complain, because it's obviously different, and not using Keysi during the scenes you were questioning.

 

[Saint]

Because that's the reason why it looks different. After he gets in the suit, his fighting style has changed, and he doesn't use a sword. That's the reason why people may not complain, because it's obviously different, and not using Keysi during the scenes you were questioning.

That's not really the difference I'm talking about; I'm referring to the way the scenes are shot. I'm sure the fact that he's not using Keysi makes a difference for people who don't like Keysi, though.

I think part of the difference is that in those scenes Nolan isn't trying to hide the action, which is something does when Bruce is in the suit (in Begins, anyway--not so much in TDK). Other factors may be that the black suit and cape can become visually confusing in the dark and in those tight shots. I imagine the avoiding shots where the Begins suit might look dopey was also a factor.

 

[DaveMoral]

@ Dave: Begins had many visible fights. There were a couple of scenes where he was meant to be quick and mysterious, or a whirlwind of rage, as character moments, that's all. Every time he fights Ra's you can see what's going on.

The choreography was far superior in Begins though, even if you didn't like the camera editing. In TDK it looks plodding and staged by comparison, with exceptions. Personally, I find passionate, believable fight scenes way more entertaining than a guy that looks like he's just going through the motions, repeating a waltz.

Speaking of, I also find the focus on Keysi to be painfully ironic, as Ra's mocked Bruce's reliance on style and taught him to transcend it. How could the filmmakers ignore that? It's a very important concept that reflects his growth, his ability to learn, adapt, and not be confined. It was a psychological step in his transformation into Batman. -- But I digress. I've gone on a tangent and forgotten why I was replying to you.

Wait a sec, how did this discussion get in the suit thread?

The only in-costume fight that's very clear and well lit at all is teh Ra's fight on the monorail, and it's a fantastic fight scene. The prison brawl I liked, the training stuff I liked, but for the most part the in-costume fights are black blurs.

The focus on Keysi is only ironic if Keysi is a style that exists within the universe of Batman and it's something he would have been taught. The idea is that Bruce has developed this himself, and probably even more specifically, developed it to work specifically with the suit restrictions he's forced himself to work with. Cowl, cape, heavy body armor, etc. I could see them adapting the style a little more for costuming reasons, actually. That's where it comes in play with the Bat-suit thread actually. The fighting style, I think, works well with the restrictions we are talking about with the suit. There are less with the TDK suit but it's still restrictive I'm sure with peripheral vision, the weight, and of course the cumbersome cape.

However, I do think Keysi is a style that's not super concerned with defense as it's pretty aggressive and almost always on the offensive. The idea, I guess, is to get in there and overwhelm the opponent and quickly make the fight on your terms not the opponent's. Which is what Batman is really about, right? Relative lack of defense works with the BB suit, it's fully armored... stops bullets and knives. Natch! TDK suit is more vulnerable to guns and knives though. In the case of h2h combat it's the knives he's really gotta be concerned with. So modifying the style to take that into account more might be suitable... but I don't think we'll see anything drastically change. It's a sensible fighting style for what's the director is trying to communicate about Batman and for the restrictions of the costume they are using.

 

[Mister Meddle]

I know, I know.... I strongly doubt they're going to change the mask but man I'd kill to see this:

Changes:

Pointy ears.

Thicker neck guard so his bubbly head won't look so awkward.

Attached the cape to his neck for a couple reasons. One, it's more comic-accurate. Two, it hides the awkward collar.

Slightly changed the design by the eyes so it gives him a meaner look.

Opened the mouth area a tad more.

This one is just for fun:

Credit to poster Bane for original manip.

 

[Boom]

Those ears are perfect.

 

[Travesty]

Yup, I like the ears, too. Hate the legs still(not your fault).

 

[Mister Meddle]

Yup, I like the ears, too. Hate the legs still(not your fault).

Yeah I never liked the leg designs either. I was thinking of changing the legs but it's too much work but I might give it a shot next time.

 

[Hurm...]

I like it a lot, but the thicker neck guard looks a bit like Bruce is wearing a holiday turtleneck sweater lol.

Excellent manip though!

 

[ALP]

Terrific changes.

 

[Yurka]

Sweet Christ, its beautiful.

 

[SheldonLevene]

I know, I know.... I strongly doubt they're going to change the mask but man I'd kill to see this:

Changes:

Pointy ears.

Thicker neck guard so his bubbly head won't look so awkward.

Attached the cape to his neck for a couple reasons. One, it's more comic-accurate. Two, it hides the awkward collar.

Slightly changed the design by the eyes so it gives him a meaner look.

Opened the mouth area a tad more.

This one is just for fun:

Credit to poster Bane for original manip.

The one with the oval is too perfect for words.

 

[D.P.]

The thicker neck was needed so Batman could stop looking like a lightbulb with bat ears.

 

[Savage]

Not to mention it'd actually be more maneuverable. It would certainly have a lot more room.

 

[Soapy]

I really don't like the ears.

 

[Hurm...]

I really don't like the ears.

Well....

The ears don't like you either!

 

[Mako]

Cowl reminds me of Michael Turners Batman

 

[MiniBond]

Credit to poster Bane for original manip.

I never understood the hate for the yellow oval !!!

 

[Hurm...]

I think it just looks like a really awesome bumper sticker.

 

[Travesty]

I think it just looks like a really awesome bumper sticker.

Maybe he should try the emblem from the Returns or the Panther suit.

 

[JBElliott]

I know, I know.... I strongly doubt they're going to change the mask but man I'd kill to see this:

Changes:

Pointy ears.

Thicker neck guard so his bubbly head won't look so awkward.

Attached the cape to his neck for a couple reasons. One, it's more comic-accurate. Two, it hides the awkward collar.

Slightly changed the design by the eyes so it gives him a meaner look.

Opened the mouth area a tad more.

This one is just for fun:

Credit to poster Bane for original manip.

Needs more armor.