The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR Batsuit Discussion Thread

[Gianakin_]

An ugly wifebeater dressed for Halloween?

 

[Shazam]

Wifebeater?

 

[Gianakin_]

He gives me the vibe.

 

[JAK®]

We got the Alex Ross suit on film, it was called Dead End, and it looked awful. We need something a step up from that.

 

[Gianakin_]

Although the actor looked more like a porn star and less like a wifebeater. That Ross...

 

[Shazam]

We got the Alex Ross suit on film, it was called Dead End, and it looked awful. We need something a step up from that.

Oh pleeezzz...you're kidding right....surely you aren't going to compare a Sandy Collara bootleg film to a costume that could designed with millions of dollars at their disposal?? Dead End only had a budget of 30,000 dollars.

AND...I am not advocating using the cheap Collara materials either. I just said that they should take that expensive looking mesh they are using in Spiderman. Just use Batman's CLASSIC design, for a change. Enough with the stiff "I can barely move" suits. The second movie's suit was a step up. But it still looked cumbersome.

 

[JAK®]

Oh pleeezzz...you're kidding right....surely you aren't going to compare a Sandy Collara bootleg film to a custome that could designed with millions of dollars at their disposal?? Dead End only had a budget of 30,000 dollars.

AND...I am not advocating using the cheap Collara materials either. I just said that they should take that expensive looking mesh they are using in Spiderman. Just use Batman's CLASSIC design, for a change. Enough with the stiff "I can barely move" suits. The second movie's suit was a step up. But it still looked cumbersome.

Normally I would completely agree with you, but Ross' paintings are detailed enough that his interpretation is definitely meant to achieve a look similar to the Dead End suit.

You're right, Batman's classic design is fine as is, and with the amount of money these films are made on, there is no reason why it can't look good.

 

[BatScot]

BatScot, I think the keyword in your post--and I love it--really is deconstruction.

Then let us be clear on how and why I used that particular the term. I do not mean it to signify as destruction of the whole or a tearing apart of the tradition but rather, for example, in the culinary sense where the whole is presented in its constituent parts or put together in a different way than would normally be expected—the TDK suit is that and only that and for whatever purpose the design was intended the immediate result was to make obvious that which Wayne had gone to some effort to conceal.

That's what I feel about about the TDK suit. However, I wouldn't go far enough to call it a devolution. The suit is moved forwards, it's been 'improved', both in terms of function and it's role in the story.

The TDK suit does not move forward, it moves back. That’s the whole point of the TDK suit: a taking away of something (protectiveness) in order to gain something other (mobility). Now whether that ‘other’ is an advance or a regression is arguable (and largely beside the point). What the TDK suit is not is an evolution. The TDK suit is something less—a compromise, an improvement (mobility) that comes at a cost (less protection).

It does reinterpret the true function of the bat-suit and removes many things that TDK deems unnecessary

There is only one true function of the batsuit—it is an iconographically specific costume the purpose of which is to present an outward appearance resembling that of a bat. There is nothing in the TDK design that “reinterprets” that idea.

in the end whatever aspects of the Begins suit it removed, it added by the sheer fact that it's something new.

That is an opinion, not fact. That “something new” automatically makes something better is bolllocks.

There's a lot of antipathy towards the TDK suit from bat-fans because it doesn't adhere strictly to what we're used to in the comics

That’s simply not so. Most of the antipathy comes from those who think the TDK suit was an unnecessary departure from the Begins suit.

but to be honest, it is an improvement in terms of design. It tries to focus on elements of the classic batsuit that hasn't been focused on in the films -- the sheer power of tech that comes with it.

Look, I’m no fan of the rubber suits but fair is fair and fair to say the Begins suit was the best of the lot. Now if you want to argue the “technology” of the Begins suit vs. the TDK suit then fair enough: The Nomex Survival Suit for Advanced Military is superior in terms of design and narrative explanation. In comparison, the TDK design is glorified BMX armor.

That's the impression I get from the TDK suit. It's also something I got at the end of DK:R when Batman was fighting that Big Blue Boyscout.

I’ll walk out of a Nolan Batman film if a.) some flying alien shows up, and/or b.) Wayne suits up in Iron Man’s outfit.

 

[storyteller]

Mesh/cloth like material just aint going to happen because armor just looks powerful. But yeah I hope Nolan takes the flexibility of the TDK and takes it back to begins like suit. Theres about 80 levels of detail the suit just didn't need. Also YOU DON"T SHRINK THE DAMN BAT SYMBOL. Seriously throw some yellow up near that girl because theres no point if we can't see it.

 

[Binker]

I really love Lee Bermejo's artwork, and his Batman is no exception. Maybe they should use it as Batsuit "Stage Three"?

Another way they could go for is something based on Finch's Batman:

In terms of realism, I also like Paul Pope's Batman; where the gaunlets were gone, the boots were combat/work boots. Maybe something happens and Bruce can't get to the batsuit so he creates this.

 

[Mr. Earle]

This actually touches on a more fundamental problem: A Batman who is opposed to using a gun is not compatible with a Batman who outfits his tank-mobile with missiles. In any case, I don't recall that Nolan's Batman was opposed to guns per se—Nolan just didn’t go that deep into the ‘a gun was used to kill my parents’ motif—but rather that he chose not to intentionally kill another person, by any means. That being said, Nolan's Batman (and Burton's before him) clearly accepted the possibility of collateral damage even to the extent that it might result in the death of another person. And that poses it's own set of problems.

Nolan's Batman didnt kill anyone. Okay there are two big grey areas, one with Ras (totally unheroic and unBatmanlike) and one with TwoFace where in the comics they would have chosen a different way to kill him. See i'm sure that in real life Batman would be forced to kill, but they never put him in that corner in the comics. Its fiction so you can choose how things play out. But no, Nolan had to have Batman push him to his death so that he could take the blame and Gordon could give his forced speech.

I'm not sure that's good batmentoring... "okay kid, I don't want you playing with guns. Guns are not cool. Now go put on a rubber suit and go swing from the roof with that grapply looking tube thing. And make sure your home before sunrise."

Obviously some brain function is required as always. Its not that you should blindly follow what he does and leap to your death, but perhaps he could "inception" you the same hate for guns so even later, as an adult you wouldnt want one, you wouldnt think its cool, or fun, or whatever. Guns are bad MMMMkay?

 

[Mr. Earle]

Back to the batsuit...

A sleek Catwoman is going to look quite jarring when standing next to TDK's Plateman.

Here's hoping for a new suit in TDKR .

Knowing Hemming, she'd rather give pads to Catwoman as well.

Just as likely is that "no sex please" Nolan will mummify Anne's body in ugly, heavy rubber pads and straps. Realism, remember.

 

[Shazam]

I really love Lee Bermejo's artwork, and his Batman is no exception. Maybe they should use it as Batsuit "Stage Three"?

Another way they could go for is something based on Finch's Batman:

In terms of realism, I also like Paul Pope's Batman; where the gaunlets were gone, the boots were combat/work boots. Maybe something happens and Bruce can't get to the batsuit so he creates this.

I can live with either of those. The third one, a little less. The grey should be darker in each one.

I'm just tired of the black rubber suit that he can barely move in.

If people are so concerned with armour, these seem to have plenty of padding.

Even Tony Stark continued to make improvements. Why not Bruce Wayne. Batman needs to be able to pick up his car keys if he drops em, for cryin' out loud. LOL He can barely fight still.

And that cape???

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Shazam, I dropped those hopes 6 years ago

But now, just for the sake of continuity, I hope it is another rubber suit.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

We got the Alex Ross suit on film, it was called Dead End, and it looked awful. We need something a step up from that.

Normally I would completely agree with you, but Ross' paintings are detailed enough that his interpretation is definitely meant to achieve a look similar to the Dead End suit.

You're right, Batman's classic design is fine as is, and with the amount of money these films are made on, there is no reason why it can't look good.

I agree on Dead End we had us a very faithful looking Ross costume. I didn't quite hate it and actually loved the way the cape looked, the eye, and even all that leather. It seemed to be a definitive, low-budgeted Batman costume that won purely for its fidelity with the comics. But yes, on a big-budget movie, especially when compared to the other bat-suits and such, it falls short. Maybe with a better budget they could pull it off; maybe in the next franchise if not in Nolan's final chapter.

I just don't want to see the same kind of fabric from the Spider-man and Superman Returns suits used on Batman's gear. The material suggests tights, but you can tell that it isn't.

 

[weezerspider]

I really love Lee Bermejo's artwork, and his Batman is no exception. Maybe they should use it as Batsuit "Stage Three"?

This is my choice. It looks like it could easily be adapted for film and it still has the comic look. For continuity purposes, I want a very good explanation for Bats switching to a fabric type suit, but I will love it.

Also, TDK suit is my favorite on screen suit. If they used the same suit, but made the bat symbol bigger and maybe yellow, I'd be perfectly pleased.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Good meaty reading on your response BatScot, I'll address some of those points:

The TDK suit is something less—a compromise, an improvement (mobility) that comes at a cost (less protection).

Very nice way to put it. I felt that by devolution you meant that there was nothing new about the TDK suit that advanced or improved upon what we've seen in BB. Other than that I agree with you.

There is only one true function of the batsuit—it is an iconographically specific costume the purpose of which is to present an outward appearance resembling that of a bat. There is nothing in the TDK design that “reinterprets” that idea.

I am under the impression that it does. By deconstructing it (the way I'm using the term) we are pushing that idea to the limit - the suggestion of Batman, the icon, without being overtly Batman or bat-like. It still works. Even the symbol is removed but you look at what has been done with the suit and you can still say that it's a bat-suit, if not necessarily the batsuit. I am not a big fan of this approach, but I am willing to believe that this is what these radical re-designs are all about.

That is an opinion, not fact. That “something new” automatically makes something better is bolllocks.

Hold on... I didn't say, or imply, that did I? When it comes down to whether we should stick to the classic, unadulterated version from the comics or opt for something different and 'new', I will of course choose the former. But I don't mind seeing something 'new' and original. Why would I? Originality does not automatically mean something is better, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's terrible either. I know it's a touch bleeding-heart on my end, but I am open to fresh ideas.

That’s simply not so. Most of the antipathy comes from those who think the TDK suit was an unnecessary departure from the Begins suit.

Now this is a matter of opinion. I think it goes both ways.

I’ll walk out of a Nolan Batman film if a.) some flying alien shows up, and/or b.) Wayne suits up in Iron Man’s outfit.

Heh. Well maybe the Kryptonian will be replaced by that Santa Priscan prisoner. Otherness doesn't really require a specific point of origin does it? And I think we really did see Wayne dress up into something that's Iron Man-esque... I'm sorry, but I kept thinking EXOSKELETON SUIT with TDK, not light-weight armour. But I think that's a bit unfair on my end.

 

[weezerspider]

Yeah, I can't wait for Catwoman to appear in her sleek, fabric-based non armoured costume, and hear the justification people give for why she can get away with it and Batman can't.

(I already know the answer, it's because female characters have to look attractive at all costs)

Actually the answer is Selina Kyle doesn't own a multi-billion dollar company that created knife and bullet proof military suits. She had to make her costume from scratch, so a more comic-book like suit makes perfect sense.

 

[Shazam]

This is my choice. It looks like it could easily be adapted for film and it still has the comic look. For continuity purposes, I want a very good explanation for Bats switching to a fabric type suit, but I will love it.

Also, TDK suit is my favorite on screen suit. If they used the same suit, but made the bat symbol bigger and maybe yellow, I'd be perfectly pleased.

The explanation is simple. What is so difficult here? This is a new flexible injury resistant, material, developed by Wayne Technology. How does that NOt work?? We are suspending reality for everything else....why not this?

 

[weezerspider]

The explanation is simple. What is so difficult here? This is a new flexible injury resistant, material, developed by Wayne Technology. How does that NOt work?? We are suspending reality for everything else....why not this?

That is good enough for me. Basically, I meant they should acknowledge the change, like in TDK and why he changed.

 

[Shazam]

I see...

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Ms. Kyle made her costume out of the mere articles IN HER RANSACKED DRESSER. A costume with claws and a very suggestive whip that had Batman, with all the mythical prowess and technology of Wayne Enterprises, in shambles.

 

[Lencho01]

The explanation is simple. What is so difficult here? This is a new flexible injury resistant, material, developed by Wayne Technology. How does that NOt work?? We are suspending reality for everything else....why not this?

I never understood why they didn't go with that train of thought from the start.

 

[Mr. Earle]

That Bermejo suit is an abomination. Why are you guys cool with that thing and not the normal comics suit with the panties? Do all these seams make it cool now?

 

[DaveMoral]

^I think it's fitting with Nolan's world. The only thing I hate about it is that whole shoulder rig and how the Bat-crest is connected to it. That looks terrible.