The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR Batsuit Discussion Thread

[Godzilla2014]

I actually wouldn't mind seeing the oval return. Not gold/yellow, though. I'd prefer a dark bronze.

I just find it silly how Bruce stressed the importance of creating a symbol, but the physical symbol on his costume is almost impossible to make out.

The problem I have with that is that he would emphasize it by turning it into a bullseye on his chest. The Heart & Lungs: Not the world's best place to draw gunfire to.

 

[KRIM]

I actually wouldn't mind seeing the oval return. Not gold/yellow, though. I'd prefer a dark bronze.

I just find it silly how Bruce stressed the importance of creating a symbol, but the physical symbol on his costume is almost impossible to make out.

It's entirely plausible the chest logo in particular is more for himself than it is for others. Similar to how personal tattoos and jewelry hold significance when worn, irrespective of its outside visibility.

 

[COMPO]

If Bane does in fact 'break' Batman it'd be cool if the new suit came out of the end so it doesn't seem like its rehashing TDK with Bruce changing his suit at the beginning but having it developed through the film and getting it at the end when he's regained his mantle.

 

[KalMart]

Here's a rough example of what I meant earlier about "starting with a 'lighter' grey...". And sorry if this is long and boring for some.

Let's say we start with this excellent rendering.....

For all intents and purposes, it's created as sort of the reference as to what level of 'grey' we'd like the bodysuit part as. But it's also done with basically neutral/full ambient lighting...in this case from behind/through on a computer monitor. Almost as if he's standing in a surgery room with full-level light all around him. But if this were in real 3D, we'd be applying light TO it...let's say a basic spotlight-type of light, which I've simulated as 3D layers in After Effects with a virtual light shining onto it as if it were a real object. I've compared starting with the original (above), and one with a lighter base shade of grey (bottom)...I didn't change/adjust the levels on the images of Batman, I only changed the level of light shining on him.

With the original...although the 'grey' part looks 'just right' in full light, it basically becomes another shade of black as you go with darker lighting conditions, as may be appropriate for a Batman film. It coudl easily register to the viewer as black, and perhaps a different texture from the cape/cowl/gloves if it can even be distinguished at all...especially in movement.

The second/bottom version starts off with a grey that may be too bright in full/higher lighting conditions...but as we darken the lighting towards our overall look like we did with the original, the 'grey' part remains more distinguishable than the 'black', and pretty-much equates the original grey that we liked by the time we hit our target lighting. It might still be too light of a grey, but for demonstration purposes you can hopefully see how it reacts in comparison.

This is assuming, of course, that the '50%' light is the general kind of light level that Batman would be in for most of his time onscreen. If the bottom suit suddenly steps into a brighter, more direct light, then the grey would suddenly look brighter, obviously. So that's why so much time goes into lighting/shot/material design fro something like this...and why a single rendering cant quite tell the whole story as to 'what it should look like'. It's also why sometimes a production snapshot can make something look so crappy, as opposed to how it'll eventually be shot through the cinema cameras, then timed and adjusted for final print....and why going 'all-black' from the outset can be easier to work with.

 

[JAK®]

I don't mind if Batman looks all-black in shadow.

 

[KalMart]

I don't mind if Batman looks all-black in shadow.

Yep. And even if he had a medium red bodysuit...if he was primarily backlit in the shadows, he'd pretty-much be a black silhouette anyway. That's why they have to plan carefully as to when/where he'll be in more direct light and how that grey will register...or just going all black throughout for easier consistency.

 

[protoctista]

I'm never going to understand the black and grey advocates... and I've never seen a manip or concept pic that has even remotely persuaded me that it would be workable on film.


Jet black just looks awesome. The Batman Begins suit is my favourite suit by far, and the main problem I had with the change to The Dark Knight suit was actually less the segmentation/knight-armour style that people had such a problem with... for me, I didn't like the shift to grey.

The only change I MIGHT make to that would be a more prominent chest symbol. But there was so much badass stuff happening with this suit in the film that it never registered in my mind once.

 

[JAK®]

I'm never going to understand the black and grey advocates... and I've never seen a manip or concept pic that has even remotely persuaded me that it would be workable on film.

It's really arrogant of you to claim that a colour combination doesn't work just because you don't like it.

I'm never going to understand people who say grey and black is some bizarre combination that seems to destroy all sense of realism.

 

[protoctista]

Hey. That statement expressed my own opinion, and was entirely self-referential. "I have not been persuaded. I do not understand" How is that it any way arrogant? Get a grip and stop being aggressive. Seriously, just stop it.

 

[JAK®]

Hey. That statement expressed my own opinion, and was entirely self-referential. "I have not been persuaded. I do not understand" How is that it any way arrogant? Get a grip and stop being aggressive. Seriously, just stop it.

It's arrogant because you have to be persuaded that a colour combination can "work on film".

It's black and grey. It's not like we're talking about pink with yellow polkadots.

 

[the dmg]

The TRON suits, while made of rubber, are flexible enough that they look like skin tight fabric but protective as well.

Latex foam over spandex, which added a lot of flexibility to the costume. I love the Tron: Legacy suits.

I'd like something like these:

That is just awesome.

 

[KalMart]

It's arrogant because you have to be persuaded that a colour combination can "work on film".

It's black and grey. It's not like we're talking about pink with yellow polkadots.

Y'know....if they really wanted to control the grey, and maintain the appropriate level of detail throughout.....

...they might be best off, strangely enough, using 3D reference dots while filming throughout, then recreate it with CG/post and composite it in. Effects technology is at the point where I'll bet they could make it look seamless...aided by the fact that most of it would be in darker/nighttime lighting. Using that Arkham game as an example, too.

 

[Godzilla2014]

It's arrogant because you have to be persuaded that a colour combination can "work on film".

It's black and grey. It's not like we're talking about pink with yellow polkadots.

I think that it isn't arrogant for him to "have to be persuaded". It might be arrogant (by some person's definition) if he said that it will not work period, and that no picture will convince him otherwise. What he said is that he has yet to be convinced otherwise. There's a very big difference.

 

[meee]

It would seem in a "tactical" discussion about the TDK suit the issue would come up about hang-up points on this suit. If a person were to use it in real life he would constantly be getting caught on things. When watching one of the Star Wars films with commentary on the issue of noise with the Storm Troopers and Vader comes up. The TDK suit looks like it would be loud during movement in person. These are of course movies and these things don't really matter but there is an attempt in BB and TDK to have us view them in a more realistic way. I always pictured Bruce Wayne to be more of a minimalist anyway. The way Nolan and his team gushed on the TDK special features about how great the new suit was I think that one will also appear in TDKR.

 

[KalMart]

It would seem in a "tactical" discussion about the TDK suit the issue would come up about hang-up points on this suit. If a person were to use it in real life he would constantly be getting caught on things. When watching one of the Star Wars films with commentary on the issue of noise with the Storm Troopers and Vader comes up. The TDK suit looks like it would be loud during movement in person. These are of course movies and these things don't really matter but there is an attempt in BB and TDK to have us view them in a more realistic way. I always pictured Bruce Wayne to be more of a minimalist anyway. The way Nolan and his team gushed on the TDK special features about how great the new suit was I think that one will also appear in TDKR.

In terms of getting hung up on things...I could only see that because of the cape, ears, and perhaps the blades on the arms...which would be on any Batman suit. Not really the bodysuit itself, since it's really not that much different than a tactical swat/special forces one....which I'll bet was designed with mobility and tight spaces in mind as well as protection. Granted, they don't swing and jump around as much as Batman would. But all in all...the TDK suit does make sense for someone who would do what he does, even if it doesn't quite meet the more romantic comic-adventure sensibilities or what have you. I've never felt that 'buying' the rationale of his suit in BB and TDK was a problem...it's more fueled by the departure it takes from the more traditional comic-like portrayal.

 

[meee]

In terms of getting hung up on things...I could only see that because of the cape, ears, and perhaps the blades on the arms...which would be on any Batman suit. Not really the bodysuit itself, since it's really not that much different than a tactical swat/special forces one....which I'll bet was designed with mobility and tight spaces in mind as well as protection. Granted, they don't swing and jump around as much as Batman would. But all in all...the TDK suit does make sense for someone who would do what he does, even if it doesn't quite meet the more romantic comic-adventure sensibilities or what have you. I've never felt that 'buying' the rationale of his suit in BB and TDK was a problem...it's more fueled by the departure it takes from the more traditional comic-like portrayal.

I'm not really a comics purist. I felt that the BB was the best suit yet. So the complaint didnt really come from a place of longing to see Dead End suit on the big screen. The TDK suit just seems overly complicated as an upgrade to the BB suit.

 

[KalMart]

I'm not really a comics purist. I felt that the BB was the best suit yet. So the complaint didnt really come from a place of longing to see Dead End suit on the big screen. The TDK suit just seems overly complicated as an upgrade to the BB suit.

To me, the TDK suit seems more mobile and breathable than the BB one. The joints and overlapping armor just seemed to offer more areas to bend and flex than the stiffer, more mono-shell-ish design of the BB one. Busier in design, yes, to be sure. But in the dark lighting of the actual film, more like combat texture overall than the still rubber-looking one of BB. More complex rather than 'complicated', if you will, but with a purpose.

But really, I look at it as one version of the Batman suit that he used for the events of that story....and still uniquely and identifiably Batman when all put together. It's not definitive, but doesn't have to be. It makes sense in the framework of that particular story interpretation, and adds that small touch of plausibility to the narrative. I just didn't like how the head still looked rather light-bulbish from the front, and on both suits, the inward-tapering ears took away from the overall shape.

 

[COMPO]

2bh I still think its Bale's wieght that ruined the suit, he was just too lean which didnt mean him as intimidating as he looked in BB.

 

[craigdbfan]

Not much his physique could have done though. I also love how he looked in BB and personally think thats the way Bruce Wayne/Batman should look most of the time

But what ruined it was the costume itself in TDK which was just "alright" but it didn't feel like Batman as much as the Begin suit.

Begins Bats > TDK new suit Bats

 

[COMPO]

yeah but when Bale had his shirt off at the beginning scene it was sort of like wtf and then the suit came n he looked thin which i think if he was bigger it might have helped a bit in going okay hes got the shape of Batman but the suit is bad whereas it was kind of like he doesnt have any, but still we've seen lean batmen in the comics so its okay and Bale was still good at the role its just a nitpick for the suit 2bh.

 

[KalMart]

2bh I still think its Bale's wieght that ruined the suit, he was just too lean which didnt mean him as intimidating as he looked in BB.

I actually thought his bulk is what worked against his Batsuit in BB, or vice versa....it just added to his sense of stockiness but not height...making him look shorter and squattier. And the BB cowl bunched up his cheeks too much. the TDK suit could have stood to be a bit broader in the shoulders...maybe just some slightly wider padding on the delt area. But being slimmer in the waist helps with the proportions.

 

[craigdbfan]

Again they are both solid incarnations of Bruce.

You keep saying his weight detracted from his look in Begins which is a silly as saying that his lack of weight somehow was a detriment in TDK. Because within the movie itself the issue of weight isn't really attributed to him personally but rather the suit.

Both bulky and slimmer Wayne work fine its just a matter of visual preference really.

 

[KalMart]

Again they are both solid incarnations of Bruce.

You keep saying his weight detracted from his look in Begins which is a silly as saying that his lack of weight somehow was a detriment in TDK. Because within the movie itself the issue of weight isn't really attributed to him personally but rather the suit.

Not really, though. Sure, there's reasoning for his physique within the context of the respective movies, but this is more about aesthetics and overall sense of stature once he puts the Batman suit on. He looked a bit thin in TDK, but to me it was much more preferable than the squattier look/profile in BB. Personal preferences between the two, really.

 

[Saint]

I prefer Batman's proportions in TDK (with regards to the suit, not Bale's physique). In addition to being quite bulky, the BB suit had this sculpted "heroic" posture that often made it look awkward and unnatural. NAd yes, I agree with Kalmart that it made him look somewhat squat. I much prefer the more human TDK proportions and shape.

Now if only they could do something about the horrible jigsaw look, we'd be in business.

 

[craigdbfan]

They need to do something about the cowl as well.

That rigged lined neck didn't look very good. They can at least cover it up I hope in the new suit.