The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR Batsuit Discussion Thread

[KalMart]

Look at a picture of Bale in the suit without the cowl.
Then look at a picture of him with it.

The cowl makes his head look bigger. Or am I to believe that Bale actually has a head that large?

It's kinda' tough with rubber...as it has to be at least somewhat flexible to form and squeeze tightly around the head and offer at least a bit of movement...but then there also has to be some mass to keep the 'ears' rigid and not let them bend and sway as he moves around.

I think maybe somewhere down the line, a solution may be found in new composite materials and stabilizing the ears with a rigid internal structure, so it doesn't add the thickness that we've kind of been stuck with through all Batman movies.


Or....they'll do it in CGI and have the actor wear dots all throughout filming.

 

[Boom]

Godzilla,

Which is what the cowl is designed to do (in the context of the story).

But helmets still make your head look larger. Just like this cowl does.

 

[JAK®]

No, helmets refer to headgear with rigid structure either for protection or decoration.

And they don't protect you if there isn't any considerable distance between your head and the outer shell, whether it be through thickness or empty space...

 

[Boom]

Someday, we will get a non-rubber batsuit and a non-rubber cowl. And paramedics around the world will find Batman fans lying on the floors of their homes, dehydrated and in shock, because someone dared to break away from a tradition that we had come to accept as a norm.

 

[JAK®]

I distinctly remember before BB came out, when it was still known as Intimidation Game, there were reports that the suit was fabric based.

The fandom rejoiced! Finally, a non rubber Batsuit!

When the first image was released and we saw the suit was in fact made of rubber, there were complaints.

But that was back when Nolan wasn't immune to criticism.

 

[KalMart]

It's hard to find something that's both rigid and flexible, though. Maybe a tight, stretchable fabric with semi-rigid 'implants' where needed.

When are they coming out with 'real' memory-cloth?

 

[KRIM]

It's hard to find something that's both rigid and flexible, though.

It's 2011. I'm sure there's some way of making all the components work into one cohesive and attractive piece. Even Nolan admitted the BB suit was a matter of constrained time, so they only had the choice of improving what was already built.

They made a lot of improvements with the TDK suit, but a large part of me still thinks the final product was partly a result of maintaining visual continuity -- hence the rubber. It will likely be the same this time around.

I wonder if things would have been radically different had Nolan been given the luxury of a few extra months to really attack the drawing board.

 

[Boom]

Thank you, KRIM.

Considering what filmmakers are able to create in this day and age, I simply refuse to believe that a flexible, one-piece cowl cannot be made to work.

 

[KalMart]

it's 2011. I'm sure there's some way of making all the components work into one cohesive and attractive piece. Even nolan admitted the bb suit was a matter of constrained time, so they only had the choice of improving what was already built.

Considering what filmmakers are able to create in this day and age, I simply refuse to believe that a flexible, one-piece cowl cannot be made to work.

Well, if you know of an existing material that would do it aside from rubber with less mass, but is still moldable to look like one continuous piece...I'm sure they'd love to hear about it.

They made a lot of improvements with the tdk suit, but a large part of me still thinks the final product was partly a result of maintaining visual continuity -- hence the rubber. It will likely be the same this time around.

I wonder if things would have been radically different had nolan been given the luxury of a few extra months to really attack the drawing board.

cg?

 

[Boom]

No.

 

[KalMart]

No.

Why not? If they were able to take Nighy with some dots on his face and head, and make something as complex as Davey Jones look so convincing...how hard would a thin cloth cowl and ears be?

 

[KRIM]

Well, if you know of an existing material that would do it aside from rubber with less mass, but is still moldable to look like one continuous piece...I'm sure they'd love to hear about it.

Again, I will have to stress -- out of all the things that could possibly be a logistics nightmare for a movie production in 2011 -- this is it? Really?

I don't need to point out I'm no expert on textile development. Neither are most people here. But to insinuate a product out there doesn't/can't exist is absolutely ludicrous. It's a matter of directing your attention towards that avenue and gathering the necessary specialists to experiment. That's how nearly every major department in the film production works.

 

[Godzilla2014]

No.

I agree. It would just be a massive waste of money and man-hours just to make it look good.

 

[Boom]

Kal,

The design for Davy Jones demanded CG. Come on. You're comparing a man with tentacles for a beard to a mask.

That's what we are talking about. A mask. There is absolutely no reason for something that basic to be CG.

 

[KalMart]

Again, I will have to stress -- out of all the things that could possibly be a logistics nightmare for a movie production in 2011 -- this is it? Really?

I'm not saying that they weren't 'rushed'...but even if they had the time...what else is out there that would do the job, without getting Dow Chemicals or something to invent the right material? Could they do it in a year? How much would it cost?

I don't need to point out I'm no expert on textile development. Neither are most people here. But to insinuate a product out there doesn't/can't exist is absolutely ludicrous. It's a matter of directing your attention towards that avenue and gathering the necessary specialists to experiment. That's how nearly every major department in the film production works.

See above. And again...why not CG, with the level of CG advancement these days? You can make it look and act like any material you want...even ones that don't exist.

 

[JAK®]

Kal,

The design for Davy Jones demanded CG. Come on. You're comparing a man with squid tentacles for a beard to a mask.

That's what we are talking about. A mask. There is absolutely no reason for something that basic to be CG.

Awkward...

 

[KalMart]

Kal,

The design for Davy Jones demanded CG. Come on. You're comparing a man with tentacles for a beard to a mask.

Yes, and I'm comparing how much easier it'd be to make it look convincing and real without all the organic movement, etc,....aided by the fact that you wouldn't have to CG his mouth.

That's what we are talking about. A mask. There is absolutely no reason for something that basic to be CG.

Except if you can't get it to remain both thin and tight while remaining rigid in the right places. CG has progressed to a point now where it doesn't always have to look like CG when used. It can look real.

All I'm saying is don't dismiss it outright as an option.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Awkward...

is this real?

 

[KalMart]

is this real?

It's real CG.

 

[Boom]

Kal,

I don't know what material they could use. You'd be better off asking somebody in that million-dollar industry. But just because Nolan and Company choose to stick with the rubber cowl doesn't mean that that is the only viable material.

And again, there is absolutely no reason to have a CG cowl. I don't care how far CGI has come. That would be completely pointless.

 

[JAK®]

is this real?

It is;
[YT]FbyJSbimX0Y[/YT]

It looks far better in motion.

 

[KalMart]

 

[KalMart]

Kal,

I don't know what material they could use. You'd be better off asking somebody in that million-dollar industry. But just because Nolan and Company choose to stick with the rubber cowl doesn't mean that that is the only viable material.

I never said it was. In fact, if you look back several posts, I hypothesized about other possible materials..at least in terms of pliability et al.

And again, there is absolutely no reason to have a CG cowl. I don't care how far CGI has come. That would be completely pointless.

It wouldn't if they felt they could get the best results with it. Don't look at it as CG in name...look at the potential of its application beyond fanstastical designs/characters. Look what it did for Two Face, as opposed to makeup/prosthetics. Look at the level of control they had over its design and movement, and how real it looked. You can apply that to a virtual mask as well...you can give it the kind of texture and lighting that's needed to look real and not CG'd...with the added benefit of giving it physical properties that would be much harder or even impossible to achieve with real materials.

 

[Boom]

Call my old-fashioned, but I prefer it when CGI is only used when it is absolutely necessary. And since I believe that a physical non-rubber cowl can be made to work, I absolutely hate the idea of a CG cowl.

Other than that, I don't know what to tell you. Let's just agree to disagree .

 

[KRIM]

I'm not saying that they weren't 'rushed'...but even if they had the time...what else is out there that would do the job, without getting Dow Chemicals or something to invent the right material? Could they do it in a year? How much would it cost?

I'm not the best person to pose these questions to. It's their job to find/create it. Since none of us are any more inclined to answer these presumptions with any professional backup, we're only going off possibilities. That's what is being proposed here -- is it feasible for a material to faithfully adapt the mobility and thinness of the one found in the books? Moreover, are people that unimaginative to believe that rubber is the pinnacle achievement here?

See above. And again...why not CG, with the level of CG advancement these days? You can make it look and act like any material you want...even ones that don't exist.

I'd be open to any method. However is the question of CG a matter of usability or accessibility? No method should be abused for the sake of it. As fine of a tool it is, I'm finding it hard to believe it's the best substitute.

OT, but -

If this hasn't been posted in the GL forums, it should. Illustrates quite brilliantly how the over-saturation and brightness of the effect actually has little to do with its texture looking "real".