The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR Batsuit Discussion Thread

[A Necessary Evil]

It's real CG.

It is;
[YT]FbyJSbimX0Y[/YT]

It looks far better in motion.

Okay...phew...I was about to say..lolll

 

[KalMart]

Call my old-fashioned, but I prefer it when CGI is only used when it is absolutely necessary. And since I believe that a physical non-rubber cowl can be made to work, I absolutely hate the idea of a CG cowl.

Other than that, I don't know what to tell you. Let's just agree to disagree .

I understand how you feel about wanting to 'keep it real'. But I think you're selling CG short because your only basing it on the more fantastical applications out there. We can call it 'virtual real material', if you'd like. A physical, non-rubber cowl could be made to work...but what if the CG one works even better, and looks just as real if you were to do an a-to-b comparison in front of someone who had no indication that one was CG? Wouldn't you want the better result? That's all I'm saying...don't cancel CG as a possibility just because it's CG. That's prejudice.

 

[redhawk23]

Nolan bearly even uses CG for flipping trucks in the middle of a chicago street or hospitals blowing up, you really think hes going to use it for a gorram mask?

 

[Boom]

You don't get more real than a real mask. I don't care how authentic CG is made to look.

 

[redhawk23]

and prefering non rubber to rubber isn't predjudice?

 

[KalMart]

I'm not the best person to pose these questions to. It's their job to find/create it. Since none of us are any more inclined to answer these presumptions with any professional backup, we're only going off possibilities. That's what is being proposed here -- is it feasible for a material to faithfully adapt the mobility and thinness of the one found in the books? Moreover, are people that unimaginative to believe that rubber is the pinnacle achievement here?


I'd be open to any method. However is the question of CG a matter of usability or accessibility? No method should be abused for the sake of it. As fine of a tool it is, I'm finding it hard to believe it's the best substitute.

How is it that you're getting 'abuse' out of this? I'm talking about utilizing it appropriately and to the best of its abilities...which can apply equally to a six-armed alien, or a uniform or cowl. Abuse would be if they actually tried to make it look like a cool special effect.

If this hasn't been posted in the GL forums, it should. Illustrates quite brilliantly how the over-saturation and brightness of the effect actually has little to do with its texture looking "real".

Yeah, it's more of a design issue.

 

[KalMart]

and prefering non rubber to rubber isn't predjudice?

Not quite...because we've actually seen several specific examples of the application of rubber in this case, we've seen the shortcomings, and some aren't happy with it.

 

[KalMart]

Nolan bearly even uses CG for flipping trucks in the middle of a chicago street or hospitals blowing up, you really think hes going to use it for a gorram mask?

I think we're talking more about future Non-Nolan Batmans...as Nolan will probably continue the designs like he's been using. At least that's what I'm referring to.

 

[Boom]

and prefering non rubber to rubber isn't predjudice?

We've had six films and eight batsuits with rubber cowls.

Yeah. I'm done with it.

 

[KRIM]

How is it that you're getting 'abuse' out of this? I'm talking about utilizing it appropriately and to the best of its abilities...which can apply equally to a six-armed alien, or a uniform or cowl.

It was just a hypothetical question. I'm just not convinced this area is so complex that CG is the best tool for it. Regardless of its effectiveness. It may be able to match it, but you can never beat real. And I think that 'real' material and application is out there. It is just a question if that's the direction the crew wants to take their resources to.

 

[redhawk23]

yes and we have 20+ years of sketchy ass hollywood cg

 

[Boom]

And I don't want a CG cowl.

 

[KalMart]

You don't get more real than a real mask. I don't care how authentic CG is made to look.

Let's see some side-by-side examples for the exact same application before we decide that for sure.

yes and we have 20+ years of sketchy ass hollywood cg

It doesn't have to be done that way from here on out, though.

 

[KalMart]

And I don't want a CG cowl.

How about a CG cowl that doesn't look like it's CG?


Would you be okay with a rubber cowl that doesn't look rubber?

 

[redhawk23]

I think that there would have to be some way that they could have a multipiece cowl but then cover it with something, some sort of material, not necesarily fabric, but something. you would have to be careful with the way it creases but thats true of anything flexible.

 

[redhawk23]

Let's see some side-by-side examples for the exact same application before we decide that for sure.


It doesn't have to be done that way from here on out, though.

And rubber or physical effects dont have to be used the same way either.

 

[KalMart]

It was just a hypothetical question. I'm just not convinced this area is so complex that CG is the best tool for it. Regardless of its effectiveness. It may be able to match it, but you can never beat real. And I think that 'real' material and application is out there. It is just a question if that's the direction the crew wants to take their resources to.

Let's clear this up a bit here.....I do believe, and agree, that they should first look into materials. It's the sensible thing to do. But..I also think that it won't hurt to look into what CG can do as well, and take each as far as they can go with it before making the decision. And whichever the decision is, it's because of the final result, and not because one's physically 'real' and the other not. How 'real' it is should only be judged by how it looks when completed and in the film...not by how it was constructed.

 

[KalMart]

And rubber or physical effects dont have to be used the same way either.

I never said they did. Read my response to Boom before this one.

 

[Lencho01]

Okay...phew...I was about to say..lolll

Here's a closer look at the mask...

Reciting the Oath, meeting Tomar on Oa

Spoiler

I'm fine with CGI for the neck area, but still prefer something real that isn't rubber. As for the mask, there's this...

[YT]tGjhFJOXl5k[/YT]

They made a CGI/real combo work.

There's also the Batman of JLM that we never got to see...

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=19090297&postcount=70

There have been a lot of Batman costumes, from the outlandish Joel Schumacher costumes to the more grounded battle armor of Christopher Nolan's films. What kind of take did George Miller have in mind?

It was very, very character-specific. It did have a semblance of a battle-armor feel, but at the same time, because it was so character-specific, it was all made out of the finest materials. Because Batman has such incredible resources, his utility belt was made from the finest Italian leather and highly polished, and the things that would come out of his forearm, they were titanium but wrapped in very fine leather. I mean, it was all really well-done, very utilitarian. This was before Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight had come out, and this was going to be the first movie where Batman would be able to turn his head [in the cowl]. We had the first bat-suit that let the head turn, it just never got the chance to make it onto the screen.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=19469647&postcount=6656

IGN's Stax spoke with Armie Hammer about the Batman he was set to play. Here's a transcription of the podcast where Stax relays to Eric Moro what Hammer had told him. It begins around the 39th minute.

Quote:
He said that the costume was unlike any costume that had been designed for any of the Batman films. He said it wasn't this sculpted, rubber type thing. It was made from leather and titamium and chainmail...all this stuff. He said it weighed up to a hundred pounds. And he said because he's six foot five, by the time he had everything on, the cowl and everything, he was seven feet tall. And he said just the sheer mass of all that changes everything. How you move, like every step you take, has such purpose to it that it makes you intimidating.

He said that the mask was unlike any of the other cowls that had been developed. It was very tight to the face. Kind of like...I would imagine like the way that Neal Adams drew it. And that the face was sculpted with this terrifying, angry kind of anguished look to it. And he said that there are no images of this out there at all. He said that the closest thing that the mask looked like was the scene in Batman Begins when Batman sprays Scarecrow with his own fear toxin, and he sees the demon Batman. He said his Batman looked more like that than any of the other versions.

He said that the scalloped gauntlet on Batman's glove, that it was made...they were titanium and covered in Italian leather, because the costume designer said Bruce Wayne has more money than God, so he is going to have the best of everything. So the utility belt was polished Italian leather. He had titanium and kevlar. There was apparently going to be one scene where Batman tries to use his gauntlet to grab himself as he falls in a wall, and we would see leather being stripped off the "little fins" on his glove to reveal the metal underneath as he tries to dig into the wall to save himself. He said there was no yellow on there, so there was no yellow circle around the bat. Everything just sounded awesome. He said all the gizmos were great.

I really think that if Warner Bros...maybe they'll wait till after the Nolan films...but they could really do themselves a few favors here if they released those pictures, or some of the costume test videos. I mean, look at all the stuff that's begun to leak out about the Tim Burton Superman Returns...all the costume tests that have been done. I'm sure this stuff will get out someday, but I don't want to wait ten years. It sounds really awesome. I want to see it now.
Stax and Moro go on to discuss the reasons for the film's cancellation and the possibility for a JLA film in the future.

http://uk.movies.ign.com/articles/114/1143128p1.html

 

[KRIM]

Let's clear this up a bit here.....I do believe, and agree, that they should first look into materials. It's the sensible thing to do. But..I also think that it won't hurt to look into what CG can do as well, and take each as far as they can go with it before making the decision. And whichever the decision is, it's because of the final result, and not because one's physically 'real' and the other not. How 'real' it is should only be judged by how it looks when completed and in the film...not by how it was constructed.

Yes, then I would agree. It was just with the whole CG topic being brought up, it came off to me like the resources to real materials had been exhausted.

 

[KalMart]

Yes, then I would agree. It was just with the whole CG topic being brought up, it came off to me like the resources to real materials had been exhausted.

Yeah, I think there's tons more research to be done into other materials/constructions for the cowl. But if a CG-approach nails it. hopefully we can find a way not to hold that against it.

 

[Lone]

There's also the Batman of JLM that we never got to see...

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=19090297&postcount=70

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=19469647&postcount=6656

Damn. Now I REALLY wanna see that suit.

 

[KRIM]

I'm just as intrigued to see how Armie Hammer looked in it. His natural size is humongous, and from the sound of things he was even bigger with the suit. I was one of the few that was very open to him playing the role, back when everyone clammed up on him for being a nobody.

Funny now that he's been in a successful Fincher flick as well as starring in Eastwood's next picture. The kid's a rising star. WB should keep an eye out for him if they ever actually go through with that Batman reboot.

 

[Lencho01]

I wonder how they chose to have him be able to turn his head without any rubber, but a suit made of leather, titanium, and chainmail.

I have a feeling WB's keeping their eye on Hammer for something since he would've been Batman and was up for the Superman reboot as well. I think he sounds a lot like a young Conroy.

What do you guys think of this?

http://www.superherostuff.com/blog/comic-books/batman-depiction-art-work-by-alessandro-baldasseroni/

Spoiler

 

[Godzilla2014]

I'm just as intrigued to see how Armie Hammer looked in it. His natural size is humongous, and from the sound of things he was even bigger with the suit. I was one of the few that was very open to him playing the role, back when everyone clammed up on him for being a nobody.

Funny now that he's been in a successful Fincher flick as well as starring in Eastwood's next picture. The kid's a rising star. WB should keep an eye out for him if they ever actually go through with that Batman reboot.

I wonder too. I would be interested in seeing him audition for the role.