The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread (NOT A LOUNGE) - - Part 57

[Travesty]

Irrelevant. Batman returns focused it's narrative on it's villains too.

I got mixed up to what you were responding to in your original post. My bad, I agree with you. I thought your point was completely different.

 

[Travesty]

It doesn't since Batman is Bruce and Nolan keeps it about him. He ain't Burton and Schumacher.

Burton's Batman was about Bruce being trapped in the Batman persona, so there was no need to explore more of Bruce's side.

As for Schumacher, he did delve into Bruce's psyche in Forever, so it's not like it's absent.

 

[SpideyFan866]

Is it possible for the TDKR trailer to be attached at both The Avengers and Dark Shadows? I'm seeing both so it would be nice if the trailer is attached to both.

I think so. While it makes perfect sense for the trailer to be attached to Dark Shadows, a fellow WB film, the trailer would get a ALOT of exposure from being attached to The Avengers, a film as likely to break a billion as TDKR is.

Popular belief now though, do to RIM's recent reports about TASM and rumors about TDKR at CinemaCon, is that that newest trailers, 3rd for both, for TASM and TDKR will be attached to U.S. prints of The Avengers/The Avengers 3D

 

[Sharkboy]

This.


I never really liked how Bruce took a backseat to Batman and everyone else, if that makes sense.

Well yes and no. I liked how TDK focused on the idea of Batman and his effects rather than the character himself. The whole film is about the people he inspires, the effect his presence has on politicians, criminals, the mob, the public, the cops etc. So the narrative definitely had him as the centerpiece even it wasn't always about him personally. Pretty much everything people did in that movie involved him in someway.

Take BR however, and penguin and catwoman's aims for the movie have nothing to do with Batman, he just shows up and stops them.

They really don't need to show batman on screen for long, because unlike in the comics the very idea of a man in a batsuit can feel pretty silly if he's doing random things like walking around on the phone, using the computer for a long period of time etc. The comics have the liberty to make him look good every time he does things like that, the films not so much which is why his appearances always need to be action packed and short. It's bruce wayne where all the drama and focus needs to center on, and i felt TDK veered away from that a little.

 

[The Joker]

Burton's Batman was about Bruce was trapped in the Batman persona, so there was no need to explore more of Bruce's side.

As for Schumacher, he did delve into Bruce's psyche in Forever, so it's not like it's absent.

I might get stoned for this, but I think those scenes with Bruce struggling with his nightmares about his parents' murder, their funeral, and seeing the giant bat were rather good.

I also think Bruce's scenes with Dick where he tries to warn him off the path of revenge were good, too.

Forever was not without merit.

 

[Sharkboy]

I might get stoned for this, but I think those scenes with Bruce struggling with his nightmares about his parents' murder, their funeral, and seeing the giant bat were rather good.

I also think Bruce's scenes with Dick where he tries to warn him off the path of revenge were good, too.

Forever was not without merit.

Not at all, you are right those scenes are pretty good. The whole thing with Bruce's anxiety over his father's diary and how he'll never write in it again, was great stuff. Those scenes felt more like the comics than a lot of stuff in the previous films.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

I might get stoned for this, but I think those scenes with Bruce struggling with his nightmares about his parents' murder, their funeral, and seeing the giant bat were rather good.

I also think Bruce's scenes with Dick where he tries to warn him off the path of revenge were good, too.

Forever was not without merit.

I actually will agree with you there. Those were the scenes that made the movie for me.

 

[SpideyFan866]

I might get stoned for this, but I think those scenes with Bruce struggling with his nightmares about his parents' murder, their funeral, and seeing the giant bat were rather good.

I also think Bruce's scenes with Dick where he tries to warn him off the path of revenge were good, too.

Forever was not without merit.

I'm not gonna stone you because I thought they were good to. I just feel that Kilmer's performance brought it down some.

His performance was kinda dry. Not phoned in at all but I just don't think he really fit the role very well.


I do however think he did a good job as bats and I love the way the question of whether or not Bruce and Batman can coexist was handled.
It would've been pulled off with a better actor.

 

[Travesty]

I thought Kilmer was a great Bruce/Batman.

 

[Nevincer]

Well yes and no. I liked how TDK focused on the idea of Batman and his effects rather than the character himself. The whole film is about the people he inspires, the effect his presence has on politicians, criminals, the mob, the public, the cops etc. So the narrative definitely had him as the centerpiece even it wasn't always about him personally. Pretty much everything people did in that movie involved him in someway.

It's bruce wayne where all the drama and focus needs to center on, and i felt TDK veered away from that a little.

Agreed. Bruce was like a mannequin in TDK, mainly because like Bruce in B89 I think they were subtly suggesting his humanity rippling away and becoming trapped in his persona and duty as Batman. Sure, he had that whole "day Gotham no longer needs Batman" thing as his rationalization, but it was really a fantasy and even Rachel saw through that. I personally don't think it was a fault with how our relationship as the audience changed from Begins, I think it was fully intentional... we "miss" the Begins Bruce because unlike who we were rooting for then, he's in a tragic, unrelatable place right now and the drama in Rises will be him finding himself again IMO.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Kilmer was fine so was BF I had no problems with it. TBH I didn't dislike BM&R at the time because I was a kid and it reminded me of the 60's show. Hindsight is always twenty-twenty however.

 

[TCCB]

I never really liked how Bruce took a backseat to Batman and everyone else, if that makes sense.

Well in a way I think that was the point of TDK, its comes out in the conversation Alfred and Bruce have towards the beginning of the movie, and throughout. How Bruce is overstepping his bounds, not realizing HE has limits, not separating from the Batman persona, Batman was meant to be a symbol not a symbiote, he can't see that and is blinded by his "duty"...that's the point of The Dark Knight, the difference between man and monster, between was is perceived right and what's actually doing good for Gotham.
Between living by self imposed rules or being willing to do anything to actually stop evil. Had TDK Batman in the beginning of the film met a Joe Chill type in an alley, another child's parents would've been shot because he wouldn't have it in him to stop the criminal instead of looking to stop "crime". But by the end, when he saves little Jimmy Gordon, and kills Harvey. He learns what he has to become.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Playboy Bruce sure does surround himself with those European gals!

ANDREA VASILIOU

2011, Feature Film, Batman's Young Girlfriend, THE DARK KNIGHT RISES, Cape Road Productions Ltd., Christopher Nolan

http://www.spotlight.com/interactive/cv/3416-7861-9759

 

[kvz5]

Agreed. Bruce was like a mannequin in TDK, mainly because like Bruce in B89 I think they were subtly suggesting his humanity rippling away and becoming trapped in his persona and duty as Batman. Sure, he had that whole "day Gotham no longer needs Batman" thing as his rationalization, but it was really a fantasy and even Rachel saw through that. I personally don't think it was a fault with how our relationship as the audience changed from Begins, I think it was fully intentional... we "miss" the Begins Bruce because unlike who we were rooting for then, he's in a tragic, unrelatable place right now and the drama in Rises will be him finding himself again IMO.

What's exciting for me in TDKR is that like in BB we will experience that journey again with Bruce. We'll see him reach the lowest of lows and we'll see slowly get through that and eventually take Gotham back and kick all kinds of ass.

 

[The Joker]

Not at all, you are right those scenes are pretty good. The whole thing with Bruce's anxiety over his father's diary and how he'll never write in it again, was great stuff. Those scenes felt more like the comics than a lot of stuff in the previous films.

I actually will agree with you there. Those were the scenes that made the movie for me.

I'm not gonna stone you because I thought they were good to. I just feel that Kilmer's performance brought it down some.

His performance was kinda dry. Not phoned in at all but I just don't think he really fit the role very well.


I do however think he did a good job as bats and I love the way the question of whether or not Bruce and Batman can coexist was handled.
It would've been pulled off with a better actor.

Surprising but welcome responses

I quite liked Kilmer as Batman. I think he was better as Bruce Wayne than Batman, though his Batman wasn't too shabby. Just a little lacking in energy.

Well in a way I think that was the point of TDK, its comes out in the conversation Alfred and Bruce have towards the beginning of the movie, and throughout. How Bruce is overstepping his bounds, not realizing HE has limits, not separating from the Batman persona, Batman was meant to be a symbol not a symbiote, he can't see that and is blinded by his "duty"...that's the point of The Dark Knight, the difference between man and monster, between was is perceived right and what's actually doing good for Gotham.
Between living by self imposed rules or being willing to do anything to actually stop evil. Had TDK Batman in the beginning of the film met a Joe Chill type in an alley, another child's parents would've been shot because he wouldn't have it in him to stop the criminal instead of looking to stop "crime". But by the end, when he saves little Jimmy Gordon, and kills Harvey. He learns what he has to become.

Nicely put

 

[Nevincer]

What's exciting for me in TDKR is that like in BB we will experience that journey again with Bruce. We'll see him reach the lowest of lows and we'll see slowly get through that and eventually take Gotham back and kick all kinds of ass.

 

[Fudgie]

What's exciting for me in TDKR is that like in BB we will experience that journey again with Bruce. We'll see him reach the lowest of lows and we'll see slowly get through that and eventually take Gotham back and kick all kinds of ass.

As long as we're not bored silly like with the scenes of Bruce ordering costume parts and listening to Rachel's nagging, it'll be ok.

 

[kvz5]

^ No, this time it will be these two that will be nagging him:

Spoiler

I don't know about you all but I won't find that boring at all.

 

[Kane52630]

Woah, Marion Cotillard looks stunning in that photo.

 

[Travesty]

Woah, Marion Cotillard looks stunning in that photo.

Yeah, I was actually taken back by how hot she looked there.

 

[Nevincer]

Woah, Marion Cotillard looks stunning in that photo.

This.

 

[AnneFan]

What's exciting for me in TDKR is that like in BB we will experience that journey again with Bruce. We'll see him reach the lowest of lows and we'll see slowly get through that and eventually take Gotham back and kick all kinds of ass.

Indeed. Some characters plateau or don't have much in the way of character development once they reach the top. This film arc well and truly give us another hefty arc. It does take cues from BB in that he'll have to come back and retake Gotham, but different in that he's physically and mentally spent after actually being Batman.

 

[BuddhaWasABat]

Agreed. Bruce was like a mannequin in TDK, mainly because like Bruce in B89 I think they were subtly suggesting his humanity rippling away and becoming trapped in his persona and duty as Batman. Sure, he had that whole "day Gotham no longer needs Batman" thing as his rationalization, but it was really a fantasy and even Rachel saw through that. I personally don't think it was a fault with how our relationship as the audience changed from Begins, I think it was fully intentional... we "miss" the Begins Bruce because unlike who we were rooting for then, he's in a tragic, unrelatable place right now and the drama in Rises will be him finding himself again IMO.

I think a lot of people tend to confuse what you said here with Bale giving a bad acting performance or something to that nature in TDK. Some people don't seem to realize that it was intentional. TDK Bruce is suppose to be a Bruce fully lost inside his "monster". It wasn't a mistake. Good to know other people see this because a lot of people I have talked to abut this in the past don't really get it.

In TDKR, Bruce becomes that person Rachel said never returned at the end of BB. He will slowly "Rise" out of his state we saw him in in TDK and at the end it will feel glorious (and Zimmer will help out there!). However, we miht see him get pushed further into it by the middle of the movie before he comes back. It's going to be a crazy ride.

 

[kvz5]

I think a lot of people tend to confuse what you said here with Bale giving a bad acting performance or something to that nature in TDK. Some people don't seem to realize that it was intentional. TDK Bruce is suppose to be a Bruce fully lost inside his "monster". It wasn't a mistake. Good to know other people see this because a lot of people I have talked to abut this in the past don't really get it.

Yup. Bale's acting (to me) is clearly part of how they wanted to interpret Bruce. Different characters call for different types of acting. Sometimes it seems people were expecting him to do a loud type of performance (like Patrick Batemen) for Bruce when that wouldn't work. He balanced Heath's acting nicely IMO. The subtleties that he did particularly when he was Batman was amazing to me. That scene with him, Oldman and Eckhart was just brilliance all around.

 

[jmc]

Exactly. That's why I think some feel that TDK didn't feel like a Batman film in many ways.

It just didn't focus on Bruce and Bruce as Bats enough. Everything always felt more involved with the characters around Bruce/Bats rather than him.l

What makes the Batman mythology so great though is that Batman/Bruce can take a back seat and let other characters shine. I understand people wanting Batman to be the centre of attentions always, but the wealth of supporting characters leads to alternate and possibly greater story telling opportunities that should never be overlooked. Batman isn't just Bruce Wayne, it's an entire city of people. I've never really understood the notion that TDK doesn't feel like a Batman film when some of the character's most well known comic stories have him taking a back seat.