The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - Part 140

[Micromind]

To jam the bomb, Batman to locate the right truck, for that needed some time and some people who could assist him (it was not one man's job as time was running out, remember that the bomb was in a state of countdown).

If Bane got any hint of Batman's plan to jam the device, he would have moved the bomb to more safe and secure location (away from streets.), for that Batman had to create a distraction which was provided by Cops charging towards the Town Hall.

Plus, Batman knew very well that Bane would like to defeat him again personally before he pressed the button.

EDIT: Military had no reason to trust anything Batman said, to them he is not much different from Bane, Gordon and his men trusted him so it made more sense to get their help.

 

[The Knight]

EDIT: Military had no reason to trust anything Batman said, to them he is not much different from Bane, Gordon and his men trusted him so it made more sense to get their help.

Batman could have revealed his identity to the Government(surely city comes before identity). He could have told and proved that it was Wayne Enterprises who made the reactor and the core and hence he knew the actual state of the device. If Gordon(probably in his late fifties) could locate the right truck in time then it would have been cakewalk for Batman. The time spent by Batman to release the cops could have been spent for this purpose instead.

 

[Caped Crusader]

 

[Micromind]

Batman could have revealed his identity to the Government(surely city comes before identity). He could have told and proved that it was Wayne Enterprises who made the reactor and the core and hence he knew the actual state of the device. If Gordon(probably in his late fifties) could locate the right truck in time then it would have been cakewalk for Batman. The time spent by Batman to release the cops could have been spent for this purpose instead.

Convincing always takes time, and there was no way to know how Government would react to Bruce Wayne's plan, they could view him as a part of the problem.

 

[The Knight]

Convincing always takes time, and there was no way to know how Government would react to Bruce Wayne's plan, they could view him as a part of the problem.

I am aware of the dangers that accompany this plan-convincing the Government and hoping that they trust and understand;getting to the right truck undiscovered with probably all of Bane's army scattered in the city that too after Bruce had got himself captured to get Fox out and when he saved Gordon(both these activities were essential as Fox would give the jamming device and Gordon couldn't be sacrificed).

However,at the same time the risk Batman takes by declaring open war is too immense.The rest of the plan as portrayed in the film is perfect but vouching and hoping that Bane would personally like to avenge Ra's' death and place it above fulfilling his destiny is weird.

 

[BatLobster]

However,at the same time the risk Batman takes by declaring open war is too immense.The rest of the plan as portrayed in the film is perfect but vouching and hoping that Bane would personally like to avenge Ra's' death and place it above fulfilling his destiny is weird.

I think Batman simply knew that Bane would be furious that Batman had recovered and returned, and would want to personally break him again. So he correctly anticipates that Bane would welcome the war.

It's a risk to burn the signal, sure, but it serves as a rallying call which is also important. It's a way for Batman to get his army to rally behind him, and signals to the rest of the world that Gotham isn't giving up hope, which is pretty badass. It's not too outrageous a risk considering Bane/Talia could have blown Gotham away any time over the past 5 months. Even if he hadn't burned the signal, once the LOS saw the police army lining up in the streets the effect would be just the same- they would know war was coming and could detonate the bomb if they wanted. The signal jammer wasn't placed until after the fighting had started. Either way the risk was immense and Gotham was overwhelmingly the underdog. In that desperate situation I think it was probably a smart gamble for Batman to play the "personal" card. Not to mention, he had a plan for getting as many civilians off the island as possible too.

 

[The Knight]

I think Batman simply knew that Bane would be furious that Batman had recovered and returned, and would want to personally break him again. So he correctly anticipates that Bane would welcome the war.

It's a risk to burn the signal, sure, but it serves as a rallying call which is also important. It's a way for Batman to get his army to rally behind him, and signals to the rest of the world that Gotham isn't giving up hope, which is pretty badass. It's not too outrageous a risk considering Bane/Talia could have blown Gotham away any time over the past 5 months. Even if he hadn't burned the signal, once the LOS saw the police army lining up in the streets the effect would be just the same- they would know war was coming and could detonate the bomb if they wanted. The signal jammer wasn't placed until after the fighting had started. Either way the risk was immense and Gotham was overwhelmingly the underdog. In that desperate situation I think it was probably a smart gamble for Batman to play the "personal" card. Not to mention, he had a plan for getting as many civilians off the island as possible too.

The part about Bane wanting to break Batman personally is understandable as he kept Wayne alive to torment him as his victory would be incomplete without tormenting the League's betrayer.

As far as the LOS seeing the police is concerned, with the military in the picture the police is no longer involved. Batman places the jammer first and then signals the military to attack. Thus,the bomb can't be detonated and in the meantime the military forces can take down Bane and his men. The only problem is to convince the Government to follow Batman's plan.But given the dire situation, I am sure the Government would have understood and would have acted upon Batman's plan.

In a nutshell, the movie's plan risks premature detonation of bomb whereas the military plan involves risk of refusal at military's part(like what happens with the Blake when he officer on the bridge is not ready to accept that the bomb's going to blow). But I guess if Bruce Wayne, one of the richest,most powerful people in the world(who is also Batman) tries to persuade,nothing is impossible.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah, in theory the military plan could work, but the main issue really wasn't neutralizing the LOS. The real point of the attack was to focus most of the LOS's manpower in one spot, so it would be easier to get the bomb back to the reactor (or off the island as a plan B).

Once the bomb is taken out of the commission, the LOS would be screwed even if they had won the battle against the police, because the military would now be free to intervene with no chance of a nuclear detonation.

 

[Micromind]

The real point of the attack was to focus most of the LOS's manpower in one spot, so it would be easier to get the bomb back to the reactor (or off the island as a plan B).

Once the bomb is taken out of the commission, the LOS would be screwed even if they had won the battle against the police, because the military would now be free to intervene with no chance of a nuclear detonation.

^^ This.

And after jamming the signal from the remote, Batman had to deactivate the device, as for the issue of taking down the Bane's army, the police were competent enough to do that, so military was not really needed.

 

[solidsnake86]

Why didn't Batman take the military's help in the end of TDKR? In the movie he basically takes down Bane's army with his own officers' army which acts as a distraction as in the backdrop Gordon jams the bomb. But when Batman proclaims his return(the burning bat scene),he risks Bane's detonation of the bomb in fear of failure of his plan at Batman's hands who could have stopped Bane(and at that time the device is not jammed).

So,in my opinion,the best and most logical plan for Batman would have been to explain to the Government the situation and to arrange for a cooperated attack. In this attack Batman would jam the device(instead of Gordon) and then signal the military to launch an attack(most probably aerial as the bridges were down). In this way,Bane would be caught off guard and chances of success would be higher if Talia's treachery is not taken into account which wasn't taken into account anyway by Batman when he made his plan.Someone please point out the flaws in my plan,if any exist.

The flaw is that it just wouldnt be entertaining. Its like when batman and catwoman are in the bat flying away from the rooftop. Batman could have blasted bane away with a missle and the film could have cut to the credits.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

The flaw is that it just wouldnt be entertaining. Its like when batman and catwoman are in the bat flying away from the rooftop. Batman could have blasted bane away with a missle and the film could have cut to the credits.

Batman doesn't kill people, even when it leads to death of innocent people. But I get what you're saying

 

[CConn]

Batman: I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you from the missile I just fired at you.

 

[solidsnake86]

Batman: I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you from the missile I just fired at you.

I can picture it now, it would be even more awesome in 3d

 

[HighFivingMF]

Bane: "I thought you didn't kill people, Batmon!"
Batman: "Whatever, **** you."
*launches missile*

 

[shauner111]

Bane: "I thought you didn't kill people, Batmon!"
Batman: "Whatever, **** you."
*launches missile*

 

[the dmg]

Haha...

 

[The Batman]

Bane: "I thought you didn't kill people, Batmon!"
Batman: "Whatever, **** you."
*launches missile*

Replace "Bane" with "LOS truck Driver" and you have the climax of TDKR

 

[Marvolo]

I don't see the problem with batman firing missiles at the truck. He isn't using the guns or the missles to actively kill anyone. He is attempting to make the truck driver go were he wants him to by firing missiles and bullets around the truck. If the truck driver chooses to continue to drive into the line of fire its the truck drivers own damn fault. If he had thought "I should probably do what Batman is wanting me to do " he would have lived. Batman wants him to go east so batman fires the missile to the west side. Truck driver stupidly turns west into the missile. Think of it like this, your walking up to a border fence, and the patrolmen begin firing volleys of rounds in front of you to direct you away from the fence is it their fault if you continue to walk into the line of fire and are hit? No. It's your own fault. And if you wanna get technical the missle didn't kill Talia. The truck swan diving into concrete did. She had the ability to stop the truck long before that.

Now, that being said, Bruce should have realized Talia wasn't going to surrender or stop, but a city and countless lives were at stake. He didn't have a whole lot of options. He couldn't just politely ask her to surrender or do much of anything other than what he did.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

What about when he charged at the guy driving the garbage truck with the sturdier tumbler in TDK? I guess he just hoped that ceiling was soft enough or the driver was Hammerhead.

 

[solidsnake86]

Now, that being said, Bruce should have realized Talia wasn't going to surrender or stop, but a city and countless lives were at stake. He didn't have a whole lot of options. He couldn't just politely ask her to surrender or do much of anything other than what he did.

Clearly he could have bought one of those helicopters that has the magnet attached and lifted the whole truck up towards the reactor. He is just too busy being gimmicky with the bat, lol.

 

[Marvolo]

What about when he charged at the guy driving the garbage truck with the sturdier tumbler in TDK? I guess he just hoped that ceiling was soft enough or the driver was Hammerhead.

That isn't the event I am currently discussing. It is antirely different thing, and what applies to one incident doesn't apply to all.

Clearly he could have bought one of those helicopters that has the magnet attached and lifted the whole truck up towards the reactor. He is just too busy being gimmicky with the bat, lol.

I guess you are joking, but he wouldn't have known of the truck until after entering gotham and by then it would have been hard to aquire anything of the sort. I bet the next bat will have a magnet lol.

 

[solidsnake86]

^I am joking. I just find it ridiculous when posters say, "why didn't batman do this instead." Its a movie, if you begin to question everything, most films would not make any sense.

Also, depending on if bruce had sound on the tv in the prison, he probably would have heard bane's speech that the bomb was mobile.

 

[Superherofun]

Just a thought, probably already brought up.

So if there were a Batman 4 and most people on here are concerned about JGL's lack of training to takeover The Batman and with Bruce Wayne retired.

Wouldn't that have opened the door to the perfect storyline.

- Bruce retires
- "Robin" takes over
- Joker comes back (Heath Ledger, RIP)
- Tortures and kills The New Batman
- Forces Bruce out of retirement realizing his true destiny
- Realizes he can never give up The Batman with the extreme guilt he now feels for leaving "Robin" in charge

Just a thought.

 

[Marvolo]

^I am joking. I just find it ridiculous when posters say, "why didn't batman do this instead." Its a movie, if you begin to question everything, most films would not make any sense.

Also, depending on if bruce had sound on the tv in the prison, he probably would have heard bane's speech that the bomb was mobile.

Yeah, you can't really ask why he didn't do this or that, because most movies won't hold up to that question. As has been brought up, Batman could have taken out Bane on the rooftop or at least captured him somehow.

On another note, I really wish Nolan had brought back the bats. Not counting the ones in the pit. Would have been awesome to see Bruce use the bats against Bane in their fight.

 

[solidsnake86]

Just a thought, probably already brought up.

So if there were a Batman 4 and most people on here are concerned about JGL's lack of training to takeover The Batman and with Bruce Wayne retired.

Wouldn't that have opened the door to the perfect storyline.

- Bruce retires
- "Robin" takes over
- Joker comes back (Heath Ledger, RIP)
- Tortures and kills The New Batman
- Forces Bruce out of retirement realizing his true destiny
- Realizes he can never give up The Batman with the extreme guilt he now feels for leaving "Robin" in charge

Just a thought.

I would rather a batman 4 take place between begins and the dark knight. You put in villains like the penguin and the riddler, have more of a crime driven story than a full scale destroy the city plot.

I'm not crazy about your idea, don't really find it necessary to bring the joker back and defeats the purpose of bruce moving on from batman.