The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 145

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight Rises' started by Thread Manager, May 13, 2013.

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  1. The Joker

    The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    Alright I want to see some factual statistics. I've given up asking you for some form of proof that there was TDK 2.0 claims. You haven't got any. So lets try another one. Show me some factual proof that only a few disliked TDKR.

    Then you can say "Of course only a few didn't enjoy it" as though you're stating a well known fact.

    The general audience enjoyed Bay's Transformers, too. You're going to have to do better than using that as an excuse. Audiences enjoyed lots of flawed movies. Are you going to try and tell me that movies like Transformers doesn't have a lot of detractors, too?

    There's that hearsay again.

    More fool you. Why you would want to stand by an opinion about other people and their verbal claims that you can't back up is beyond me.

    Correct me where I'm wrong then.

    And even more have disagreed.

    So we win then since you're all about popularity numbers rather then facts.

    Oh my god, how can someone be so blind? Posters listing complaints is in reference to the ones who said they THINK his heart was not in the movie based on how flawed it was, and a step down from the previous movies. They are not saying it's a concrete fact. They are saying it as an opinion.

    Why oh why do you struggle to understand such a simple concept?

    No, you haven't. You have been saying people wanted a TDK 2.0. The only way you could know something like that is if they said so. So if they did lets see some examples.

    No, nobody can. Spider-Man 2 did not polarize fans and was never accused of being a half hearted attempt by Raimi.

    Why would I hate that? The AFI acknowledges movies like The Hangover, too. Your problem is you can't defend this movie with a competent argument so you turn around and say "Nyah nyah nyah more people agree with me than you. The AFI liked it so there".

    It's pathetic.

    Here's another example. Trying to quote more numbers. The audience rating on RT for Transformers is only 3% less than TDKR and 1% less than Batman Begins. I guess that means it's almost as good as those two since the audience enjoyed it almost as much. Then there's The Avengers which has a higher audience and critic rating than TDKR so it must be better than it right?

    Right? I mean that's all you believe in isn't it, Anno. Popularity numbers dictate quality. My gang is bigger than your gang schoolyard type mentality.

    I have no idea what you just said there. You said "Ah finally you say that is an opinion as well" as though I have been denying it to this point.

    Exactly. But at least they are basing their OPINIONS on the quality of his work instead of nothing at all.

    Flattered Kane. Though for team TDKR I suggest Batlobster. He is the most competent debater when it comes to that movie.
     
    #401
    Last edited: May 16, 2013
  2. Anno_Domini

    Anno_Domini Well-Known Member

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    Lol. That is all and that will be my reply.

    I'm on the same boat as Shikamaru...I just have too little energy to just care about debating anymore. Both sides can equally be tempered and stubborn, so have your "win" if you want it.

    And I'd applaud the idea of BatLobster taking my place in Team TDKR.

    BatLobster, I'm tagging you in.
     
    #402
  3. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    Heh. Appreciate the endorsement Joker :cwink:

    Anno...get the tables!!!!!!
     
    #403
  4. Anno_Domini

    Anno_Domini Well-Known Member

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  5. georgec

    georgec Not a hero

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    I usually can't keep up and sit out most discussions about TDKR as well. It's exhausting just reading along. :p
     
    #405
  6. craigdbfan

    craigdbfan Well-Known Member

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    I just wanted to say that after watching the Batman: Arkham Origins trailer it reminded me how awesome of a job Bale did with the infamous Batman scowl.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #406
  7. Tequilla

    Tequilla Well-Known Member

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    Rises>TDK>BB>Returns>Batman>66>who cares

    Best moment in the trilogy is The Will to Act. I've come to accept it ,although i love joker's interrogation and bat vs bane in the sewers.
     
    #407
  8. The_Raganork

    The_Raganork Well-Known Member

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    TDK and BB will always be tied for best Batman film, for me. I say this as films with Batman in them not films that adhere strictly to Batman gospel. For that we can jump to MotP (which I think is good but really a bit over lauded sometimes).

    In terms of just being films and the accomplishments they've made they really are awe-inspiring for any filmmaker. Put aside Batman's fledgling credibility pre-BB, BB is still a great, amazing film. It took Batman and presented him a light many people hadn't seen before. Some will say it just adheres to the comics but I still think it's unique from the comics in a lot of ways. From the non-linear structuring of Bruce past, which could have been completely confusing if handled the wrong way, to the build up to establishing points of familiarity in the Batman lore, Batman Begins truly is one of Nolan's best works from all standpoints. Even his shortcomings are marginalized in his inability to shoot fight sequences with the quick choppy editing. Some didn't like it but it's great when a filmmaker can tie editing like that into the aesthetic of the film. That not seeing Batman fight was all about the intimidation he possessed during the film. Not to mention Ra's al Ghul, Gordon and Crane.

    If I had to pick a singular moment from that film it would probably be the scene where Joe Chill is killed. It's a small moment I know but I always like the way it rolls in and out the story providing the catalyst for young Bruce and it also perfectly shapes up how Gotham truly is at the time. I only wish Rises would have pushed the similarity of Bruce to Joe Chill in Talia's eyes. Bruce and Talia both orphans looking to avenge their parent(s) death. Talia is a mirror image of Bruce in that moment and a reminder of what he could have become if he didn't have people like Rachel and Alfred to anchor him.

    ...and then there's TDK.

    It's no surprise I love TDK, it's one of the fews movies I consider perfect despite it's flaws. Yes there are some choreography blemishes here and there (I'm looking at you Hong Kong) but the film seems to make an error then make up for that error in a grand way the next moment. I did like the new Gotham, I liked that it was average American big city. I liked the politics of things down to the mob. I liked the complexity of characters like Maroni, who is a bad guy but NOT bad like the Joker and not willing to be bad like the Joker. I like the team assembling to fight crime in Batman, Harvey and Gordon and I love the Joker.

    I mean, when I first saw TDK Joker's first, post-prologue, scene with the mob was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO satisfying, I felt like people could have gotten up and left then and been totally happy. I saw TDK about 30 times in the theaters and only after three weeks of going did people stop clapping at the end of that scene. There was an electricity in the theater that opening night that is something I've never felt before and when the titles came up I and everyone else there felt as if we just embarked on some amazing journey. I'll never forget that feeling and for that Nolan will always have my respect.

    The interrogation scene. I mean...you've seen it, you know what I'm talking about.

    TDKR

    I had a lot of fun surrounding TDKR.
     
    #408
  9. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    I don't think MoTP strictly adheres to Batman "gospel" anymore than Nolan's films actually. They both create love interests for Bruce, only MoTP depicts it in a way that Bruce was ready to give up everything and choose love over his crusade in the first place. That's a hugely unique wrinkle to the mythos.
     
    #409
  10. regwec

    regwec Make Mine Marble

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    He has contemplated giving it all up for lots of people- Silver St Cloud and even Jezebel Jett, if I recall rightly, for a start.
     
    #410
  11. Kane52630

    Kane52630 Just Some Nut

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    I have no problem saying that every frame of MotP was perfect.
     
    #411
  12. The_Raganork

    The_Raganork Well-Known Member

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    While I don't agree I don't think you could have pick many better candidates for that honor.

    It is a great film.
     
    #412
  13. Tacit Ronin

    Tacit Ronin Well-Known Member

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  14. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    What I mean is that he came so close to not even being Batman in the first place. The "life that could have been" angle that was presented.

    I love MoTP to be clear, I prefer when adaptations can add things to the mythos.
     
    #414
  15. Kane52630

    Kane52630 Just Some Nut

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    Perchance to Dream was another one where they dwell into that idea of Bruce not being Batman.
     
    #415
  16. The_Raganork

    The_Raganork Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but what everyone is saying is that that particular idea isn't new to the mythos. Not that MotP is unoriginal but just you're incorrect in the idea that Bruce leaving Batman for a woman is something that hadn't happened in the mythos before.
     
    #416
  17. The Joker

    The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    Nolan's personal favorite scene in TDK.
     
    #417
  18. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    It wasn't the quitting for a woman part I meant to cite as different, it's the idea that he came so close to never even donning a Bat-suit. To me there's a difference, because it puts an even more tragic overtone to him being "imprisoned" as Batman. And I love that.

    To be fair, both MoTP and BB touched aspects of Bruce's origin story without necessarily "contradicting" the lore, because the established lore left many gaps in that section of Bruce's life. It's more like filling in bits of story that we never got to see before. Similar to what Scott Snyder is hyping his upcoming Zero Year run to be all about.
     
    #418
  19. milost

    milost Well-Known Member

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    And the great thing about that is, he simply can't accept that life. He looks for holes in the dream because he's that obsessed with being Batman.

    I love the fact that in Batman Beyond we learn that he refers to himself as "Batman" in his own mind.
     
    #419
  20. doobie

    doobie Well-Known Member

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    Well there is a shock. I just turned on an old episode of the British sitcom Black Books, and who is on it but Colin Mcfarlane, (Nolan's Loeb), playing a police chief no less.



    [​IMG]
     
    #420
  21. georgec

    georgec Not a hero

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    ^ I almost didn't recognize him. Did Loeb even smile once in BB or TDK?
     
    #421
  22. regwec

    regwec Make Mine Marble

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    Loeb was a strange character in BB: not part of the problem, nor part of the solution. Unlike most Nolan characters, he didn't really sermonise except to describe his withdrawal from it all.
     
    #422
  23. Travesty

    Travesty Well-Known Member

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    Count me in as Team-BB.

    :batman:
    :supes:
     
    #423
  24. kvz5

    kvz5 HBIC

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    [​IMG]
     
    #424
  25. JackWhite

    JackWhite Third Man

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    This should probably go in TDK forum, but it doesn't get much traffic these days.

    Aaron Eckhart on working with Heath:

    [YT]u6_2dmm4LnA[/YT]
     
    #425
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