The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 145

[Travesty]

Last CONFIRMED sighting means there could be plenty of UNCONFIRMED sightings.

You're debating on what is confirmed, compared to what "could be", while also avoiding things that Nolan has said very bluntly.

It's almost the same faulty logic people use with bigfoot. Nobody can confirm bigfoot is real, therefore, bigfoot must be out there.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Except nothing is confirmed that Batman did quit. Nolan only mentioned the eight year gap...why would he ever mention a seven year gap where he quit a year after TDK's events? Lol.

I stand on what I've been saying.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Really? Nolan saying the 8 year represents him hanging up the cape and cowl doesn't confirm anything?

Pull the other one it rings.



Oh look you said it anyway. Saying there COULD be doesn't mean there was. That's why the onus is on those of you who believe there was Batman activity post TDK to supply some proof of it.

Otherwise your assertion of could have been is worthless. A million and one things could have happened. Without any proof of them they are nothing but baseless conjecture.

Hey, believe what you want. At least I'm not trying to bang my ideas over your head

 

[The Joker]

You're debating on what is confirmed, compared to what "could be", while also avoiding things that Nolan has said very bluntly.

It's almost the same faulty logic people use with bigfoot. Nobody can confirm bigfoot is real, therefore, bigfoot must be out there.

Hey, believe what you want. At least I'm not trying to bang my ideas over your head

That's because you don't have any ideas. Just an unfounded belief that you can't back up.

 

[Travesty]

Except nothing is confirmed that Batman did quit. Nolan only mentioned the eight year gap...why would he ever mention a seven year gap where he quit a year after TDK's events? Lol.

So Nolan saying that he hung up the cape and cowl for 8 years, means that Bruce went out as Batman....with another cape and cowl?

 

[Anno_Domini]

Okay guys, think what ya want pals

And Travesty...you can't be that ridiculous to not know what my reply meant

 

[Travesty]

And Travesty...you can't be that ridiculous to not know what my reply meant

I don't think I'm the one being ridiculous here, bud.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Lol, I don't view it as being ridiculed, so it's all good bud.

I see two stubborn fellows just hating it that I don't read Nolan's quote as you both do, haha.

 

[Travesty]

 

[Anno_Domini]

 

[georgec]

I think some people are missing the point Anno Domini is making.

Big Foot may not exist, but there are certainly people who claim to have seen him. Although, they don't have evidence so their claimed sightings are deemed 'unconfirmed'.

All Anno Domini is saying is that it's possible in the time after TDK that some kid, or some guy on the street, or some journalist, or ANYBODY could have, at some point, CLAIMED to have seen Batman. This could have been because there might still have been Batman wannabes like the ones from the beginning of TDK, or people were just making it up to generate news stories.

But in a case like that, without concrete evidence or confirmation from reputable sources these would all be labeled as 'unconfirmed'. That means someone says they saw something but they don't have proof. Do we really need to cover this?

Jeez, all this hair-pulling over one basic comment Anno made about something that is a remote possibility in a living, breathing world that probably wouldn't completely forget about Batman after his last actual appearance. It is not implausible, LOL, and in fact it's quite likely. Imagine all the press in Gotham trying to figure out what happened, trying to sell stories based on 'unconfirmed' sightings of the Batman.

This conflicts neither with Nolan's quote nor the concept of Batman being retired. It is not a difficult or complex idea.

What are people even trying to argue at this point...

 

[The Joker]

Nobody is missing his point. How can it be possible when Chris Nolan himself said Bruce hung up the cape and cowl in those 8 years? Do you ignore that because it clashes with what you want to believe?

Even if he had not said that, and you arguing this by saying it's possible he was Batman in those 8 years is as irrelevant as saying it's possible he went through a phase where he liked to walk around Wayne Manor in womens dresses, too.

You're just talking about scenarios that have no kind of confirmation to their existence.

 

[Travesty]

Nobody is missing his point. How can it be possible when Chris Nolan himself said Bruce hung up the cape and cowl in those 8 years?

Exactly, it's just the easiest explanation that keeps being brushed under the rug, along with the obvious quotes in the movie, and of course, Bruce's knee being messed up.

It all adds up to 2+2=4, but some people are making out to be 2+2=89,452: it doesn't make sense.....

And again, nobody can have claimed to have seen Batman, because that would go against him vanishing, which is exactly what the movie tells us he did. If he vanished, there couldn't be rumors of him being active or even "unconfirmed sightings", cause that would play into the notion of him....existing. Cool, Blake said "confirmed"(which some of you are debating that there could be "unconfirmed sightings"), but later he said "vanished". It just doesn't make any kind of sense if there were rumors/sightings, when it clearly said he's vanished. Anything that is "unconfirmed" means there is suspicion, but when someone "vanishes", there is no suspicion, he ceases to exist.

 

[georgec]

Nobody is missing his point. How can it be possible when Chris Nolan himself said Bruce hung up the cape and cowl in those 8 years? Do you ignore that because it clashes with what you want to believe?

What are you even talking about? Where has anyone claimed that Bruce didn't hang up the cape? Show me where I even remotely implied this. Did you even bother reading my last post? LOL you're just trying to insult me based on your deliberate misconceptions about the idea people are kicking around.

Even if he had not said that, and you arguing this by saying it's possible he was Batman in those 8 years is as irrelevant as saying it's possible he went through a phase where he liked to walk around Wayne Manor in womens dresses, too.

You're just talking about scenarios that have no kind of confirmation to their existence.

AD and a few people kicked around the idea that some people in Gotham would claim they've seen Batman. Nobody said they actually saw him. Do you deny that people sometimes claim to see things they didn't actually see? Or that people sometimes think they've seen something they want to believe is there?

Imagine someone walking by a dark alley four days after Harvey's death and seeing a shadow. His imagination plays with him and convinces him he just saw Batman. It wasn't Batman, but the guy thinks he saw Batman. He reports it to the police. They investigate the area but find nothing. They record it as an "unconfirmed sighting".

NOBODY IS SAYING BRUCE WAS BATMAN AFTER TDK. THEY ARE SAYING THAT IT IS POSSIBLE PEOPLE CLAIM TO HAVE SEEN BATMAN DESPITE OBVIOUSLY NOT SEEING HIM SINCE BATMAN WAS RETIRED.

There is nothing hard to understand about this concept. You are just being difficult and attacking people for things they haven't said.

All this uproar over one simple idea that doesn't conflict with any notion in either movie whatsoever. It's a couple of fans shooting the s**t and brainstorming about how the public responded to Batman's sudden absence. And for some reason this angers you?

Your entire false argument is based around your unwillingness to understand what an "unconfirmed sighting" is. Think about it..."unconfirmed".

Just because someone could claim they saw Batman doesn't mean it was actually Batman. Do you deny the notion that people have ever claimed to see something that wasn't what they claim?

All this bellyaching over nothing.

 

[Travesty]

Imagine someone walking by a dark alley four days after Harvey's death and seeing a shadow. His imagination plays with him and convinces him he just saw Batman. It wasn't Batman, but the guy thinks he saw Batman. He reports it to the police. They investigate the area but find nothing. They record it as an "unconfirmed sighting".

NOBODY IS SAYING BRUCE WAS BATMAN AFTER TDK. THEY ARE SAYING THAT IT IS POSSIBLE PEOPLE CLAIM TO HAVE SEEN BATMAN DESPITE OBVIOUSLY NOT SEEING HIM SINCE BATMAN WAS RETIRED.

Again, even if people have suspicion of Batman being around, that goes against him vanishing. It's just that easy.

 

[Kane52630]

If I may retort to the unconfirmed sighting debate....

 

[Travesty]

I was expecting some kind of Tron Legacy or some Daft Punk.

Son, I am disappoint.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

They also wrote Daggett to say the line "Eight years. And he has to pick tonight." during Batman's return. Probably just to emphasize the point along with Daggett's dismay.

 

[georgec]

Again, even if people have suspicion of Batman being around, that goes against him vanishing. It's just that easy.

Nope, it doesn't. Because if there's no proof or evidence he's still considered to be vanished and gone from the originally reported date.

If someone reported seeing Batman but had nothing to back it up, their claim becomes discarded. That doesn't mean Batman is back at all. It means someone made an unsubstantiated claim that they saw Batman.

LOL how are you guys even drawing the conclusion that someone's unconfirmed, unsubstantiated claim means Batman didn't retire at the end of TDK, or that this somehow conflicts with Nolan's quote? Nobody's disputing that at all.

There is no crossover or conflict of interest between:

a) Batman retiring at the end of TDK
b) someone claiming to have seen Batman

We saw Batman wannabes in TDK. Is it impossible one of those guys tried to be Batman after Harvey's death? Nobody is saying this actually happened, it is a hypothetical scenario based on what we know from the movies and how people might behave in the wake of Batman's disappearance.

People have claimed to see Jimmy Hoffa, Amelia Earhart, and other famous individuals who 'vanished'. Does that mean those people didn't disappear, just because someone claimed they saw them? Nope, it doesn't. Last I checked they're still regarded as missing/disappeared/vanished since the original reported dates.

Nobody says, "Oh, someone claims to have seen Jimmy Hoffa. That means he didn't vanish." They say, "Oh, someone thought they saw Hoffa, but there's no proof. So, he's still missing since 1975."

 

[Travesty]

Nope, it doesn't. Because if there's no proof or evidence he's still considered to be vanished and gone.

If someone reported seeing Batman but had nothing to back it up, their claim becomes discarded. That doesn't mean Batman is back at all. It means someone made an unsubstantiated claim that they saw Batman.

People have claimed to see Jimmy Hoffa, Amelia Earhart, and other famous disappeared persons. Does that mean those people didn't disappear, just because someone claimed they saw them?

Dude:

-Unconfirmed= suspicion.

-Vanished= ceases to exist.

I mean, do you understand what "vanishes" means? Nobody can make any kind of claims, cause there wouldn't be anything to claim, cause he...vanished. There would be no rumors or unconfirmed sightings, again, cause he vanished.

And your example is a bit lopsided. You're automatically equating "missing" with "vanishing", when that's not what we're even talking about, but ok.

 

[Kane52630]

I was expecting some kind of Tron Legacy or some Daft Punk.

Son, I am disappoint.

 

[BatLobster]

But with the word "sighting" or "last appearance" I could argue the other way and say that both of those also lend themselves to the whole ninja theory. As stated above, just because he wasn't sighted, doesn't mean he wasn't out there. So again, I'd love to hear how Nolan could have Blake say something that would mean that Batman ceased to be Batman after Dent died. I think at this point, even if Nolan stated that he stopped being Batman after that night that people would still argue he was. Its kinda hard to form a counter point when people point to a lack of evidence...as being evidence. Again, why would my theory that he fought Darkseid in between films be any less valid? Mr. Reese even said that perhaps Lucious next project could be a 'spaceship".

But those draw less attention to it then what we have.

All I'm saying is that there could easily be a TDKR prequel comic/story/whatever that told the story of what Batman was up to, and it wouldn't seem too much like a retcon nor would it clash with the movies tonally (like the Darkseid example would). I'll make up a scenario right now just for the heck of it:

A month or so after the events of TDK, the Dent Act is being written and Mayor Garcia is expected to sign it. The bill would be unprecedented for Gotham, basically giving no rights to anyone convicted of a crime that has a probable link to organized crime (there'd be a huge list of criteria). A leak in the mayor's office leads to Alberto Falcone (who has now come of age and wants to take over his father's empire/fill the power vacuum) and his small upstart crew attempting to make a move to stop it from happening. They hire a highly skilled sniper/bounty hunter (let's call him Deadshot) and put a hit out on all the city councilmen who support the Dent Act in an attempt to shake Garcia into reconsidering. After the second killing happens, Bruce immediately picks up on the potential pattern and relation to the Dent Act, fearing the mayor's life could be in danger. Using the Bat-computer in the new cave, he hacks into the police database and starts unraveling the case. From there- all sorts of detective work ensues- types of bullets, points of entry all that kind of stuff. Prowling rooftops at night searching for clues left behind on some of Deadshot's possible vantage points. Going completely undetected by anyone. No vehicles, no destruction. At this point, his knee hurts when he walks on it, but he's still too stubborn to do anything about it despite Alfred's pleas for him to get it looked at. I'm not gonna fill in every detail, but you get the idea. Batman is able to get to the bottom of everything and save the mayor's life- either through picking up on Deadshot's patterns and using the element of surprise, or getting to Alberto Faclone and using his "Dark Knight" image- threatening to kill him and his crew one by one the way he killed Dent and those corrupt cops if he doesn't call everything off and leave town. Saying it's a new era in Gotham and there's no room in it for the scum, etc. The end of the story would see the mayor signing the Dent Act, and Bruce's resulting conflict of emotions. His sacrifice is now truly vindicated, and yet he's just help make himself obsolete in Gotham. All the men Dent prosecuted will be off the streets for good, and the day he told Rachel seems to have finally arrived.

Again, this has nothing to do with what Nolan said. My argument is that the above story or something like it could exist in an "Star Wars EU" sort of way, where it's not officially canon, yet it doesn't contradict anything that is stated by the movie. And given that we already have some "in canon but not really" items like Gotham Knight and the viral marketing, I don't mind thinking up stories that could exist in that same realm.

Why do I bother to make such a seemingly pointless argument? Uh, because it's fun! As a fan, my imagination can't help but ponder this type of stuff, provided it feels like there's a gap in the story where things can happen without it having any effect on the story being told on screen...which 8 years gives plenty of room for. If it weren't for the "last confirmed sighting" line and the fact that we are led to believe that Bruce has indeed used the new Batcave, I wouldn't be entertaining these thoughts nearly as much though.

 

[shauner111]

Hehehe told you guys I was a s**t disturber. Im only sorry I brought this back up for the reason that Anno seems to be getting mauled here for no reason. I agree with him.

Maybe we're making assumptions, sure. I believe Batman continued his quest for about a year or so after TDK. And not every night. I don't really care about the facts to be honest, it's just what I choose to believe because that's how I interpret Blake's line, and I don't see Bats hanging it up completely until the Dent Act passed.

But this all started up again because of the Jett quote I posted. He spoke with Nolan and he got the feeling that Bats was active after TDK but not for long.

It's an assumption on Jett's part, but something must have been said for a person to get the vibe that Bats continued. Maybe one of us should go on that Batman on Film facebook page, find the recent post and reply to it..see what he says about Nolan.

 

[Snow Queen]

I think this is the most ridiculous argument I've heard since "ten or six" in TDK.

 

[shauner111]

Dude:

-Unconfirmed= suspicion.

-Vanished= ceases to exist.

I mean, do you understand what "vanishes" means? Nobody can make any kind of claims, cause there wouldn't be anything to claim, cause he...vanished. There would be no rumors or unconfirmed sightings, again, cause he vanished.

Dude, that vanished line came from Blake. His character is just assuming that batman vanished after that night because there were no confirmed sightings. But there could have been unconfirmed sightings.