The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 146

[Ryan]

Stop making excuses for people. A lot of us found the script to be weak, not because it wasn't what we wanted, but because... guess what... we thought it was weak. The Dark Knight wasn't what I wanted, but that's a very strong script right there. TDKR's script is filled with lazy dialogue ("No, I came back to stop you." "The Clean Slate? Where you blah blah blah, blah blah blah"), plot conveniences (Bruce finding a way into Gotham off screen, Bruce and Selina falling in love and running away together after barely a handful of interactions just because the story needs them to, all of the cops in Gotham going into the sewers at once) and some very uneven pacing.

Maybe to you these things are not problems, or you didn't find them to be weak. But plenty of us did, so please, do not make excuses that we didn't like it because it wasn't what we wanted.

Bingo!

 

[BatLobster]

Lol, every time I see that Ryan has the last post in a thread, I'm 99% sure the post is going to be "Bingo!".

No offense, Ry

 

[kvz5]

 

[The Batman]

Phantasm kicked all kinds of ass with his?/Her? posts.

And yes, Gordon's role in TDKR was his weakest in the trilogy. Gary was fantastic as always though...save for his "Shackles" speech...which I needed subtitles to understand.

 

[BatLobster]

Heh, the "shackles" speech was actually my favorite moment of his in the film. Powerful stuff.

 

[The Batman]

^ I liked the part where he talks about having a friend to plunge his hands in the dirt...just the initial "Somewhere far out there...." part was hard to understand. I don't know if it was sound mix problems, but he sounded too low or something.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

''ShAcKlEs''...

Gary really had a weird pronunciation and volume thing going on with that speech.

 

[GremlinZilla89]

It's right simply because it is? No. I don't have to accept it just because it is Chris Nolan's vision. I can critique Chris Nolan's vision. My opinions aren't founded on sheer phenomenology. Just because it is Chris Nolan's vision doesn't change the fact that

- There are massive story inconsistencies
- There are two-dimensional characters like John Blake who suck the life out of the story
- The story has a lack of thematic coherence and direction, largely because it is based on too many different ideas / themes (Dark Knight Returns, No Man's Land, Knightfall, Tale of Two Cities, + the Batman / Robin relationship, + the Batman / Catwoman relationship... its waaaaaay too much)

Kinda like The Dark Knight?

 

[Snow Queen]

''ShAcKlEs''...

Gary really had a weird pronounciation and volume thing going on with that speech.

I thought it worked well there, however, he has this one really weird pronunciation during the climax when he yells "Get ready!". The delivery on that line just doesn't work for me.

 

[JackWhite]

When Gordon was arrested by "the people" I thought that scene was going to be intense - with the people of Gotham all riled up about him being a part of the Dent cover up. But all we got was Gordon telling Crane how unfair his court proceedings were. What could have been, but sadly wasn't.

 

[The Joker]

When Gordon was arrested by "the people" I thought that scene was going to be intense - with the people of Gotham all riled up about him being a part of the Dent cover up. But all we got was Gordon telling Crane how unfair his court proceedings were. What could have been, but sadly wasn't.

Yeah that was one of the big disappointments with TDKR. Not enough of a general reaction and uproar to the big cover up. Just Blake's flowery moral speech to Gordon.

Meh.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Yeah that was one of the big disappointments with TDKR. Not enough of a general reaction and uproar to the big cover up. Just Blake's flowery moral speech to Gordon.

Meh.

Blake in general is just meh.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Gotham never really reacted to anything in TDKR. I saw the trailers and expected this huge story about society falling apart and chaos everywhere and instead Gotham seemed like just a setting, not a character. Unlike the first two films. But I'm beating a dead horse there.

 

[JackWhite]

Gotham never really reacted to anything in TDKR. I saw the trailers and expected this huge story about society falling apart and chaos everywhere and instead Gotham seemed like just a setting, not a character. Unlike the first two films. But I'm beating a dead horse there.

I felt the Gotham POV was setup very nicely in the first act - The one orphan washing up on the shore from the sewers, his little brother telling Blake there is "work" in the sewers, the paparazzi going nuts over Bruce attending the charity ball, Selina mocking Bruce about his social status and the quick shot of the rich folk in the background snapping open lobster tails. The stock exchange scene was great. Foley's "I won't risk my men for your money" and even the other cop saying his money is in his mattress, great stuff. But it falls dead flat in the second act after Bane takes over.

I've actually really thought about this for awhile, and I wonder if Nolan tried to "cheat" or save time and used the montage at Blackgate during Bane's speech to reflect the social upheaval so he could move the story forward. Obviously I feel this wasn't the best approach, but it's the only answer I could come up with in regards to the lack of seeing the fallout of Bane's initial takeover of Gotham.

 

[GremlinZilla89]

Gotham was just as much a character in TDKR than the other two.

 

[The Joker]

Gotham was just as much a character in TDKR than the other two.

No it wasn't. Not even close to it.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I've actually really thought about this for awhile, and I wonder if Nolan tried to "cheat" or save time and used the montage at Blackgate during Bane's speech to reflect the social upheaval so he could move the story forward. Obviously I feel this wasn't the best approach, but it's the only answer I could come up with in regards to the lack of seeing the fallout of Bane's initial takeover of Gotham.

Honestly I think so. I think the ideas latent in TDKR would have been better fleshed out and executed had it been a two-part deal, like TDKR part 1 and TDKR part 2, each with a full runtime. This was too much story for one movie.

 

[shauner111]

Heh, the "shackles" speech was actually my favorite moment of his in the film. Powerful stuff.

Mine too. Oldman's best moment in the final movie.

 

[JackWhite]

Honestly I think so. I think the ideas latent in TDKR would have been better fleshed out and executed had it been a two-part deal, like TDKR part 1 and TDKR part 2, each with a full runtime. This was too much story for one movie.

I remember one reviewer said the second half of TDKR doesn't fulfill the promise of the first half. And I kind of agree with that.

 

[AnneFan]

I remember one reviewer said the second half of TDKR doesn't fulfill the promise of the first half. And I kind of agree with that.

The first half is definitely the better section in my opinion.

 

[JackWhite]

The first half is definitely the better section in my opinion.

I agree. I love the third act, but it feels somewhat rushed to get to the climax of the film. That could be attributed to Bruce just getting back to Gotham without any cues as to how.

But still, the scenes with Bruce in the pit during the second act were wonderful.

 

[redfirebird2008]

I've actually really thought about this for awhile, and I wonder if Nolan tried to "cheat" or save time and used the montage at Blackgate during Bane's speech to reflect the social upheaval so he could move the story forward. Obviously I feel this wasn't the best approach, but it's the only answer I could come up with in regards to the lack of seeing the fallout of Bane's initial takeover of Gotham.

If he was cheating, I think it was a good cheat. That montage is awesome IMHO.

 

[shauner111]

That montage is a classic.

 

[JackWhite]

If he was cheating, I think it was a good cheat. That montage is awesome IMHO.

I also love the montage. But that's all we get when it comes to Gotham's plight. I expected Nolan to go further and not just montage it and leave it at that.

 

[The Joker]

But that's all we get when it comes to Gotham's plight. I expected Nolan to go further and not just montage it and leave it at that.

Exactly. It barely scratched the surface.