The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 146

[Snow Queen]

EW's Top 100 Movies of All Time

2001 below Jaws? Just...no.

The Shining below Return of the King?

The Empire Strikes Back below Titanic?

Etc....

Can't say I agree with this list...

 

[The Joker]

EW's Top 100 Movies of All Time

And TDK is the only comic book movie that made the list

 

[Anita18]

2001 below Jaws? Just...no.

The Shining below Return of the King?

The Empire Strikes Back below Titanic?

Etc....

Can't say I agree with this list...

It's a good list in general. Maybe if it was top 100 with no specific order, then it would be better.

 

[Snow Queen]

It's a good list in general. Maybe if it was top 100 with no specific order, then it would be better.

Agreed. Without an order, it's much better.

Though I do feel Fight Club, Se7en and Inception should be on there as well.

 

[regwec]

Personally, I find The Avengers and The Dark Knight to be the two examples of great comic films.

I don't think the Avengers is dumb by any means. But it is certainly simpler. It's an action blockbuster with some great humor and great action, and an engaging story.

The Dark Knight was extremely serious, dark, and had a complex story and complex characters. And it was just as great to watch in theaters for me.

I really don't get why people feel the need to rip on TA because I've never seen the film claim to be anything other than what it was: a fun blockbuster with great action. If it were trying to bill itself as another Dark Knight, then I would understand, but it didn't.

To me, comparing the two films is like comparing Saving Private Ryan and Raiders of the Lost Arc. Yes, they both are set in WWII, they both involve heroes fighting Nazi's, and they both have action. But they're completely different films. Yes, SPR has a much more complex storyline and complex characters that ROTA, but that doesn't make Raiders any less enjoyable. We don't rip on Raiders for not being a super serious action flick with an in-depth plot and complex characters, so why are people ripping on The Avengers for the same thing when it was never trying to be that kind of film?

I am not attacking the Avengers from anything other than my own, subjective view.

For me, that movie, and most of its brethren, do absolutely nothing. I hate the sheer, shrink-rapped commercial smell of them. Every frame groans underneath the yoke of franchise-planning and market research. I don't feel they have a single spark of invention or intelligence.

As I'm sure most of you know, I have plenty of nit-picky problems with Nolan's Batmovies. But at least I get the sensation, from them, of being spoken to by a reasonably intelligent human being, rather than being marketed to by a computer.

Anyway, this is just my view, and an unusual one. So don't hate me for being outspoken.

 

[Snow Queen]

I am not attacking the Avengers from anything other than my own, subjective view.

For me, that movie, and most of its brethren, do absolutely nothing. I hate the sheer, shrink-rapped commercial smell of them. Every frame groans underneath the yoke of franchise-planning and market research. I don't feel they have a single spark of invention or intelligence.

As I'm sure most of you know, I have plenty of nit-picky problems with Nolan's Batmovies. But at least I get the sensation, from them, of being spoken to by a reasonably intelligent human being, rather than being marketed to by a computer.

Anyway, this is just my view, and an unusual one. So don't hate me for being outspoken.

I agree with you. The only Marvel Studios movies I enjoy are Iron Man and Iron Man 3 (though I definitely get why people don't like the latter). I don't mind TIH though. The others, meh. Good in parts (I liked the first half of Captain America and the brother stuff in Thor) but the rest...eh. And majority of them just feel, as you put it, shrink-wrapped.

 

[milost]

I don't know. I got a real sense of love baked into Avengers, atleast on Whendon's end. The character interactions alone feel genuine.

Is some of it a bit commercialized and planned? Sure that's evident in all comic book films though. What do you think the purpose of "I gotta get me one of those" and "that's a nice ride" in Begins? Certainly not character development, it's to "sell" and market the Batmobile as a product.

 

[Marvolo]

Well, I've given TDKR a lot of hell here and on other forums, but I must have watched that damn film 6 times in the past week on HBO. Every time its on I flip over to it and end up watching the whole thing, and i find myself enjoying it again. Idk what it is, but some films turn out this way for me. In the theater I love em. The love wanes while they are on dvd, but then they show up on tv and I can't stop watching em. I didn't even watch TDK this much when it was on tv.

 

[Anita18]

I am not attacking the Avengers from anything other than my own, subjective view.

For me, that movie, and most of its brethren, do absolutely nothing. I hate the sheer, shrink-rapped commercial smell of them. Every frame groans underneath the yoke of franchise-planning and market research. I don't feel they have a single spark of invention or intelligence.

As I'm sure most of you know, I have plenty of nit-picky problems with Nolan's Batmovies. But at least I get the sensation, from them, of being spoken to by a reasonably intelligent human being, rather than being marketed to by a computer.

Anyway, this is just my view, and an unusual one. So don't hate me for being outspoken.

Avengers isn't THAT bad. It was unabashed fun and didn't purport to be anything more. The best thing about it was that it was obvious it was made by people who loved and respected the characters. Except that Hawkeye kind of got the short end of the stick.

And Joss Whedon is obviously intelligent, to have made Avengers work at all. Juggling 5 protagonists is NOT an easy task!

I'd say the Nolan Batmovies are clearly made by an artist who has something to say. Whedon is more akin to a commercial illustrator - mad skills, looks nice, has style, marketable, but not a lot under the surface.

There's room for both fine artists and commercial illustrators in this world. We can appreciate having them both too.

 

[Marvolo]

Joss was born to make comic book films and stuff of that nature. He isn't going for deep psychological explorations of damaged men. Yeah, he'll say some things, but a good time at the movies is what he is out to make. I personally love his dialogue and scripts. His directing isn't the classiest, but I enjoy the man's work.

 

[The Joker]

The Avengers was brilliant. One of the top comic book movies of all time, IMO. I'd certainly rank it above TDKR.

 

[BatLobster]

Well, I've given TDKR a lot of hell here and on other forums, but I must have watched that damn film 6 times in the past week on HBO. Every time its on I flip over to it and end up watching the whole thing, and i find myself enjoying it again. Idk what it is, but some films turn out this way for me. In the theater I love em. The love wanes while they are on dvd, but then they show up on tv and I can't stop watching em. I didn't even watch TDK this much when it was on tv.

That's cool to hear.

 

[kvz5]

Well, I've given TDKR a lot of hell here and on other forums, but I must have watched that damn film 6 times in the past week on HBO. Every time its on I flip over to it and end up watching the whole thing, and i find myself enjoying it again. Idk what it is, but some films turn out this way for me. In the theater I love em. The love wanes while they are on dvd, but then they show up on tv and I can't stop watching em. I didn't even watch TDK this much when it was on tv.

I've been watching it too every time I catch it on HBO (which is a lot since it's on heavy rotation). I still tend to switch channels though when the parts I don't like are on and then I'll come back to it when the parts I like are on.

 

[regwec]

Like The Godfather III, it is one of those movies I don't hate, but just seems to pale before its predecessors. I have seen it twice, once at the cinema and once on DVD. That feels sufficient.

 

[BatLobster]

I find that just like it's predecessors, there's so much detail there to appreciate that the movie gets better and better with multiple viewings. I found myself still fully engaged when I saw it in again in theaters this week.

 

[regwec]

How many times have you seen it?

 

[BatLobster]

I've kinda lost count honestly, but then again I always do when it comes to movies I love. 5 times total in theaters (3 of those IMAX), and I'd have to guess at least another 5 times through on Blu-ray/HBO, not counting partial viewings. I've been able to keep the viewings relatively spaced out so I haven't completely gotten burnt out on the movie. Though after seeing it in theaters this week, I should be good for a few months. Ideally I'd like to build up the desire to do a full trilogy marathon with some friends.

 

[regwec]

So, ten viewings at a minimum? May I ask what details you discovered on the tenth viewing that you had failed to notice in the previous nine?

 

[BatmanFanboy]

For me, that movie, and most of its brethren, do absolutely nothing. I hate the sheer, shrink-rapped commercial smell of them. Every frame groans underneath the yoke of franchise-planning and market research. I don't feel they have a single spark of invention or intelligence.

As I'm sure most of you know, I have plenty of nit-picky problems with Nolan's Batmovies. But at least I get the sensation, from them, of being spoken to by a reasonably intelligent human being, rather than being marketed to by a computer.

Anyway, this is just my view, and an unusual one. So don't hate me for being outspoken.

What a dumbass. They are faithful to the comics and for the people who love those characters. It's not like they made those characters something they aren't just to appeal to a wider audience. They got the essence of the characters down perfectly and that's why people like them, if you don't like it then don't bother watching Marvel movies if you want everything to be like THE DARK KNIGHT. I certainly don't.

 

[Snow Queen]

What a dumbass. They are faithful to the comics and for the people who love those characters. It's not like they made those characters something they aren't just to appeal to a wider audience. They got the essence of the characters down perfectly and that's why people like them, if you don't like it then don't bother watching Marvel movies if you want everything to be like THE DARK KNIGHT. I certainly don't.

Not everything has to be The Dark Knight but some substance behind explosions is always nice. Avengers felt like it came off an assembly line and like it was Transformers with superheroes, at least to me.

Iron Man's still great because there's character development, a great plot, fantastic performances and the character arc of Tony Stark is one of my favourites in any CBM. Avengers, I felt none of the passion and care from Iron Man. It felt heartless.

 

[Monicabbm]

Not everything has to be The Dark Knight but some substance behind explosions is always nice. Avengers felt like it came off an assembly line and like it was Transformers with superheroes, at least to me.

Iron Man's still great because there's character development, a great plot, fantastic performances and the character arc of Tony Stark is one of my favourites in any CBM. Avengers, I felt none of the passion and care from Iron Man. It felt heartless.

was tedious and annoying. And Robert Downey Tony Stark Jr. is annoying too.

 

[Snow Queen]

was tedious and annoying. And Robert Downey Tony Stark Jr. is annoying too.

Are you talking about IM or Avengers?

 

[shauner111]

I find Avengers to be nothing more than a popcorn movie. Ive seen it once and maybe watched a bit of it online a couple of months after its release, turned it off because it was nothing but one-liners with Downey trying to be funny in every scene. I like RDJ but he gets irritating as Tony after like 10 minutes. Only at the end of that movie he starts showing something in his character that isn't just 1 note fun time Stark.

I dunno, I personally don't want every CBM to be like Nolan's movies. I want the reboot of Batman to be extremely different. Spider-Man desperately needs the humor in order to be "Spider-Man" otherwise I wont watch a spidey flick if it's trying to be all serious. But I still don't like what Marvel produces as a studio. Avengers does nothing for me. It's all flash and fun times and wink winks and fights. I just don't like those types of movies. I see films for characters and investment. If it's balanced out with fun as hell action with some humor too? Then awesome. But it has to feel like a balance or else I cant be bothered.

Saying Avengers was brilliant makes no sense to me. Maybe for what they were trying to achieve, then OK. But it's very one note all the way through. Coulsons death means nothing now and it didn't mean anything then (for me) because I always hated that guy. A dude dies and THAT'S the reason for 6 heroes to come together in the end?? A guy nobody knew much or cared about, just insulted or ignored him with rolling eyes......and people say TDKR had weak plot devices? I guess Bane should be brought back. We'll say Selina never blew him away with a missile to the chest!

 

[Snow Queen]

I think that TASM struck a good middle ground between serious and light hearted. I know a lot of what they did character wise with Peter was kind of divisive on here but I think majority can agree that the tone was quite good.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I am not attacking the Avengers from anything other than my own, subjective view.

For me, that movie, and most of its brethren, do absolutely nothing. I hate the sheer, shrink-rapped commercial smell of them. Every frame groans underneath the yoke of franchise-planning and market research. I don't feel they have a single spark of invention or intelligence.

As I'm sure most of you know, I have plenty of nit-picky problems with Nolan's Batmovies. But at least I get the sensation, from them, of being spoken to by a reasonably intelligent human being, rather than being marketed to by a computer.

Anyway, this is just my view, and an unusual one. So don't hate me for being outspoken.

Don't worry Reg, I could never hate you. I've always enjoyed your posts because you actually like to debate instead of fling insults. And one thing that always impressed me was that you were always willing to admit when you changed an opinion instead of holding into it simply because you wanted to. Like with Heath's Joker.

I get why some may feel the way you do about Avengers, but I usually try to defend it because on the forums lately is seems to have be become a trend to bring up TA or TDK when discussing a new superhero film and tear them down in order to build the new one up.

I always thought TA was just a plain old fun movie. It's simple, funny, and has well crafted action. And I see some people criticizing it for that very reason, which confuses me, because those are th same reasons so many loved films like ROTA. Not saying you felt this way, but it is something I see a lot.

I do think in general the MU films play it little too safe. They don't take risks, (besides IM1 and TA) and while none of the films have been bad, they're all starting to feel very formulaic. Nolan's films don't feel like that. Even TDKR, which I think has some of his more glaring story issues, still pushes the envelope in terms of what we see in a comic film. I hope Marvel starts taking more risks like that. Maybe the failure of Ang's Hulk still has them scared. But even then, I applaud Lee for failing while trying to push the envelope rather than failing while trying to remain cookie cutter.