Please khaleesi! Can I see evidence?
You mean to tell me, that becuase Webb features a child playing at the beginning of the film, it's a Nolan rip off? In the TASM commentary Webb stated the inspiration came from another director to "start your film with a metaphor. TASM2's first shot is a ticking watch becuase the main theme is time. I also disagree with saying the tone is similar because they are not. It's not like the origin was told with lots of flashbacks, had little light moments and had the hero travel the world as a Emo (think Man Of Steel). TASM2 is the same, they've just given the costume better coloring and more daytime swinging, they've even kept the realism e.g Rhino looking tank like and this, more realistic swinging,
I using one example that showed blatant laziness on the part of the writers and/or director. But the film is very much marred by the need to be dark. Consider the necessity of showing Spider-Man only fighting crime at night, adding "ominous" dark cues meant to cause the audience to question Peter's morality, such as when he covers that one goon's mouth in web-fluid and then checks for the star tattoo on his wrist. He sees it is not there, so he lets the guy breathe, "saying this could have gone a lot worse." The scene is meant to evoke at least the thought that Spidey would have let him die if this was Uncle Ben's killer. And keep in mind that this is only one of the first time we've really seen him in full costume for more than a second. The way the jokes stop, he tilts his head in a shot that indicates his eyes are predatory and the music comes in with a menacing hiss--it is to make him look dark, dangerous, angry.
The movie also feels the need to "explain" everything like Nolan did. Where did he get his web fluid? Where did he get his web-shooters? Where did he get the idea for a skin-tight colorful outfit (he listens to other geeks talk about wind velocity and then studies speed skating). Also the emphasis on the cops, particularly Stacy, it is all influenced by Nolan, except Spidey is not Batman and that kind of interpretation of a strictly nighttime avenger does not gel well with the jokes, the giant Lizard, the fact that Peter Parker is meant to be an everyday high schooler struggling with romance. It makes for a muddled movie.
And if you really don't think Sony had The Dark Knight in their head, go back and watch the trailers for TASM. Many have the word "BEGINS." That was not accidental.
And you know what the biggest validation is that this approach
failed in the eyes of not only many viewers, but also Sony and Webb? The fact that they have completely ditched it for TASM2. He is now, as you say, seen swinging in the daytime, fighting colorful villains who are not hidden in the marketing and is basically wearing the Raimi suit or a variation on it. That need to "ground" it is really gone in TASM2, because that just ain't Spidey.
Eh, I'd like this explained a bit. There was lots of light moments and Spider-Man overcame Uncle Ben's death. It's not like he was still crying at the end over Uncle Ben.
I was speaking there of the fact that Spidey is not a character who needs to be defined by gritty hardship. While Uncle Ben dies, Gwen Stacy dies, Harry Osborn dies, etc., he is still presented in his best eras as a guy who is never weighed down by his loss. In the 1960s through the early 1990s, he is depicted as a regular guy who goes through some tragedies, but embraces lightness and happiness and his stories never really are all that bleak. They are not nourish, they do not take entirely at night, and he is not depicted as a dark avenger striking out at criminality. He is a guy who is trying to keep a steady job, find love or balance his marriage (depending on where it is happen), and keep his responsibilities to his family and friends while also having to save the world once in a while. Despite not getting the details right of Peter or Mary Jane's personalities (IMO) right, Raimi captured that take on the character. Webb's does remind of later comics, but not Ultimate which also got what I'm talking about. TASM reminds me of those dreary post-The Dark Knight Returns Spidey comics in the mid-90s when everything was getting dark. Spidey was fighting Carnage the serial killer, Lizard the serial killer controlled by a voodoo priestess, and just generally miserable despite being ridiculously married to a supermodel (never agreed with the comic writers of turing her into that). That kind of downbeat stoic hero shtick never plays well on Peter Parker and rang false in TASM too.
School fight was awesome, short but with Spidey being witty and being "Spider like" with his movements and the webbing up of Lizard. I'd say the scene where he saves Jack was comparable to the birth scene. I'd agree that SM2's action was better than
any Spider-Man but TASM got the Spider-Man poses and movements better,
just.
Yes the poses and "realism" of the CGI is better because it has had 7-12 years on the Raimi films to improve. Albeit, some of that Electro stuff at the power plant looks more cartoony than anything in the Raimi sequels at least. With that said, Raimi's camera movements and style gave all the fight scenes in SM2 and SM3 a verticality and even a sense of vertigo as he woodshed around and wielded his lens like a madman, similar to how he'd shoot scenes in Evil Dead 2 and Army of Darkness. Webb's style in TASM at least was very workmanlike. I personally think Lizard is a much better villain than Sandman or Venom, but you did not get that in terms of character or visuals in TASM, because he looked bad, he was poorly developed as a character, and in the fight scenes he never did anything that impressive.
But yes, in the sequel, they are definitely going for more of the Raimi look with the swinging, I can see that.
It just got repetitive, while it is true that his supporting cast is important he's just as equally defined by his villains. Nothing personal but this post felt a little like tip toeing around the fact that Webb just did this better IMO. Webb even wants to make the whole Oscorp thing get less repetitive by having villains that don't originate from Oscorp like Rhino.
I really don't think that. I think it will be pretty damn repetitive by TASM3 if all the villains are because of Norman Osborn. The only villains who felt redundant in origins were Sandman and Venom, because SM3 wasn't very good and rushed through everything (though both had amazing "birth" scenes). Honestly, Electro doesn't seems about on par with Sandman falling into that test in TASM2 trailers where he goes the full Burton/Schumaucher where he falls into a vat of electric eels (really?) and now he's EVILZ!
But I'm okay with that, because honestly villains are not the selling point of Spidey mythos. He has AMAZING villains. I'd say easily the best rogues gallery outside of Batman. But unlike Batman, his defining characteristic is not what he does inside the mask but outside of it as Peter Parker. as such, even the Raimi films got away with what the comics have for 50 years: redundant "science gone wrong origins" matter not, because the point is how they effect Peter's life. They are the equivalent of him having a really terrible deadline at work. There are exceptions of course, namely Green Goblin (either one), Doc Ock, Kraven in KLH, and a few others who really get to his soul. But by and large, they don't need to be explained so I, like many, am entirely indifferent as to whether they are all random accidents or all orchestrated by Norman Osborn.
And one of the best villains, Lizard, was fudged up by Webb already. As he was supposed to be Peter's friend, one that he is desperate to save from himself and also for Curt's family. Electro is run-of-the-mill compared to that. So is Rhino.
He was about the same as GG in SM1 IMO. The changes made to him while not what I might have done, they
did suit the universe they were in. Making him look more humanoid fitted with the human-hybrid stuff at Oscorp (which is why Spider-Man isn't a giant Spider and the upcoming Electro isn't a giant eel). As for not having his family that did make him less sympathetic but there was a connection there
to Peter's family and it was made clear that he was just a good man. His look was quite similar to how he originally looked (so at least he looked like
a version of the character) and his plan was to enhance humanity by making more hybrids. A little cheesy but hey it's a comic book film and it's better than a guy in a power ranger suit wanting to "rule the city" with another guy in spandex. What social policys would Goblin have put in or NYC? Now
that's a What If I want to see
.
As for TASM2, could turn out an even worse mess but it's
not the characters in it that matters, it's how they're handled!We've seen CBM's like have lots of character but were good like X-Men 2 or The Avengers.
Except I cared about Norman Osborn, even in that stupid looking suit. I also was repulsed by him at the end. I felt nothing for Connors, when he is in theory supposed to be a much more likable person. He felt rote. Taking away his family or a genuine connection of friendship with Peter (they met once before he became the Lizard) takes away his humanity, as does showing him turning back and forth into a human and choosing to do it, which makes him look like a Norman Osborn knock-off.
As for the appearance, even keeping the coat on at all times would have been better. You saw the .5 seconds he wore it with the SWAT team and also in the deleted scene. It turns out Ditko knew more about visual appeal than a team of CGI animators and filmmakers did 50 years later, because without the contrasting white "cape," he looked like a boring green monster.
Yes, we will see if things improve this year.
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