The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - Part 152

[BatLobster]

There's a small line that's easy to overlook but one that I go back to because I think it speaks volumes about Bruce's arc not only in the film in which it appears but the entire trilogy. It's Bruce's first line in Rises:

"Is that what they say about me?"

It's the essential idea of a man turning himself into a legend. Only here it is the unintended consequence of Bruce's action, or nonaction, that has made him a myth to others. Blake talks directly about this later on and with the whole plot thread about the fusion reactor the film examines the true power Bruce has on his own and how it impact the city at large. But the entire trilogy is about legends, really. As a legend Batman is never really diminished and Bruce's legacy never quite does either.

Dude, very good call and good scene.

I love how the music cue in that scene is the same cue as when we first see Bruce in the Bhutanese prison at the start of Begins.

 

[georgec]

I've always liked this one from Talia (as Miranda):

"You have a practiced apathy, Mr. Wayne. But a man who doesn't care about the world doesn't spend half his fortune on a plan to save it. And isn't so wounded when it fails that he goes into hiding."

At that moment the audience thinks she's talking about Bruce Wayne and the energy project, but she's actually talking about Batman.

 

[The Shape]

Falafel guy - "Flass, I have kids to feed."

Flass - "What, They don't like falafel?"

Iconic.

 

[shauner111]

Dude, very good call and good scene.

I love how the music cue in that scene is the same cue as when we first see Bruce in the Bhutanese prison at the start of Begins.

Ahhhh sooo good. What a great introduction to Bruce in Rises. Bale really nailed that with his look, his walk, voice. Perfect first meeting between Selina and Bruce. Funny cuz Selina is hiding who she really is but Bruce is showing her who he is and what he's been like for all those years. He's not really putting on a mask in front of her here. But she doesn't catch on and put two and two together. Not for days. But she still finds a way to say "F it, ill just show you who i really am right now" and that switch goes off. Hathaway nails that too. She starts it off like a typical Anne Hathaway voice/role that everyone expected from her then she drops into Selina Kyle right in front of Bruce (her voice dropping as well). It works for that scene and story but it's also like a f**k you to the audience who doubted her cuz all they saw in their head was the timid Anne going into it.

 

[BatLobster]

I also think introducing her as a "lowly" maid was a great way to pull the rug out from under the audience's feet for anyone who was expecting another Catwoman origin story. Just overall great execution of that whole reveal.

 

[shauner111]

Yeah because some were expecting the origin story, most expected her to not be badass enough or believable in the role.

 

[Victarion]

...or does anyone else find comments like this absolutely stupid? No offense to the user who made it. Batman spent years getting trained by ninjas in the Himalayas in stealth, fighting, and theatricality, and it was a jump the shark moment that he didn't get shot on his first night?

Oy vey! I am half hoping he was kidding.

I'd like to see Nolan tackle William Gibson's Neuromancer at some point.

Some of my favorite lines from the trilogy:

"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul

"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul

"I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you."--Batman

"You die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." --Harvey Dent

"Those mob fools want you gone so they can get back to the way things were. But I know the truth: there's no going back. You've changed things... forever. "-- The Joker

"It's not about what I want, its about what's fair!" --Two-Face

" Tell your boy it's going to be all right, Gordon. Lie, like I lied." --Two-Face

"You don't owe these people anymore. You've given them everything." --Catwoman

"I'm Gotham's reckoning. Here to end the borrowed time you've all been living on." --Bane

"Gotham! Take control! Take control of your city...we come not as conquerors but as liberators to return control of this city to the people...hold your families close and wait. Tomorrow you claim what is rightfully yours." --Bane

"You tell me where the trigger is. Then you have my permission to die." --Batman

"A hero can be anyone. Even someone doing something as simple as putting a coat around a young boy's shoulders to tell him the world hasn't ended." --Batman

A few that I really enjoyed, though there's a few more I didn't list.

 

[JackWhite]

Ra's - "Your anger gives you great power. But if you let it, it will destroy you."

I totally love how that line comes back to haunt Bruce, because it is his anger that almost has him killed when he first fights Bane. Before TDKR, Bruce was channeling all that angst and hatred in a positive way. Using it to fight through his own demons and fight for the city he loves. But in TDKR, even though Bruce feels it's a civic duty to protect Gotham, he almost selfishly uses that very same anger to try and relive his past glory days and have purpose again.

 

[JackWhite]

Batman - "This blocks the remote detonator signal to the bomb. Get it onto it before sunrise. They might hit the button when it starts."

Gordon - "When what starts?"

Batman - "...War."

I still get chills when that scene comes on.

 

[Victarion]

Ra's - "Your anger gives you great power. But if you let it, it will destroy you."

I totally love how that line comes back to haunt Bruce, because it is his anger that almost has him killed when he first fights Bane. Before TDKR, Bruce was channeling all that angst and hatred in a positive way. Using it to fight through his own demons and fight for the city he loves. But in TDKR, even though Bruce feels it's a civic duty to protect Gotham, he almost selfishly uses that very same anger to try and relive his past glory days and have purpose again.

Maybe even as early as TDK. Bruce wasting time getting angry at Joker in the interrogation room while the timer was ticking.

 

[JackWhite]

Eh, Bruce was still getting his feel on how this new breed of criminal worked when he was unloading fists at the Joker. After he failed to save Rachel and prevent Dent from getting blown half to hell; he learned his lesson and was much better off for it.

 

[Ryan]

I always liked that one line by Ras' at the campfire in Begins. Something about keeping your chest warm, your arms will take care of themselves.....ha.....until I learned later in the dark knight trilogy extended disc that itwas not an actual fact.

 

[Victarion]

Eh, Bruce was still getting his feel on how this new breed of criminal worked when he was unloading fists at the Joker. After he failed to save Rachel and prevent Dent from getting blown half to hell; he learned his lesson and was much better off for it.

Fair. What about the scene where he drops Maroni from the fire escape?

 

[JackWhite]

I always liked that one line by Ras' at the campfire in Begins. Something about keeping your chest warm, your arms will take care of themselves.....ha.....until I learned later in the dark knight trilogy extended disc that itwas not an actual fact.

Neeson can sell anything!

Fair. What about the scene where he drops Maroni from the fire escape?

That's Batman's bully tactics only getting him so far. Maroni doesn't give him much, but he does tell him that the Joker was the one who seeked out the mob. It's not until he tries his bully tactics on the Joker himself when Bruce really understands that he has to truly step his game up if he wants to combat this new breed of criminal, which ultimately meant blurring the lines between right and wrong with his actions. Hence he finally decided to use the Sonar equipment to find the Joker.

 

[Panthro]

Eh, Bruce was still getting his feel on how this new breed of criminal worked when he was unloading fists at the Joker. After he failed to save Rachel and prevent Dent from getting blown half to hell; he learned his lesson and was much better off for it.

Very true - though he seems to have forgotten that lesson when he goes up against Bane, but I attribute that to Bruce still going through his Death Seeker phase.

 

[Brother Jack]

It was Bruce implicitly having a death wish that he wouldn't acknowledge and arrogance that Bane would be no match for him. You can see that arrogance in some of the lines he has and the way he calmly sidesteps the police. Though to be fair the police weren't really prepared to handle him; there was a mix of awe and fear on them when he appears.

 

[Team Andino]

It was Bruce implicitly having a death wish that he wouldn't acknowledge and arrogance that Bane would be no match for him. You can see that arrogance in some of the lines he has and the way he calmly sidesteps the police. Though to be fair the police weren't really prepared to handle him; there was a mix of awe and fear on them when he appears.

Yeah I always loved his line "I'll fight harder, I always have", he says it almost like an automated response to Alfred. Doesn't even really understand that it's not enough.

 

[Panthro]

It was Bruce implicitly having a death wish that he wouldn't acknowledge and arrogance that Bane would be no match for him. You can see that arrogance in some of the lines he has and the way he calmly sidesteps the police. Though to be fair the police weren't really prepared to handle him; there was a mix of awe and fear on them when he appears.

Yeah I always loved his line "I'll fight harder, I always have", he says it almost like an automated response to Alfred. Doesn't even really understand that it's not enough.

Very true, I just find it funny that there's always a scene of Bruce underestimating the bad guys in the Nolan films - in BB he first underestimates Falcone (gets smacked around and thrown out of a bar) and later Ra's (which almost gets the city blown up), in TDK he underestimates the Joker (which of course leads to the death of the woman he was unhealthily obsessed with among other things), and in TDKR he underestimates Bane (and gets his ass handed to him for it). I wonder if Bruce will be allowed to underestimate anyone in this new DC-Cinematic Universe they're trying to cobble together or if they'll go all Bat-God with him...

 

[shauner111]

I can see the new Bats underestimating Superman at points in their first fight. He definitely won't walk away the winner. But i can see the Bat-God throughout the entire series.

 

[The Joker]

I don't think he underestimated Falcone, he just wanted to go and show him that not everyone in Gotham is afraid of him. I don't think he was so naive that he didn't think Falcone would have some muscle there who could rough him up and throw him out of the bar. He's lucky he got out of there alive.

I could understand him underestimating the Joker since pretty much everyone did, even the mob ("Two bit whack job who wears a cheap purple suit and make up. He's not the problem, he's a nobody"). They'd never had a criminal like Joker before in Gotham.

With Bane it was kind of foolish to underestimate him because Bane had a rep (trained by the same people Bruce got trained by, too, and supposedly got excommunicated for being too extreme for even someone like Ra's), they had footage of his brutal fighting prowess, and Bruce was just writing him off as a mercenary. Well they say pride comes before a fall.

 

[The Shape]

With Bane it was kind of foolish to underestimate him because Bane had a rep (trained by the same people Bruce got trained by, too, and supposedly got excommunicated for being too extreme for even someone like Ra's), they had footage of his brutal fighting prowess, and Bruce was just writing him off as a mercenary. Well they say pride comes before a fall.

Exactly, and that was sort of the point. His pride and eagerness to jump back into the fight are what led to his initial downfall.

 

[JackWhite]

And he doesn't want to come to terms with the fact that he is not the same guy he was nearly a decade ago.

Alfred - "That was then. And you think you can strap up your leg and put your mask back on, but it won't make you what you were."

Bruce - "Which was?"

Alfred - "Someone who's anger at death made him value all life. Even his own."

I know the bolded dialogue was cut out, but damn do I love that line from Alfred. Bruce was beyond frozen in time.

 

[Brother Jack]

I can see the new Bats underestimating Superman at points in their first fight. He definitely won't walk away the winner. But i can see the Bat-God throughout the entire series.

I'm not a big fan of Bat-God. It can be interesting if Batman has a minor role in a story but too often it robs the character of his human fallibility. The fact that as a non-superpowered man he can't do it all, can't save everyone all the time. It's one of the many things that makes the character fascinating.

 

[shauner111]

Im not much of a fan either but i guess i can put up with it since we haven't seen it in the movies. If there's going to be Bat-God, i think the right time to do it is when he's involved with aliens. This is the time. I hope they tone that down a little bit once we get to the solo film, but please stay away from that after this series. The problem is i think this version of Batman will be so well-received when it comes to the visuals, that it may influence Warner Bros to think this way even past Snyder/Affleck. That's a mistake.

I can put up with Bat-God when he's fighting Superman or Darkseid. Or standing next to these kings, warriors, gods, extra-terrestrials...but not beyond that.

 

[The Batman]

Bring on the Batgod. Whether its getting taken to the limit by Ray Charles in B89, or getting his ass handed to him by Bane in TDKR, we have seen plenty examples of Batman's limits in the past 7 movies. Its time to see the Batman who's ten steps ahead on the big screen.