The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - Part 153

[hafizbat]

Using a sports analogy, Affleck following Bale could be like Steve Young following Joe Montana.

 

[JackWhite]

I know Bale is notorious for being anti-media, but I wonder if he would have made more public appearances if Heath had lived? Could you imagine Bale and Ledger on something like Charlie Rose talking about playing Batman and Joker in TDK?

Shame we will never know.

 

[Malicked]

I don't know if purists were opposed to that necessarily, the cuts and bruises were a direct homage to a famous Alex Ross painting:

I do come across a lot of people who say that Bale's Wayne was a '*****' because he wasn't able to overwhelm all of his victims like in the comics. But yeah, that painting is fantastic. Come to think of it, most of the complaints about Bruce Wayne being portrayed as weak came from the start of Rises when it's revealed Batman hasn't been seen in 8 whole years. Though they conveniently forget that Bruce became depressed because of the failed clean energy project and not because of Rachel's death. He was still very much active as 'Bruce Wayne, eccentric billionaire' for a good 5 years.

Bruce or Batman? I thought Bale played him like an everyman and Keaton didn't. I find Mackie to be a kiss-ass to be honest. Constantly putting down DC and what they've done recently just to make the studio and fans happy over at Marvel.

Keaton looked like an everyman as Bruce, but he didn't act that way. I dont think the "everyman" is a super awkward, stumbling on his words, loner who never eats in their kitchen/dining room! Just saying!

Well the character of Bruce Wayne has always been somwhat aloof and somewhat elitist (since well, he is a famous freaking billionaire after all). But yeah, Keaton's Bruce Wayne was the one you'd never in a million years except to be Batman. But even then he can't except the fact that his Wayne kept himself to himself, even moreso than Bale's. I do find the latter to be more relatable purely because we see more of his life, his insecurities and his turmoil. I've never personally demanded an 'everyman' Batman. If I did want that, Bruce Wayne wouldn't be a billionaire living in a tower and he'd instead be living next door to me wearing a cheap black cotton cape t:

I will agree with him that Keaton was the coolest Batman, and I can see where he's coming from with the "Everyman" bit...but Bale's Bruce Wayne was pretty cool, and so was his Batman.

Keaton was the Batman I grew up with as a kid and to this day I still love his Batman. In some ways, all the subsequent Batmen owe a debt to Keaton's Batman, especially those who've worn the black rubber suit. But I don't know if I ever liked him because he was an 'everyman'. I liked him because he was the gothic, slightly reclusive Batman who was of the shadows. And yeah, it was damn cool. But I still prefer Bale! I know Tarantino wasn't a fan of Bale's Batman either (though he wasn't appreciative of Affleck's casting either since he's never liked the character of Batman except for when Keaton played him).

 

[JackWhite]

I believe this is relevant to the topic at hand:

[YT]5fDscaZkyTk[/YT]

 

[Malicked]

I think what makes Bale seem divisive is the "quietness" he seems to get in comparison with other actors playing other superheroes. No Batman actor seems to be on pop culture's collective mind as frequently as someone like Reeve, or Downey, or Jackman, or even Evans/Hemsworth.

I think it's more to do with that 'voice' that kills it for people. In fact the vast majority hated it even though most would insist they liked Bale's take on Bruce Wayne. I think with those actors you mentioned, it's the narrative that they're the first to play those roles that makes them seem irreplaceable. With Downey Jr in particular, his career was a shambles after his drug problems. He's given Iron Man and it's a success. Part of why people adored him wasn't because he transformed himself. It's because he WAS Tony Stark, his personality is near enough to what you see in the film as you see in his interviews and people loved his charm. There's another prositive narrative that Keaton received hatred when he was initially cast as Batman but then the films were a success (like with Ledger). And if Affleck does well, he'll be viewed in the same light as those actors. Bale never had that narrative because I think he was already considered a respected choice for Batman. There was no noise when he was cast.

I know Bale is notorious for being anti-media, but I wonder if he would have made more public appearances if Heath had lived? Could you imagine Bale and Ledger on something like Charlie Rose talking about playing Batman and Joker in TDK?

Shame we will never know.

I think Bale invited Ledger to one of his other film premieres, something he had never done before with any of his other co-stars (they both worked on I'm Not There). I think Ledger was one of the few 'celebrity' friends Bale had.

 

[JackWhite]

I didn't know Bale invited him to a film premier. That's pretty cool. I always did get the feeling they were fairly tight.

 

[Malicked]

I believe this is relevant to the topic at hand:

[YT]5fDscaZkyTk[/YT]

Awesome, but they didn't invite Val Kilmer or George Clooney. Were they barred?

 

[JackWhite]

No, they were just flat out banned!

 

[JackWhite]

Another good Bale-Bats centric tribute:

[YT]9-IuC2AMgJ4[/YT]

Only thing it's missing is a shot of him making the climb in TDKR. That is still my favorite Bruce Wayne scene in the trilogy. Epic, moving, inspiring!

 

[Snow Queen]

I do come across a lot of people who say that Bale's Wayne was a '*****' because he wasn't able to overwhelm all of his victims like in the comics. But yeah, that painting is fantastic. Come to think of it, most of the complaints about Bruce Wayne being portrayed as weak came from the start of Rises when it's revealed Batman hasn't been seen in 8 whole years. Though they conveniently forget that Bruce became depressed because of the failed clean energy project and not because of Rachel's death. He was still very much active as 'Bruce Wayne, eccentric billionaire' for a good 5 years.

His childhood friend is killed, the person he wanted to succeed him in some capacity was turned bad, his body wasn't in the best shape, a bill created by his own lie rendered him no longer as effective at what he set out to do and he tried to make a clean energy machine that he mothballed after finding out it could be turned into a bomb. Definitely can't blame him for becoming reclusive.

 

[hafizbat]

Bale was not "weak" at all in the TDK trilogy, in any sense of the word. The overall tone was very grounded, but that doesn't mean Bale's Bruce/Batman was weak.

Not only did he have great physical strength and skill (especially in BB and TDK), but his inner strength was one of my favorite things about the TDK trilogy. Relentless, fearless, and never hesitating to do whatever it takes to save Gotham. He was ready to sacrifice his father's name in Begins, his moral code (sonar) and honor (taking the fall for Dent) in TDK, and even his life in TDKR. Not to mention how he bankrupted his family company in an effort to save Gotham in other ways...and how he would rather let his company sink than let even the smallest chance of danger exist because of him.

I loved his asceticism and selflessness...it's hard to explain, but he was just so manly. Doing whatever it takes without a second thought about the personal cost or recognition.

It's kinda meta in a way, because he probably won't get as much acclaim and love as Batfleck will, but he'll likely be much more heroic than the Miller-inspired Affleck.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Bale's Batman did feel downright powerful times.

This is one of my favorite of those moments

Would Bale's Batman have the same impact in a film with Superman? probably not, but in the world he was in he was the downright Bat god at times.

 

[hafizbat]

He was especially beastly in Begins.

 

[JackWhite]

For all my quibbles with TDKR, I absolutely loved seeing Batman that vulnerable and not quite up to par; to end the trilogy. It was quite jarring seeing Bane take him out so effortlessly, especially when you think about what he accomplished at the end of TDK and even the great feats he pulled off in BB. It's another reason why I do appreciate TDKR so much as a conclusion, because we saw a clear cut, albeit somewhat truncated, beginning, middle, and end of Batman; of Bruce Wayne.

I don't know, maybe some people just like to see Batman always on top of his game where he never really breaks a sweat, but for me it was very exciting, even surreal at times seeing Bruce really having to rebuild himself to stop Bane and save Gotham just one last time in TDKR.

 

[Decepticonus]

His childhood friend is killed, the person he wanted to succeed him in some capacity was turned bad, his body wasn't in the best shape, a bill created by his own lie rendered him no longer as effective at what he set out to do and he tried to make a clean energy machine that he mothballed after finding out it could be turned into a bomb. Definitely can't blame him for becoming reclusive.

Thank you for putting all of that into context, I never really thought of it all like that, though I was never on the "Batman can't be sad and given up" side anyway.

For all my quibbles with TDKR, I absolutely loved seeing Batman that vulnerable and not quite up to par; to end the trilogy. It was quite jarring seeing Bane take him out so effortlessly, especially when you think about what he accomplished at the end of TDK and even the great feats he pulled off in BB. It's another reason why I do appreciate TDKR so much as a conclusion, because we saw a clear cut, albeit somewhat truncated, beginning, middle, and end of Batman; of Bruce Wayne.

I don't know, maybe some people just like to see Batman always on top of his game where he never really breaks a sweat, but for me it was very exciting, even surreal at times seeing Bruce really having to rebuild himself to stop Bane and save Gotham just one last time in TDKR.

This is why I LOVE TDKR. Denny O'Neil has made note how we need the heroes to fail sometimes, it creates drama, a more human hero is more interesting and to remind us that the hero is well... human. Plus, always seeing Batman strive and struggle against any problem is always awesome. Like the ep. in TAS where he's blind he doesn't give up but is challenged or the Venom story is amazing.

 

[Malicked]

He was especially beastly in Begins.

The funny thing is Bale had become even bigger than what we saw in Begins but he had to cut down to fit in the Batsuit. The suit in TDK sequels as well as Bruce Wayne's overall physicality was always Nolan's optimum look. Which is kind of amusing because there was some grumbling that Bale didn't look as beastly as he did in Begins and some fans missed that look.

Ben Affleck was always going to have to be the biggest Batman ever. For what it's worth, you need some sort of physicality as a psychological effect when going up against a god that is Superman (even though in a fist fight with no gadgets Superman would kill Bruce with his finger).

 

[BatLobster]

@Jack that Batman v Batman v Batman video is fantastic.

 

[shauner111]

The funny thing is Bale had become even bigger than what we saw in Begins but he had to cut down to fit in the Batsuit. The suit in TDK sequels as well as Bruce Wayne's overall physicality was always Nolan's optimum look. Which is kind of amusing because there was some grumbling that Bale didn't look as beastly as he did in Begins and some fans missed that look.

Ben Affleck was always going to have to be the biggest Batman ever. For what it's worth, you need some sort of physicality as a psychological effect when going up against a god that is Superman (even though in a fist fight with no gadgets Superman would kill Bruce with his finger).

Other than the fact that Snyder has a hard-on for muscles, it makes perfect sense to cast Affleck and go with that bulky Miller look when you're doing a universe with Superman, the Justice League, Darkseid etc. BEASTLY gods, kings, aliens, metahumans. Affleck is 6'4'' and we know the guy can get jacked. That's perfect for a Batman that looks straight out of the comics and needs to go up against Superman.

But everybody gets so hung up on visuals, that they sometimes only care about the look. That frustrates me. They're willing to throw away everything that Bale was about as Bruce Wayne and even Batman in order to convince themselves that Affleck is the perfect/better Batman. They haven't seen the movie. They see a very large Batman in a grey/black suit looking cool and we all think it's sweet. But i think the rest is more important. I feel the same about my childhood favorite Michael Keaton. People look at the voice and the suit and that's usually their argument. "Keaton was a better Batman. He didnt growl, he was calmer..". That's all you got? That's what makes the guy "Batman" over Bale? I dont get it sometimes.

 

[Brother Jack]

I'm still waiting to see Affeck's Batman go at it in motion. I think the bat-suit is great in a lot of ways but it doesn't look all that mobile, which is particularly jarring coming off of the TDK suit which was all about flexibility. The cowl in particular looks pretty constricting.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I'm still waiting to see Affeck's Batman go at it in motion. I think the bat-suit is great in a lot of ways but it doesn't look all that mobile, which is particularly jarring coming off of the TDK suit which was all about flexibility. The cowl in particular looks pretty constricting.

What? It looks just as mobile as the Superman suit, i.e. very very mobile.

Bale's suits were never particularly flexible, and his fight scenes came off as stiff (so did most of the Batmen before him as well)

 

[Brother Jack]

What? It looks just as mobile as the Superman suit, i.e. very very mobile.

Bale's suits were never particularly flexible, and his fight scenes came off as stiff (so did most of the Batmen before him as well)

I've only seen him move in the teaser and that was barely much at all. Haven't seen any of the set videos or anything.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Bale's suits were never particularly flexible

Bale said that the TDK suit was very flexible compared to the Forever suit he wore for his audition and his Begins suit. However, the trade off was that it was a lot heavier.

 

[Decepticonus]

What? It looks just as mobile as the Superman suit, i.e. very very mobile.

Bale's suits were never particularly flexible, and his fight scenes came off as stiff (so did most of the Batmen before him as well)

Bale said that the TDK suit was very flexible compared to the Forever suit he wore for his audition and his Begins suit. However, the trade off was that it was a lot heavier.

I think part of the problem was Bale's combat was a bit stiff, due to that odd martial art they gave him.

But I can see how one would think this new suit could be stiff based off just what we've seen but I trust Snyder won't do that.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Even if the main suit is stiff, the stunt suits have concessions made into them to allow it to be more flaccid................

 

[The Shape]

I'm still waiting to see Affeck's Batman go at it in motion. I think the bat-suit is great in a lot of ways but it doesn't look all that mobile, which is particularly jarring coming off of the TDK suit which was all about flexibility. The cowl in particular looks pretty constricting.

Looks can be deceiving. It's probably the most lightweight and/or flexible Batsuit yet.