The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 156

[The Joker]

I've seen this with The Batman '22. Nearly everyone I've met and talked about the film with thought it was 'Eh, it was okay'. They call it slow and some parts boring. Too long.

But on nerd-spaces online, it is the only valid Batman film ever, apparently. A masterpiece of deep, mature cinema.

That reminds me of a long time member here who was banned, and he used to talk like that all the time. He was insufferable.

 

[Dede]

That reminds me of a long time member here who was banned, and he used to talk like that all the time. He was insufferable.

Anno?

 

[The Joker]

Anno?

No I'm talking about shauner.

 

[Dede]

No I'm talking about shauner.

Ahh. It seemed like he changed before he got banned

 

[OnLeatherWings]

That reminds me of a long time member here who was banned, and he used to talk like that all the time. He was insufferable.

It really becomes an insufferable stance, rather quickly. It's constant "I'm mature and have sophisticated taste; I don't bother with those SILLY Batman movies for little kids!"

It's a very "take me seriously!!!!" vibe that I see among LetterBox'd bros.

I always joke that "The Batman is a seewious film for seewious people!"

Don't get me wrong - I really like or even love the film. But I have a hard time stomaching its fans, these days.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Batman fans are a very unique bunch; they got a taste of critical acclaim and film-bro acceptance with the Dark Knight Trilogy. And I don't think they ever wanted to let that aspect of Batman's film success go - it set up this distinction Batman has from 'those other superhero movies...'. They seem eager to have Batman taken seriously in a way that a Marvel film or other blockbusters are not.

So this new Batman serious is darker, grittier, more serious, and of course - this means it's more 'deep' and thus more valid than The Dark Knight Trilogy, the Burton films, and most other comic book films. They also do this with the comics, as well. The darker, the more deep it is, supposedly.

Fans of this trilogy were also guilty of this - but I found them far less obnoxious to deal with.

 

[Mysteryman]

Batman fans are a very unique bunch; they got a taste of critical acclaim and film-bro acceptance with the Dark Knight Trilogy. And I don't think they ever wanted to let that aspect of Batman's film success go - it set up this distinction Batman has from 'those other superhero movies...'. They seem eager to have Batman taken seriously in a way that a Marvel film or other blockbusters are not.

So this new Batman serious is darker, grittier, more serious, and of course - this means it's more 'deep' and thus more valid than The Dark Knight Trilogy, the Burton films, and most other comic book films. They also do this with the comics, as well. The darker, the more deep it is, supposedly.

Fans of this trilogy were also guilty of this - but I found them far less obnoxious to deal with.

My favorite is,Batman Begins.
I do have, The Batman in my top five though.

 

[J.Drangal]

So this new Batman serious is darker, grittier, more serious, and of course - this means it's more 'deep' and thus more valid than The Dark Knight Trilogy, the Burton films, and most other comic book films. They also do this with the comics, as well. The darker, the more deep it is, supposedly.

While I sincerely appreciate its overall direction, intent, and sincerity behind it, I still feel like The Batman is actually a bit guilty of being "style over substance" (but what style though!).

As I said before, there was a lot of promises and themes laid out during the press tour that I ultimately found a bit underdeveloped in the film. But because the film has a certain “tone”, some film bros (as you said) are just too quick to take it as this "ground-breaking character study like never seen before".
Conversely, it seems they can't see beyond the more stylized visuals of a Burton to realize all the subtext present in his Batman films. The red flag being “Burton's films were 100% about the villain...”. *sigh*

Batman fans are a very unique bunch; they got a taste of critical acclaim and film-bro acceptance with the Dark Knight Trilogy. And I don't think they ever wanted to let that aspect of Batman's film success go - it set up this distinction Batman has from 'those other superhero movies...'. They seem eager to have Batman taken seriously in a way that a Marvel film or other blockbusters are not.

I agree with that and I'll actually plead guilty.

I think Batman has that advantage of attracting interesting filmmakers and creators, which gave the franchise its share of success, freedom and heart.
I don't follow Marvel Studios much, but while I don't doubt that some of their films are effective entertainments, I feel like they will always lack authenticity to me, due to the fact that they are created primarily to fit into a product line rather than to realize sincere projects (sounds a bit caricatural, but you get the idea).

...or I'm just a snob.

 

[Dede]

Most fans of the Batman 2022 are pretty good. I’ve seen a few who do the mature thing but overall they are fine

 

[The Batman]

From what I've seen/read, Some (and I do mean some) Reeves fans act like Reeves' take is more "valid" because it's supposedly more like the comics.

IMO, much like Snyder fans, some Reeves fans act like their preferred Batman is the most comic accurate Batman there ever was, based mostly off surface level details. They also love downplaying or ignoring that their preferred Batman takes as many liberties as other versions do.

I think some of the Nolan diehards were just as, if not more fixated on the seriousness and "deepness" of it all compared to everyone else.

 

[Dede]

From what I've seen/read, Some (and I do mean some) Reeves fans act like Reeves' take is more "valid" because it's supposedly more like the comics.

IMO, much like Snyder fans, some Reeves fans act like their preferred Batman is the most comic accurate Batman there ever was, based mostly off surface level details. They also love downplaying or ignoring that their preferred Batman takes as many liberties as other versions do.

I think some of the Nolan diehards were just as, if not more fixated on the seriousness and "deepness" of it all compared to everyone else.

The ones that get me are the Batman fans that say that Bruce quitting isn’t accurate to the comics when that’s happened in the comics before

 

[The Batman]

These are the same fans that probably love the Timmverse and Dark Knight Returns, two versions of Batman that at some point had Batman quit, and let Gotham go to waste.

Bale Bruce quit the first time because he wasn't needed, then left a successor behind when he quit for good.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

From what I've seen/read, Some (and I do mean some) Reeves fans act like Reeves' take is more "valid" because it's supposedly more like the comics.

Yeah - which I find wholly untrue. And that's not a knock on Reeves' Batman, either. But I don't think he's any more 'like the comics' than Bale's Batman.

I feel like every new incarnation of Batman has fans going "Finally! A comic accurate Batman!" - rinse and repeat. Until the next one. Which makes the older one suddenly not comic accurate anymore.

IMO, much like Snyder fans, some Reeves fans act like their preferred Batman is the most comic accurate Batman there ever was, based mostly off surface level details.

A lot of the supposed 'accuracy supremacy' for both these versions is window-dressing, at best.

They also love downplaying or ignoring that their preferred Batman takes as many liberties as other versions do.

For sure. And we'll see Reeves' Batman picked apart for all of the liberties it takes when the next one comes along, I'm sure. But doing it now seems to upset a lot of people.

 

[The Shape]

In my "older" age and being further removed from obsessive online fandom, I'm at the point where I pretty much appreciate all live action takes/versions of Batman. Of course, there are pros and cons to each version, things I like better about some versus others, things that bug me, aspects that don't work, etc. But I really do enjoy it all and can find things to appreciate in all of them. They are all accurate to different eras of the comics in various ways. It seems dumb to argue over which is the most comic accurate, or even which is the "best", when all that matters is what you like and enjoy most at the end of the day.

I'm very burnt out in terms of the online discourse of superhero movies and I don't really have the time to engage as much anymore -- especially when it comes to the MCU. Something like the Avengers: Doomsday cast announcement does nothing for me other than make me roll my eyes.

 

[Herofan]

These are the same fans that probably love the Timmverse and Dark Knight Returns, two versions of Batman that at some point had Batman quit, and let Gotham go to waste.

Bale Bruce quit the first time because he wasn't needed, then left a successor behind when he quit for good.

It feels very different both character and world for him to think he is not and supposedly actually just is not needed after being active for just one year.

Timmverse Batman did seem to be active until he pretty much just couldn't be though I guess he could have/should have been able to work with some successor earlier.

 

[Awest66]

It feels very different both character and world for him to think he is not and supposedly actually just is not needed after being active for just one year.

Timmverse Batman did seem to be active until he pretty much just couldn't be though I guess he could have/should have been able to work with some successor earlier.

I think that to Nolan, What Batman actually accomplished is more important than how long he spent doing it.

 

[The Batman]

It feels very different both character and world for him to think he is not and supposedly actually just is not needed after being active for just one year.

Putting aside that the length of activity is irrelevant, given the nature of Nolan Batman...there is no "supposedly". He clearly wasn't needed anymore. He was itching for a reason to be Batman again, and didn't have one until Bane and Catwoman showed up.

Timmverse Batman did seem to be active until he pretty much just couldn't be

...Just...like Nolan Batman.

 

[Herofan]

^Nolan version didn't seem physically incapable of continuing to be Batman at start of TDKR, let alone end of/right after TDK, if so definitely wasn't focused on, compelling, while TAS version did seem to be falling apart by beginning of BB.

Putting aside that the length of activity is irrelevant, given the nature of Nolan Batman...there is no "supposedly". He clearly wasn't needed anymore. He was itching for a reason to be Batman again, and didn't have one until Bane and Catwoman showed up.

Really didn't, don't see why after the Joker escalation would just completely stop, even go opposite.

 

[The Batman]

^Nolan version didn't seem physically incapable of continuing to be Batman at start of TDKR

This isn't relevant to whether or not Bale Batman was needed at the start of TDKR. This honestly just seems like goalpost moving.

Really didn't, don't see why after the Joker escalation would just completely stop, even go opposite.

It didn't stop. It took an 8 year hiatus.

And what happened when that 8 year hiatus was over? Who showed up when Bane robbed the stock exchange?

 

[Awest66]

This isn't relevant to whether or not Bale Batman was needed at the start of TDKR. This honestly just seems like goalpost moving.


It didn't stop. It took an 8 year hiatus.

And what happened when that 8 year hiatus was over? Who showed up when Bane robbed the stock exchange?

Its always been funny to me that some fans idea of "escalation" for the third movie was just Batman fighting Black Mask (a guy whose basically just "Maroni with a wrong color Red Skull face")

 

[BatLobster]

In my "older" age and being further removed from obsessive online fandom, I'm at the point where I pretty much appreciate all live action takes/versions of Batman. Of course, there are pros and cons to each version, things I like better about some versus others, things that bug me, aspects that don't work, etc. But I really do enjoy it all and can find things to appreciate in all of them. They are all accurate to different eras of the comics in various ways. It seems dumb to argue over which is the most comic accurate, or even which is the "best", when all that matters is what you like and enjoy most at the end of the day.

I'm very burnt out in terms of the online discourse of superhero movies and I don't really have the time to engage as much anymore -- especially when it comes to the MCU. Something like the Avengers: Doomsday cast announcement does nothing for me other than make me roll my eyes.

100%.

I will say, I do think oversaturation + social media kind of ruined the genre. The oversaturation led to a jaded fanbase + social media heightened polarization among fans + content creator fans who are using their fandom as platform for self-promotion. It's all a toxic recipe that sucked a lot of the fun and connection out of what this used to all be about IMO.

Obviously, there's getting older and priorities changing, all that. But I also really don't think I'm just being nostalgic when I say that 2000-2012 was the golden era for being a fan and participating in online fan culture. As well as the content itself, by and large.

 

[Awest66]

I feel even more confident that TDKR was meant to be in two parts and part 1 was gonna end with this:

Nolan would never have have done that. He'd consider it a silly gimmick.

 

[Gothamsknight]

100%.

I will say, I do think oversaturation + social media kind of ruined the genre. The oversaturation led to a jaded fanbase + social media heightened polarization among fans + content creator fans who are using their fandom as platform for self-promotion. It's all a toxic recipe that sucked a lot of the fun and connection out of what this used to all be about IMO.

Obviously, there's getting older and priorities changing, all that. But I also really don't think I'm just being nostalgic when I say that 2000-2012 was the golden era for being a fan and participating in online fan culture. As well as the content itself, by and large.

I don't really post on here much anymore, but I'm chiming in to say I'm in the same boat. I don't really have much fun talking about these films as much as I used to, especially not on social media. The whole thing just feels alien to me at this point.

I miss the pre MCU days honestly. I know it's an unpopular opinion, but things felt so much more special then. Everything feels like it's an assembly line these days. And, not to gate keep, but the teens today on things like X have made it so much worse. Between them, and the film snobs who are arm chair cinematography experts, it's made discussing these types of movies frustrating.

For example, take a look at James Gunns Superman film. Personally, I think it looks great. That recent trailer actually made me feel something. You go on X, and all you see is cinematography experts crapping all over it along with people accusing Gunn of making choices regarding the story they don't even know whether it's true or not.

I'm just so burnt out on all of it. The genre needs a jolt of something special. Gunns Superman at least looks very unique and different. And sincere, above all else!

 

[The Joker]

Remember this. Never has a marketing campaign for a CBM felt so epic.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

After 3 years of being told that the newest Batman is "finally" a "faithful adaptation of Batman" and that no prior Batman films were at all faithful or near as close to the source material...

...in a schadenfreude kind of way - I can't wait until Reeves' Batman fans have to be lectured that the new Batman is far more faithful than his ever was.

Because it will happen. It is inevitable.

(Disclaimer - I love Reeves' Batman, too. I just think it's no more or less faithful than Nolan, Burton or Schumacher's Batman films)