The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 156

I haven't never bothered to rewatch TDKR for a few reasons, but the most glaring was just how utterly disappointed I was with what Nolan seemed to throw together. For a craftsman-like Nolan who makes certain creative decisions based on painstaking deliberations, I felt as if he phoned in this movie. The biggest issue is the time jump between TDK and TDKR. Bruce has only been Batman for the span of 4-5 years, maybe (?) then he takes an 8-year hiatus.

This hiatus is further plugged into the realm of absurdity when you bring Bane into the picture. Don't get me wrong, Tom Hardy is a great actor but one of Nolan's biggest problems is the lack of diversity in his filmography. Both Ra’s Al Ghul and Bane were race swapped which were done out of convenience instead of storytelling enhancements. This creative decision is on the same level of Benedict Cumberbatch playing Khan in Star Trek. Things get much worse for the film when you throw in allegories on deeper socioeconomic disparities and inequality, but never spend enough time really showing how bad things are besides having a few quick scenes of rich people getting their homes broken into and dragged into the streets. Even more baffling is Bruce's romantic duality with Catwoman and Talia. He's still recovering from Rachel but after Alfred decides to tell him the truth, he wants to find love all over again?
What's wrong with the time jump? How many years Batman operated and took a hiatus has no bearing to the story at all, unless if you have preconceived notions how long each period should be. It works for the story and the overall realism Nolan aimed to achieve.

The race swap has little effect, really, because the villains are mostly political archetypes. Adding a race element would have added little to the characters. Unlike the comics were the geographical philosophies of the character are evident, Nolan's are more universal.

I agree that more time could have been spent in Gotham during the actual revolution before Batman's return, but it is adequate enough to not drag the quality of the film down. But I disagree that in portraying Gotham under Bane's rule only the side of the rich were shown. Gordon talking to Foley urging him to rise up. Catwoman saving a kid from two adults and watching the common folks loot rich people. Blake running around to make communications with the trapped policemen. And some others that I might have forgotten.

Did he really wanted another love? Just because he had sex with Talia or was enamored by both her and Selina does not mean he wants another love. That is clearly demonstrated when he refused Talia's offer to fly away from Gotham.

After 7 years, TDKR has grown in my eyes even more after so many CBMs having the same problems that it supposedly has.
 
Don’t make something out of nothing. Nolan needed an under-construction skyscraper in downtown Chicago for TDK. Sadly, it was Trump’s...

It was a joke.

Also, that picture is from when they used Trump Tower in NYC, while filming The Dark Knight Rises.
 
Even more baffling is Bruce's romantic duality with Catwoman and Talia. He's still recovering from Rachel but after Alfred decides to tell him the truth, he wants to find love all over again?

Talia was specifically preying on Bruce's grief over Rachel. She goes to his house and picks up the picture of Rachel and then makes the first move on him. You could say even her appearance purposely evokes Rachel. His relationship with Selina develops more slowly, but you can see there's an instant chemistry between them. She's the first person to draw him back into the world and into living. Bruce was lonely and dejected. It makes sense that he would be drawn by these two women who on the surface appear to be one thing but prove themselves to be the opposite by the film's end. Nolan emphasizes this through structure by having Selina's and Miranda's scenes often placed right next to each other. They're introduced at about the same time, Bruce sees both at the masquerade ball, Bruce sleeps with Miranda and then right after Batman meets Catwoman in the sewer, etc.
 
What's wrong with the time jump? How many years Batman operated and took a hiatus has no bearing to the story at all, unless if you have preconceived notions how long each period should be. It works for the story and the overall realism Nolan aimed to achieve.

The race swap has little effect, really, because the villains are mostly political archetypes. Adding a race element would have added little to the characters. Unlike the comics were the geographical philosophies of the character are evident, Nolan's are more universal.

I agree that more time could have been spent in Gotham during the actual revolution before Batman's return, but it is adequate enough to not drag the quality of the film down. But I disagree that in portraying Gotham under Bane's rule only the side of the rich were shown. Gordon talking to Foley urging him to rise up. Catwoman saving a kid from two adults and watching the common folks loot rich people. Blake running around to make communications with the trapped policemen. And some others that I might have forgotten.

Did he really wanted another love? Just because he had sex with Talia or was enamored by both her and Selina does not mean he wants another love. That is clearly demonstrated when he refused Talia's offer to fly away from Gotham.

After 7 years, TDKR has grown in my eyes even more after so many CBMs having the same problems that it supposedly has.
Well said, my friend. Agreed!
 
What's wrong with the time jump? How many years Batman operated and took a hiatus has no bearing to the story at all, unless if you have preconceived notions how long each period should be. It works for the story and the overall realism Nolan aimed to achieve.

The race swap has little effect, really, because the villains are mostly political archetypes. Adding a race element would have added little to the characters. Unlike the comics were the geographical philosophies of the character are evident, Nolan's are more universal.

I agree that more time could have been spent in Gotham during the actual revolution before Batman's return, but it is adequate enough to not drag the quality of the film down. But I disagree that in portraying Gotham under Bane's rule only the side of the rich were shown. Gordon talking to Foley urging him to rise up. Catwoman saving a kid from two adults and watching the common folks loot rich people. Blake running around to make communications with the trapped policemen. And some others that I might have forgotten.

Did he really wanted another love? Just because he had sex with Talia or was enamored by both her and Selina does not mean he wants another love. That is clearly demonstrated when he refused Talia's offer to fly away from Gotham.

After 7 years, TDKR has grown in my eyes even more after so many CBMs having the same problems that it supposedly has.

The time jump doesn’t work for me, personally, for a number of reasons. One Bruce establishes Batman as a tool to strike fear into the hearts of the corrupt politicians and Gotham’s crime infested underbelly. This symbol is developed in Batman Begins, heavily implied to have grown in influence by TDK, and becomes the polar opposite during the 8-year hiatus until TDKR. This makes Batman’s ‘legacy’ chalked up to stopping a fear toxin, imprisoning an anarchist, and stopping a nuclear bomb from going off. Just one of these accomplishments would embellish anyone into the hall of legends, but for Nolan, he uses the time jump more as a method of showing how the lie surrounding Dent protected the city. But the very first few lines of dialogue at Wayne Manor during the anniversary of the Dent Act show that corruption is still rampant. I’m just suggesting Nolan could have had Bruce still operating to some extent during this 8-year period instead of being a hermit crab.

The race swap has little effect on the storytelling elements, sure, but I’m speaking more from a representation perspective which gets into an entirely different conversation. Nolan used these two characters to represent a different dynamic and philosophy to ones held by Bruce/Batman. These characters could still have been portrayed similarly by actors that are based on the regions in which these characters in the comics are linked to. I don’t see how ignoring these factors makes the character more universal. Ra's Al Ghul and Bane being of Middle Eastern and Latin American descent, respectively, wouldn’t require a deep dive into their motivations.

Batman Begins did a better job at truly capturing how bad crime in Gotham was affecting people--especially near Arkham. Showing quick scenes of a half dozen characters demonstrating they have a moral compass isn’t enough exposition. Showing citizens reacting to Bane exposing the lie should have carried more weight but the closest thing we get is Blake criticizing Gordon which was just an excuse for Nolan to use another line from A Tale of Two Cities.

We don’t know what Bruce wants with other women because it’s never explored. He spends BB and TDK obsessed with Rachel so by the time she’s no longer in the picture we actually don’t know what he wants. The assumption is once Alfred tells him the truth about Rachel wanting to be with Dent, he suddenly is ready to move on. One could even assume him being in Italy with Selina would imply some deeper romantic interest, right?

TDKR is not a horrible film compared to many other comic book movies that come to mind. I just think Nolan should have either taken his time or not introduced stereotypical trilogy tropes.
 
Don’t make something out of nothing. Nolan needed an under-construction skyscraper in downtown Chicago for TDK. Sadly, it was Trump’s...

Nolan is a big Trump guy. Recently spotted on the set of Tenet wearing a MAGA hat.
 
Bruce-Wayne-and-Donald-Trump.jpg

Bale was on the Happy Sad Confused podcast last year and talked about how the orange one seemed confused that Bale was an actor and insisted on addressing him as Bruce Wayne. :hehe:
 
I'm still not sure if Trump's speech writer intentionally quoted Bane in his inauguration speech. If he did, that's a level of irony that could (further) threaten the fabric of reality.
 


Impressive for 38 seconds, understandable, even fairly sincere. I can see him actually being impressed by the visuals and the entertainment value (and the anti-anti-rich themes).

The biggest issue is the time jump between TDK and TDKR. Bruce has only been Batman for the span of 4-5 years, maybe (?)

I believe it was 1 year or just a bit more.

Things get much worse for the film when you throw in allegories on deeper socioeconomic disparities and inequality, but never spend enough time really showing how bad things are besides having a few quick scenes of rich people getting their homes broken into and dragged into the streets.

Agreed but I frankly think TDK also did more showing than telling.
 
It will be funny if one day Trump came out and said that Bane inspired him to run for presidency. It sounds rather believable.
 
Hi guys I’m new to the site I just wanted to ask here tdkr is still loved and acclaimed right? I see so much hate online but every review score is high from IMDb to rotten Tomatoes to Metacritic. I’m inclined to believe it’s a loud minority even on here
 
It is still loved, yes. There are those who say it's their preferred film over TDK as well.
 
I don't know... Batman Begins holds up really well on repeat viewings. It's making its way into the No. 1 slot for me.
 
Tdkr holds as my number 1 for me till the end of time . I can’t really pick a number 2 though. Begins and Dark Knight are equal to me in different ways it’s like the original Star Wars trilogy. Whichever one I’ve watched latest takes the number 2 spot.
 
TDKRises is still too fat, in the early-middle and end.

If we have to go with that storyline, break Batman's back/end film. Then have another that touches upon more on the fall of Gotham.

Still wish Nolan killed Bruce. Having Logan and now the MCU pull it off when Nolan had all of the cards first is aggravating.

BB is still great almost perfect (wish Maggie was originally Rachel/Harvey was introduced in BB), TDK is a masterpiece. TDKRises is very good, but it has the most issues of the three... easily.

And, the first 45 minutes of BB is still the best Batman movie we've ever got... and he technically isn't even Batman during those 45 minutes.
 
Each to there own but Bruce being alive makes me happy. That never happens for him so that why I think it’s pretty special in the Batman universe
 
Yup. Especially seeing as Logan and Endgame went with deaths for the heroes, it makes TDKR actually stand out more-- and in a good way.

Everyone was expecting that with Nolan's final Batman film. Batman dies because it's the grimdark/tragic end for the grimdark/tragic hero. But they wisely framed the whole movie as Bruce getting over his death wish, overcoming his demons and discovering the will to live. That's a really powerful story to tell and Batman story that's pretty much never told. I'll always be grateful for that ending. Killing Batman just for the cheap "yeah....we just did that" shock value would've been such a lame way to end the movie, considering Bruce's character arc.
 
Yup. Especially seeing as Logan and Endgame went with deaths for the heroes, it makes TDKR actually stand out more-- and in a good way.

Everyone was expecting that with Nolan's final Batman film. Batman dies because it's the grimdark/tragic end for the grimdark/tragic hero. But they wisely framed the whole movie as Bruce getting over his death wish, overcoming his demons and discovering the will to live. That's a really powerful story to tell and Batman story that's pretty much never told. I'll always be grateful for that ending. Killing Batman just for the cheap "yeah....we just did that" shock value would've been such a lame way to end the movie, considering Bruce's character arc.
It works with Logan because he always wanted to die or that’s what it seemed to me. So death for him was a happy ending. For Bruce the whole film was about him getting over his death wish and the ending was specifically that. I absolutely agree with you there.
 
But, then don’t “kill” Batman just so Bruce can live out his days. This was always going to be the end to a trilogy... so killing him/having him make a sacrificial play made sense.

Not, letting Bruce have a soulful lifetime vacation.

If he fully committed to being Batman post-Bane’s reign... then sure, that would have been neat. But, we all know that was never in the cards for Nolan’s Batman.
 


That's a really good video. Makes some excellent points.

Hi guys I’m new to the site I just wanted to ask here tdkr is still loved and acclaimed right? I see so much hate online but every review score is high from IMDb to rotten Tomatoes to Metacritic. I’m inclined to believe it’s a loud minority even on here

Its definitely a loud minority. There is absolutely no stats that show TDKR is even close to being hated by any kind of consensus. Its not even divisive.
 

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