The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 156

[Dede]

My impression has always been that out of those two, the GA loves TDKR while fanboys prefer BB.

I want to say that’s because GA likes it more and they just know it more. Begins is still slept under and forgotten behind the other 2 since as it didn’t make as much and doesn’t have dark knight in its name. Stupid reasoning but I think it might be true

 

[antsman41]

...while TDK is amazing and Heath's Joker is one of a kind. BB is still my favorite "Batman" film purely on the notion of getting the best Bruce Wayne iteration on screen, those first 45 minutes are spectacular and something I thought we'd never get in a film.

And, if TDK didn't have what BB brought before it... it would be a weaker film. The fact that every Bruce scene is actually Batman working without his "cape and cowl" is why that film is also amazing.

Seriously, every scene.

 

[The Joker]

Holy moly there's over 65k votes on that.

 

[shauner111]

Still my favourite trilogy.

Rises is the weakest from a editing standpoint. It’s a nightmare of a editing job. Another draft of the screenplay would have worked wonders too. TDK has the best script. Begins has the best atmosphere and character building for Bruce. But Rises has satisfying moments that top most comic book movies IMO.

People have been giving TDKR its due since the Snyder movies came out. Especially with the ‘film twitter’ community growing larger in the last couple of years. However, I would be prepared for 2012 levels of throwing it under the bus once The Batman drops. And I get it. It’s for good reason. But hey, it’s better than most of the MCU (hell, I’ll take it over any MCU).

I’m curious, where do you guys rank Joker among the past Batman films. Let’s include Birds of Prey in there as well (next to the Burton, Shumacher, Nolan, Snyder movies)??

 

[Dede]

Still my favourite trilogy.

Rises is the weakest from a editing standpoint. It’s a nightmare of a editing job. Another draft of the screenplay would have worked wonders too. TDK has the best script. Begins has the best atmosphere and character building for Bruce. But Rises has satisfying moments that top most comic book movies IMO.

People have been giving TDKR its due since the Snyder movies came out. Especially with the ‘film twitter’ community growing larger in the last couple of years. However, I would be prepared for 2012 levels of throwing it under the bus once The Batman drops. And I get it. It’s for good reason. But hey, it’s better than most of the MCU (hell, I’ll take it over any MCU).

I’m curious, where do you guys rank Joker among the past Batman films. Let’s include Birds of Prey in there as well (next to the Burton, Shumacher, Nolan, Snyder movies)??

That’s a hard question. I enjoy birds of prey a lot and like joker so my list would go
Tdkr
Tdk
BB
89
BOP
Joker
BF
BR
Bvs
B&R

 

[Dede]

Holy moly there's over 65k votes on that.

Tdkr is pretty solidified as number 2 in the trilogy I think. Though even as the biggest rises fan the voting is somewhat staggering to me. I was expecting 70-30

 

[Gothamsknight]

Both BB and TDKR are amazing films, and i often have trouble deciding which is better, and even though I currently rank BB above TDKR, its great to see TDKR win that poll. for some reason, people tend to think TDKR is a bad movie, or failed in some way and i dont agree with that at all in the slightest. TDK is the best CBM of all time, and i think people were expecting it to eclipse that film, which was always gonna be a tough thing and what we got ended up being intense, ambitious, emotional, and very satisfying to me. It's better than most of the CBM of recent years, I think, and easily my favorite third film in a superhero film trilogy. It's also one of the reasons TDK trilogy is one of the best trilogies of all time as well as the best CBM trilogy of all time, and my personal favorite trilogy of all time. 3rd films are always known for having to struggle to live up to the highs of the previous 2, and overall I think TDKR managed to do that the best it could in a very satisfying way.

TDKR also had some of the best fight scenes ive seen, with that sewer fight remaining one of my favorites in film. All in all, I think the treatment that film gets is unfair. is it perfect? No, but compare it to most other CBM, and it'll win by default.

Also, let's not forget, Bane is one of the most memorable villains in recent memory too.

 

[Dede]

Both BB and TDKR are amazing films, and i often have trouble deciding which is better, and even though I currently rank BB above TDKR, its great to see TDKR win that poll. for some reason, people tend to think TDKR is a bad movie, or failed in some way and i dont agree with that at all in the slightest. TDK is the best CBM of all time, and i think people were expecting it to eclipse that film, which was always gonna be a tough thing and what we got ended up being intense, ambitious, emotional, and very satisfying to me. It's better than most of the CBM of recent years, I think, and easily my favorite third film in a superhero film trilogy. It's also one of the reasons TDK trilogy is one of the best trilogies of all time as well as the best CBM trilogy of all time, and my personal favorite trilogy of all time. 3rd films are always known for having to struggle to live up to the highs of the previous 2, and overall I think TDKR managed to do that the best it could in a very satisfying way.

TDKR also had some of the best fight scenes ive seen, with that sewer fight remaining one of my favorites in film. All in all, I think the treatment that film gets is unfair. is it perfect? No, but compare it to most other CBM, and it'll win by default.

Also, let's not forget, Bane is one of the most memorable villains in recent memory too.

The poll shows that tdkr is plenty loved. I’d say tdkr didn’t fail at all. Most threequels are the weakest but tdkr became the 2nd best of the trilogy which is rare. So in that respect it lived up to is expectations. It might not have surpassed tdk but it was a huge success

 

[Dede]

Sorry if I sound very repetitive in here

 

[Gothamsknight]

The poll shows that tdkr is plenty loved. I’d say tdkr didn’t fail at all. Most threequels are the weakest but tdkr became the 2nd best of the trilogy which is rare. So in that respect it lived up to is expectations. It might not have surpassed tdk but it was a huge success

I completely agree.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

This is because a lotta proles didn't even watch Begins. Member, it made a paltry 370 mill at the box office.

 

[shauner111]

“Member”.

 

[Dede]

This is because a lotta proles didn't even watch Begins. Member, it made a paltry 370 mill at the box office.

That accounts for some of the votes but I think rises is just looked as better than begins. Begins is also gaining new followers as people are finding out about it

 

[The Joker]

People found out about Begins long ago. Begins is extremely well known. Has been for years post TDK.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

I suspect not. TDK made more than 600 mill at the BO than BB. Ya just don't bridge that kinda gap even if suckas stumbled onto the film at home over da years.

 

[BatLobster]

Begins had great legs at the box office, great word of mouth and then did really well on home video. That's the stat people tend to forget about, and with the 3 year wait between films there was a lot of time for people to catch up, which added to the aura and hype for TDK.

But sure, there were some trendhoppers (I don't mean that in a bad way) with TDK who go into it more with the Heath Ledger angle and just the general pop culture phenomenon.

Begins solidified itself in pop culture over the years though. There's a joke about it in that Tina Fey/Amy Poehler movie Sisters, which is basically a chick flick comedy, when they're watching Game of Thrones and point out that Joffrey is "the kid from Batman Begins!!". That cracked me up.

 

[The Joker]

Exactly. Aside from the fact that TDK, and later TDKR brought even further attention to BB, you cannot judge a movie's fame solely by box office. There's a ton of movies that tanked or severely under performed at the box office that are well known, and some even regarded as cinematic greats e.g. Fight Club, The Shawshank Redemption etc.

 

[Dede]

Begins is also well know internationally as is the whole trilogy in other country’s movie database rankings

 

[Gothamsknight]

I think word of mouth for how incredible BB was spread rather quickly. its interesting, in early 2005, I remember someone telling me "I'm more excited for Fantastic Four since the last Batman film was terrible". haha, Batman Begins ended up being amazing, and to this day the best origin story comic book film ever.

 

[DACrowe]

I think this poll really is a reminder while fandom is very divided on the movie (and I think a particular stripe of online critics that were coming into their own around 2012, you know the type I'm referring to), the general audience as well as older "establishment" critics really did largely like Rises. Everyone agrees it's not as good as TDK, but its "disappointment" levels are heightened by an online echo chamber.

I remember everyone not on a forum I knew in 2012 at least liking if not loving it, and it remains part of "the trilogy" of superhero movies for folks who generally don't like "superhero movies" (which is now synonymous with Marvel Studios movies). Begins has that too, but Rises is less formulaic and more epic, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that those who follow Chance the Rapper care less about Bruce Wayne retiring or Bane serving Talia.

Anyway based on above posts, I'd rank Batman related movies like this:

1. The Dark Knight (10//10)
2. The Dark Knight Rises (9/10)
3. Batman Begins (9/10)
4. Batman '89 (8.5/10)
5. Batman Returns (8/10)
6. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (8/10)
7. Joker (8/10)
8. Birds of Prey (7.5/10)
9. Batman: The Movie (7/10)
10. Batman Forever (6/10)
11. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (3/10)
12. Batman & Robin (2/10)

 

[Dede]

I think this poll really is a reminder while fandom is very divided on the movie (and I think a particular stripe of online critics that were coming into their own around 2012, you know the type I'm referring to), the general audience as well as older "establishment" critics really did largely like Rises. Everyone agrees it's not as good as TDK, but its "disappointment" levels are heightened by an online echo chamber.

I remember everyone not on a forum I knew in 2012 at least liking if not loving it, and it remains part of "the trilogy" of superhero movies for folks who generally don't like "superhero movies" (which is now synonymous with Marvel Studios movies). Begins has that too, but Rises is less formulaic and more epic, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that those who follow Chance the Rapper care less about Bruce Wayne retiring or Bane serving Talia.

Anyway based on above posts, I'd rank Batman related movies like this:

1. The Dark Knight (10//10)
2. The Dark Knight Rises (9/10)
3. Batman Begins (9/10)
4. Batman '89 (8.5/10)
5. Batman Returns (8/10)
6. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (8/10)
7. Joker (8/10)
8. Birds of Prey (7.5/10)
9. Batman: The Movie (7/10)
10. Batman Forever (6/10)
11. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (3/10)
12. Batman & Robin (2/10)

Excellent ranking but if I might add I’d just like to say tdkr isn’t really divided the fandom either. It got an A cinemascore which is from hardcore fans as well as 8.4 form IMDb which is fans and then 90% audience rating in rotten tomatoes with an average of 4.36/5 which is higher than Batman begins and just a bit below dark knight at 4.45/5 so kind a close. And my one final statistic is Rate THE DARK KNIGHT RISES thread where most find it excellent on here where the most hardcore fans live. Sorry about my rambling I just find it that’s the detractors are very loud but small in Comparison to the stats

 

[Awest66]

Found a recent video on Rises by the Youtube channel "Storytellers", It's a good watch.

 

[Brother Jack]

The film is so layered thematically, more than I think even some fans fully give it credit for.

 

[Dede]

The film is so layered thematically, more than I think even some fans fully give it credit for.

It’s as deep as tdk I really think so. They are 2 of the most thoughtful and layered blockbusters ever. Begins as well but I think the later 2 really go hard

 

[Kane52630]

12. Batman & Robin (2/10)