The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 156

[Gothamsknight]

After having seen the film only once, I will say this. I truly loved it and, dare I say it, I feel like it probably is the best comic book flick since TDK! I really need to see it again. I will also say at the moment TDK is still #1 for me though. Now, the #2 spot is currently between Batman Begins and The Batman. Both are great movies, and I think it's gonna be tough for me to decide right now. There's a warmth and comfort to Batman Begins that just resonates with me, and all the set pieces are just *chefs kiss*. At the same time, The Batman is pure Batman bliss and it's like a graphic novel come to life. Both are fantastic movies. Btw, I know people like to pick apart the 3rd act of Begins, but it still works so well for me.

 

[BatLobster]

After having seen the film only once, I will say this. I loved it! I really need to see it again though. However, I will say at the moment TDK is still #1 for me. Now, the #2 spot is currently between Batman Begins and The Batman. Both are great movies, and I think it's gonna be tough for me to decide right now. There's a warmth and comfort to Batman Begins that just resonates with me, and all the set pieces are just *chefs kiss*. At the same time, The Batman is pure Batman bliss and it's like a graphic novel come to live. Both are fantastic movies.

This is pretty much where I landed and had a feeling you'd land as well.

I think the only really way to know how this will rank for me over time is how my next few viewings iron out a few issues I have, and the rewatchability factor over time.

But two things stood out to me after seeing it:

1. Seeing a movie this good and still not being sure if it's quite on that level for me really reminds me how great those Nolan flicks were, or at least how much I connected with them.

2. It's also a testament to how good this movie is that I'm not mad or anything if this is the one to dethrone TDK for some people.

In a way, I almost wish the Nolans could've gotten a pass at tightening up this script a bit, and maybe making the twists a little more shocking. That may have truly made this the ultimate Batman movie for me.

Another weird thing I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is the fact that Pattinson could very well become my favorite Batman or at least near the top...but also currently may be my least favorite Bruce Wayne. I completely get that it's an intentional choice and characterization, but this part is really breaking my brain when it comes to the movie.

 

[Gothamsknight]

This is pretty much where I landed and had a feeling you'd land as well.

I think the only really way to know how this will rank for me over time is how my next few viewings iron out a few issues I have, and the rewatchability factor over time.

But two things stood out to me after seeing it:

1. Seeing a movie this good and still not being sure if it's quite on that level for me really reminds me how great those Nolan flicks were, or at least how much I connected with them.

2. It's also a testament to how good this movie is that I'm not mad or anything if this is the one to dethrone TDK for some people.

In a way, I almost wish the Nolans could've gotten a pass at tightening up this script a bit, and maybe making the twists a little more shocking. That may have truly made this the ultimate Batman movie for me.

Agreed. I think it also makes it truly clear how much talent we've had attached to this character in film. I want to make it clear that I LOVE TDKR, flaws and all, so the fact that I rank this above that one is a testament to how good this film is. Now I just gotta find out whether I prefer Batman Begins over The Batman or vice versa. The 3rd act of The Batman didn't even feel out of place to me, as some have claimed it was. I actually thought it was exciting!

Spoiler

The bit where he grabs the girls hand is peak Batman!

It's clear Reeves was the perfect person to tackle this character after Nolan. Now when it comes to Begins, it does feel now more than ever a bigger movie in a way. Larger than life is obviously the best phrase to describe it haha. With that trilogy in hindsight now, I can see how different Reeves take is compared to what Nolan did, but they are both just as valid. In a lot of ways, I truly adore how Batman Begins is almost Richard Donner esque in it's sincerity for a Batman origin story and it's why the movie works so damn well. It's a journey with Bruce through the world with non linear storytelling. I also admire how Reeves managed to make a bleak/dark noir detective story about a Batman who still has so much to learn. A world dripping with atmosphere, filth, and scum that looks like it was pulled out of a graphic novel. I don't know which I'll rank for #2, but I am truly one happy Batman fan right now. We're in good hands.

 

[BatLobster]

Agreed. I think it also makes it truly clear how much talent we've had attached to this character in film. I want to make it clear that I LOVE TDKR, flaws and all, so the fact that I rank this above that one is a testament to how good this film is. Now I just gotta find out whether I prefer Batman Begins over The Batman or vice versa. The 3rd act of The Batman didn't even feel out of place to me, as some have claimed it was. I actually thought it was exciting!

Spoiler

The bit where he grabs the girls hand is peak Batman!

It's clear Reeves was the perfect person to tackle this character after Nolan. Now when it comes to Begins, it does feel now more than ever a bigger movie in a way. Larger than life is obviously the best phrase to describe it haha. With that trilogy in hindsight now, I can see how different Reeves take is compared to what Nolan did, but they are both just as valid. In a lot of ways, I truly adore how Batman Begins is almost Richard Donner esque in it's sincerity for a Batman origin story and it's why the movie works so damn well. It's a journey with Bruce through the world with non linear storytelling. I also admire how Reeves managed to make a bleak/dark noir detective story about a Batman who still has so much to learn. A world dripping with atmosphere, filth, and scum that looks like it was pulled out of a graphic novel. I don't know which I'll rank for #2, but I am truly one happy Batman fan right now. We're in good hands.

Exactly! I've been saying forever that the Nolan films are essentially the Richard Donner Superman versions of Batman movies. I think they go in a similar bucket as the Raimi Spider-Man films as well (which were also inspired by the Donner films). They are earnest, larger than life superhero stories that start with the origin, get you invested in the person behind the mask, and take you on a journey. TDK is a perfect storm that kind of transcends this, but it is still structured around two icons in a war of ideals.

Now obviously, Batman is a darker character, so the TDKT films are a lot darker and edgier than those films. I think they exist in a unique space that is somewhere between the classic 'superhero' formula, and the super gritty 'adult' comic book films like Joker, Logan, and probably The Batman as well.

But yeah, I'm totally ready to go on the ride into this immersive Gotham City for the next however many years.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I rewatched TDKR for the first time in years, and I gotta say, doesn't hold up as well as I remember it. I was always aware of its flaws, but the flaws here were more apparent. It's definitely the Return of the Jedi of the trilogy. But like ROTJ, despite its many flaws, it has a strong central core for its protagonist and really sticks the landing with ending the story. I do love Bruce's story and Bale's performance and I'm glad Nolan ends it the way he does.

My biggest problem this time was that last half. The Bane occupied Gotham was just so bland and boring. Which is bizarre because Nolan conceptually pushes things forward with the scope and genre. But Nolan's dedication to realism is a detriment to this movie. Bane's controlled Gotham is just barely snow covered with some Tumbler's driving up the empty streets. It needed to be bigger and more dramatic. Really lean into the No Man's Land stuff. For God's sake, it always irked me half the stadium is full. For a guy who loves dealing the biggest canvas possible and wanted to open up the film, it's pretty bland and small. Those scenes with Blake and Gordon and meeting in those rooms and the agent scene are a snooze fest.

Nolan is dealing with more almost ensemble of his films, and BB and TDK are so perfectly balanced. Here, I just think he runs into the problem of the third film of having to tie everything up and introduce the new.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I still love TDKR, despite it's flaws. I do think it's the weakest of the trilogy, but overall still a very solid film with fantastic performances. I also think it wraps up Bruces arc wonderfully. I feel like TDKR flaws tend to show up more because of how close to perfection (and honestly, perfect to me) the trilogy reached with TDK. But when you set that aside, the flaws don't really show up to me as much and it's a very emotional and impactful movie.

 

[BatLobster]

I actually liked how Bane's Gotham was depicted. For me it was bleak more than it was bland. The light amount of snow felt like visual allusion to Gotham being ashes/nuclear winter. The kangaroo court stuff, the frozen rivers, the desolate streets. I dunno. It thoroughly felt like a society that had broken down to me and not a place you'd want to be stuck in. The movie deserves a ton of credit simply for 'going there', a far more extreme scenario than had been put into a superhero film before. And doing so with almost very little CGI and not one green screen. I love the decision to depict most of it during the light of day too. Adds to the bleakness IMO.

On my last rewatch I realized that for me the movie really comes together once Bruce is broken and in the pit. That's when I become very emotionally engaged and it doesn't really let go until the end.

"I'll die before I talk."
"I'm on your schedule, captain."

Dude. So good. Everything out of Bane's mouth is quotable.

Then the rage of Bruce when Bane hangs those special forces guys from the bridge. The movie does such a great job of making you ache to see Bruce escape.

I also think the way this film builds the chant throughout is a stroke of genius that Zimmer deserves a lot of credit for. Incorporating it as this menacing theme for Bane in the score. Then eventually it becomes the actual sound of hell when we first hear it when Bruce is trapped down there. And then it transitions into this encouraging/inspiring chant when we see Bruce escape the pit. Finally it becomes a war chant in the third act. Stuff like that I find just insanely powerful and it overshadows whatever flaws are there for me. It's honestly pretty bold and experimental in what it does.

 

[Herofan]

Did anyone think the prisoner who tossed away the detonator in TDK might be or become Bane? I remember one fan thinking that.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Did anyone think the prisoner who tossed away the detonator in TDK might be or become Bane? I remember one fan thinking that.

I remember people theorizing it was Killer Croc as well haha.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

This movie has some of the best tracks in the series; Deshi-Basara, Why Do We Fall, Bane's theme, No Stone Unturned... it's spectacular.



Also.. that moment in the hospital where the rookie is caught off-guard reminds me of a similar moment from Silence of the Lambs, and the prison time with Talia's mother and Talia was saved reminds me of Alien 3 when the inmates wanted to rape Ellen Ripley but she was saved by the preacher who was imprisoned for being a rapist.

For the rest of the inmates that weren't women in a place full of men who are very horny and eager to rape with no oath of celibacy, this prison well is pretty easy for what Bane called: "Worst Hell on Earth", they had sunlight, electricity, a lot of shade, good space to exercise, good sense of camaraderie between inmates, a good amount of food and water.... the inability to exit the well doesn't make that place worse than the likes of some of the real life prisons you read a lot of nasty things about.

And of all three movies; judge Jonathan Crane is my favorite role for Cillian Murphy in a Christopher Nolan flick.

30 years ago: Batman Returned
10 years ago: The dark Knight Rose
This year: The Batman glides, and Batman Returns again

I wonder if we'll see another Batman movie a decade from now.

You forgot about that legendary BOP intro and those On-Star commercials... were in 2002, lol.

I'll add that they all have Selina Kyle, something I did not consider earlier when making that post.

 

[Awest66]

Just got back from seeing the Batman.

It was pretty damn excellent.

 

[Brother Jack]

I actually liked how Bane's Gotham was depicted. For me it was bleak more than it was bland. The light amount of snow felt like visual allusion to Gotham being ashes/nuclear winter. The kangaroo court stuff, the frozen rivers, the desolate streets. I dunno. It thoroughly felt like a society that had broken down to me and not a place you'd want to be stuck in. The movie deserves a ton of credit simply for 'going there', a far more extreme scenario than had been put into a superhero film before. And doing so with almost very little CGI and not one green screen. I love the decision to depict most of it during the light of day too. Adds to the bleakness IMO.

It's fascinating to me that Bane's Gotham takes on aspects of the pit. It's cut off from the outside world but in full view of it, and an escape ritual forms with the exile over the frozen river that seemingly no one had succeeded at. That is until Batman, just as Bruce succeeds at making the climb out of the pit.

 

[BatLobster]

It's fascinating to me that Bane's Gotham takes on aspects of the pit. It's cut off from the outside world but in full view of it, and an escape ritual forms with the exile over the frozen river that seemingly no one had succeeded at. That is until Batman, just as Bruce succeeds at making the climb out of the pit.

Def intentional too. Great catch. The plot may not be as tight as TDK but I think the use of visual symbolism is just as strong if not even moreso.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Lots of Nolan bashing on twitter. Really making me want to mute some people honestly. What makes it even more pathetic is that the people who claim Nolan isn't comic accurate don't realize how obvious they're making it to everybody else how little of Batman comics they've actually read haha. Doubt they've read a single Dennis O'Neil/Neal Adams era title or they choose to just completely ignore all the long halloween and year one inspirations. I'm convinced more than half of these people just can't stand how love Nolan's Batman movies are. And how influential too. Ugh, sorry, I just needed to vent haha.

 

[BatLobster]

Lots of Nolan bashing on twitter. Really making me want to mute some people honestly. What makes it even more pathetic is that the same people who claim Nolan wasn't comic accurate don't realize how obvious they're making it to everybody else how little of Batman comics they've actually read haha. I'm convinced more than half of these people just can't stand how love Nolan's Batman movies are. And how influential too. Ugh, sorry, I just needed to vent haha.

I honestly don't care at this point, haha.

Let them engage in self-parody if they want to. People who constantly rip on Nolan want to appear smart and sophisticated or like they know cinema and/or the character best, but they actually demonstrate the opposite by not being able to appreciate what different approaches bring to the table.

Btw, I've got 0 issue if someone's new favorite is The Batman. It is that good where I can be like, "yup, totally get and respect that". But there's no need to be a d*** about it.

 

[Brother Jack]

It's the petty and predictable cycle of fandom. Same as it ever was. Some people can't seem to be able to appreciate something without denigrating what came before it. As though every director who's ever done their take on Batman are in this constant competition for who did it the "best". Now obviously there are some that are more successful that others, and ones that resonate with me more than others, but at the end of the day who really cares which one's on the top of your arbitrary ranking? Just let each one be its own thing. Nolan's Batman is the best version of Batman that Nolan could have made. Same with Reeves, same with Burton.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I honestly don't care at this point, haha.

Let them engage in self-parody if they want to. People who constantly rip on Nolan want to appear smart and sophisticated or like they know cinema and/or the character best, but they actually demonstrate the opposite by not being able to appreciate what different approaches bring to the table.

Exactly. Oh but they can appreciate Snyder's take though, which pretty much signals to me that they simply hate the respect this trilogy gathered. It's mind boggling why that's the case, but there really can't be any other reason.

 

[BatLobster]

It's the petty and predictable cycle of fandom. Same as it ever was. Some people can't seem to be able to appreciate something without denigrating what came before it. As though every director who's ever done their take on Batman are in this constant competition for who did it the "best". Now obviously there are some that are more successful that others, and ones that resonate with me more than others, but at the end of the day who really cares which one's on the top of your arbitrary ranking? Just let each one be its own thing. Nolan's Batman is the best version of Batman that Nolan could have made. Same with Reeves, same with Burton.

I'm really over the whole idea of ranking, to be perfectly honest. I know it's something we fans kind of enjoy doing for sport, but I think just seeing like every nerd-related channel I follow all post their... "RANKING BEST BATMAN ACTORS, RANKING BEST BATMAN MOVIES" within the span of the last couple of days I'm just burnt out on it already. Then you just have random people on Twitter deciding to share their ranking as if I care. It's just too many opinions flying around and it's mind-numbing after a while.

Give me a thoughtful video essay or an article exploring and comparing the different incarnations any day over yet another stupid clickbait ranking thing.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I'm really over the whole idea of ranking, to be perfectly honest. I know it's something we fans kind of enjoy doing for sport, but I think just seeing like every nerd-related channel I follow all post their... "RANKING BEST BATMAN ACTORS, RANKING BEST BATMAN MOVIES" within the span of the last couple of days I'm just burnt out on it already. Then you just have random people on Twitter deciding to share their ranking as if I care. It's just too many opinions flying around and it's mind-numbing after a while.

Give me a thoughtful video essay or an article exploring and comparing the different incarnations any day over yet another stupid clickbait ranking thing.

I honestly agree. While I have ranked them I kinda regret it because i feel like there's no real point. Like why must we compare?

 

[BatLobster]

I honestly agree. While I have ranked them I kinda regret it because i feel like there's no real point. Like why must we compare?

It has its place I guess. A few years back some friends and I decided to try and rank our top 20 superhero movies, which led me to rewatching a lot of my favorites. It was worth it in the sense that it was an excuse to revisit a bunch of films and see how they sat with me years later (I rediscovered my love of the Raimi Spider-Man films for instance).

But, other than TDK being #1 and the trilogy being in my top 5, I honestly don't even remember off the top of my head where I placed most of them at this point. It becomes arbitrary after a point, and I'm sure if I made the list today it may not look the same.

I think it's just seeing everyone doing it on Twitter that got old real fast. I mean I guess it's interesting and cool that almost no two fan lists look the same and everyone's got their favorites. It's harmless at the end of the day, but I also just wish fans and content creators encouraged more thoughtful discussions. Ranking is kinda low hanging fruit.

 

[Herofan]

Lots of Nolan bashing on twitter. Really making me want to mute some people honestly. What makes it even more pathetic is that the people who claim Nolan isn't comic accurate don't realize how obvious they're making it to everybody else how little of Batman comics they've actually read haha. Doubt they've read a single Dennis O'Neil/Neal Adams era title or they choose to just completely ignore all the long halloween and year one inspirations. I'm convinced more than half of these people just can't stand how love Nolan's Batman movies are. And how influential too. Ugh, sorry, I just needed to vent haha.

There was serious respect for TLH, Year One and, though I think not as well done, The Killing Joke, opinions of quality can vary but claiming there's no or minimal basis from and adaptation from the comics is ridiculous.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Posting this because it's still one of the coolest things I've ever seen. Carry on.

 

[BatLobster]

Posting this because it's still one of the coolest things I've ever seen. Carry on.

To follow that up, I will always love this little glare Bale gives here:

 

[Gothamsknight]

To follow that up, I will always love this little glare Bale gives here:

Glorious! I always felt like Bale had the presence of Tim Sales Batman in BB.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Been thinking about it more, and Christian Bale is definitely still my favorite Batman. I think I need to see more how Pattinson develops over the course of the trilogy before I can fully rank him, but he comes in at #2 for me.