BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 5

[Cats]

So uhh...I just cut out the whole Africa/Bullet subplot from the film and guess what? Nothing feels removed and it's only 1hr 59 mins long.

Then you would've missed Lex maneuvering to frame Superman, and KGBeast's first introduction in the film. You would also miss the fact that Lois is actually working on her own investigation, and she's not just there to be a damsel in distress.

 

[clarkkent]

Superman "died" so wouldn't Batman feel the threat was taken care of actually?

I'm OG Clark. Maybe you should do some name shopping

 

[Cats]

Superman "died" so wouldn't Batman feel the threat was taken care of actually?

There's also that huge symbol in the sand that obviously doesn't belong to Superman.

 

[Robin91939]

I think it was Robin91939 who had an exact quote. It goes something like this (sorry if I'm paraphrasing) "Bruce you gotta listen! Oh am I too soon? Yeah I'm too soon. You were right. You were right about everything. Lois is the key. You need to look for us."

It's very related to the current plot because Flash shows Batman a terror-filled future ruled by an evil Superman, and this compels him even more to take Supes down. I don't recall first names to be stated within that act with the Flash.

"BRUCE! LISTEN TO ME NOW. It's Lois. It's Lois Lane. She's the key. Am I too soon? Ahh! I'm too soon. You were right about him. You've always been right about him. Fear him. Find us, Bruce. You have to find us." - The Flash.

-R

 

[clarkkent]

He knows that something awful is coming.

They aren't going to give everything away at once.

He knew something awful was Superman in the vision, who is apparently killed off [till next movie ]. That doesn't make sense really then for creating the team based off of what he saw. He also doesn't have the allusions understood from the painting and Lex that the audience has benefit of seeing.

 

[Cats]

"BRUCE! LISTEN TO ME NOW. It's Lois. It's Lois Lane. She's the key. Am I too soon? Ahh! I'm too soon. You were right about him. You've always been right about him. Fear him. Find us, Bruce. You have to find us." - The Flash.

-R

I hit pretty close to home. I should be so proud. Thanks Robin.

 

[Clark-Kent]

I'm OG Clark. Maybe you should do some name shopping

You don't own the name, and plus I've got way more posts though

 

[Robin91939]

I hit pretty close to home. I should be so proud. Thanks Robin.

Yep. Just about spot on.

-R

 

[matt47]

Then you would've missed Lex maneuvering to frame Superman, and KGBeast's first introduction in the film. You would also miss the fact that Lois is actually working on her own investigation, and she's not just there to be a damsel in distress.

All Lex needed was the Senate to blow up and those letters to Bruce, the Africa scene didn't need to happen to further the plot. Who cared about the introduction to a side character like KGBeast? Now his introduction is Bruce tracking him. Yes but what was the point of Lois' investigation when in the end Lex just threw her off a building to get Superman to him and kidnap Martha?

What I'm saying is that I've taken it out and it doesn't feel like anythings missing. That's not good!

 

[Robin91939]

All Lex needed was the Senate to blow up and those letters to Bruce, the Africa scene didn't need to happen to further the plot. Who cared about the introduction to a side character like KGBeast? Now his introduction is Bruce tracking him. Yes but what was the point of Lois' investigation when in the end Lex just threw her off a building to get Superman to him and kidnap Martha?

What I'm saying is that I've taken it out and it doesn't feel like anythings missing. That's not good!

What do you mean when you say you "took it out".

Like of your mind? Or that you have a copy of the film that you are physically editing?

-R

 

[matt47]

What do you mean when you say you "took it out".

Like of your mind? Or that you have a copy of the film that you are physically editing?

-R

Latter.

 

[Tony Gunk]

the very fact that there's a ton of people around the internet asking themselves "what the hell was that and what just happened" with regards to the nightmare sequence tells you all you need to know about it's execution.

 

[Cats]

All Lex needed was the Senate to blow up and those letters to Bruce

Having the senate blow up with Superman in it alone wouldn't actually do a lot to push him over the edge, especially since it's clear that Superman was not responsible. It was because the senate bombing came right after being framed, and watching people turn against him in anger. So Lex did this rather methodically. Step one, remove Superman's fame and introduce suspicion. Step two, attack his self-esteem while he's not yet recovered from step one. Step three (if he comes back, which he did), turn mankind's greatest fighter against him. Step four (if he lives through this, which he did), unleash the kryptonian abomination on him to destroy him once and for all.

 

[Tony Gunk]

Did anyone know Costner was in this film? I genuinely had no clue so that was actually a really nice surprise, although I'm not too sure about the scene itself

 

[Sleiek]

I didn't. That was a cool scene.

 

[Cats]

the very fact that there's a ton of people around the internet asking themselves "what the hell was that and what just happened" with regards to the nightmare sequence tells you all you need to know about it's execution.

To some extent, I'm pretty sure that was what Snyder was gunning for. In his interview before the launch, he said there was a sequence within the film that would be mysterious and intentionally open ended. It was for the audience to speculate about, which we are. If everyone had all the answers, then Snyder would've failed in his plan for this particular portion.

 

[Clark-Kent]

Did anyone know Costner was in this film? I genuinely had no clue so that was actually a really nice surprise, although I'm not too sure about the scene itself

I wondered if in that scene in the snow if that was alluding to building the FOS as well.

 

[Rapunzel]

He knew something awful was Superman in the vision, who is apparently killed off [till next movie ]. That doesn't make sense really then for creating the team based off of what he saw. He also doesn't have the allusions understood from the painting and Lex that the audience has benefit of seeing.

This is my problem with the knightmare. I think the fact Flash's warning is separate from the knightmare is a sign the two might be unrelated. Flash does say "it's too soon" which doesn't jive with Supes turning evil-- it's not too soon for that warning.

Plus, Flash and Lex both mention "him" in their warnings, and it would be silly if they were two different "him"s. Lex is certainly not referring to Supes, so if he and flash are warning about the same person, that person cannot be Superman.

But the injustice style stuff makes it seem that way. Horribly edited.

 

[The Guard]

He knew something awful was Superman in the vision, who is apparently killed off [till next movie ]. That doesn't make sense really then for creating the team based off of what he saw. He also doesn't have the allusions understood from the painting and Lex that the audience has benefit of seeing.

So? The issue is not whether Brude knows what we know. It's that he know there's a threat coming. There are too stages to that. One is Superman taking over which is his fear. The other is the real threat that he realizes they need to be ready for.

 

[Steelsheen]

I think it was Robin91939 who had an exact quote. It goes something like this (sorry if I'm paraphrasing) "Bruce you gotta listen! Oh am I too soon? Yeah I'm too soon. You were right. You were right about everything. Lois is the key. You need to look for us."

It's very related to the current plot because Flash shows Batman a terror-filled future ruled by an evil Superman, and this compels him even more to take Supes down. I don't recall first names to be stated within that act with the Flash.

ohhhh gotcha thanks!

initially i thought Flash was giving some clues or what not to Bruce in a dream and didnt really understand what it was for other than it had something to do with Lois. i figured Supes connected Bruce Wayne- Batman at the Lex party, but Bats with Supes - Clark Kent? i thought it had something to do with him investigating Lois further.

Spoiler

He's RIGHT.

In a real world, you cannot justify the existence of the Justice League if Superman exists.

If Superman exists, yeah, he's the heavy hitter. He's the one in charge and there isn't really a reason for the League because Superman can stop any threat on his own. A League of heroes, comprised of less powerful heroes, is just superfluous.

In Man Of Steel, he stopped what is basically an army of Supermen when he takes down a group of Kryptonians. He does this without the help of other heroes and on his own.

If you don't show that Superman is vulnerable, that he can be beaten or even killed -- what real threat is there?

You have to introduce a threat that takes more than Superman to bring down -- and that's what Doomsday was. Even if you argue that it could have been Wonder Woman to drive the spear in, and that Superman would have been able to live -- you NEED Superman to die. You need to show that he can be in real peril.

Otherwise, if someone like Darkseid comes along, it would just be: Oh, give Superman enough time. He might get beat up, but he'll win for sure. He can't be killed. It's a foregone conclusion that he'll win eventually.

There would be no stakes.

Killing Superman gives the coming battle with Darkseid stakes. He can die. He can lose. And if we see that Superman can ultimately return, we will at least see that he can be taken out of the equation long enough for the threat to destroy the world and kill the more vulnerable Justice League members.

This was the right decision.

-R

good stuff R still a little pissed that Supes died in his sequel-ish movie. yeah yeah shuda seen it coming with Doomsday and stuff but STILL. its a shocker. and i felt that. my fellow movie patrons being shocked and (momentarily) enraged didnt help either i suppose good points on it being used as a narrative though. Geeks know that Superman has his limits but most moviegoers automatically assume that Supes is well nigh unbeatable, so seeing him dead and lain into the ground is effective.

 

[The Guard]

the very fact that there's a ton of people around the internet asking themselves "what the hell was that and what just happened" with regards to the nightmare sequence tells you all you need to know about it's execution.

Mission accomplished. That's what filmmakers wanted.

Apparently people around here suddenly have an issue with mystery.

 

[Tony Gunk]

To some extent, I'm pretty sure that was what Snyder was gunning for. In his interview before the launch, he said there was a sequence within the film that would be mysterious and intentionally open ended. It was for the audience to speculate about, which we are. If everyone had all the answers, then Snyder would've failed in his plan for this particular portion.

these are the sorts of things that will leave the general audience scratching their heads. They didn't even make it obvious that it was The Flash! Show the logo on him, show some red or something.

Also not being able to understand anything but "Lois is the key, you were right about him" was a misfire. Added to that, if the suggestion is that if Lois died Superman would turn on everyone, then that's another wonderful misrepresentation of the character of Kal-El.

 

[matt47]

Having the senate blow up with Superman in it alone wouldn't actually do a lot to push him over the edge, especially since it's clear that Superman was not responsible. It was because the senate bombing came right after being framed, and watching people turn against him in anger. So Lex did this rather methodically. Step one, remove Superman's fame and introduce suspicion. Step two, attack his self-esteem while he's not yet recovered from step one. Step three (if he comes back, which he did), turn mankind's greatest fighter against him. Step four (if he lives through this, which he did), unleash the kryptonian abomination on him to destroy him once and for all.

I still think they should have had the film happen pretty close to the Black Zero event instead of two years later. I mean, no character that was in Man of Steel has really grown so much to warrant a two year gap. Plus this way you wouldn't need Lex to get people to be afraid of Supes, they would still be in shock of the Black Zero attack.

 

[The Guard]

They WANT general audiences scratching their heads. Just as Marvel did over "What's the hammer in the desert?" and "what's that cube"

 

[Andreth]

All Lex needed was the Senate to blow up and those letters to Bruce, the Africa scene didn't need to happen to further the plot. Who cared about the introduction to a side character like KGBeast? Now his introduction is Bruce tracking him. Yes but what was the point of Lois' investigation when in the end Lex just threw her off a building to get Superman to him and kidnap Martha?

What I'm saying is that I've taken it out and it doesn't feel like anythings missing. That's not good!

She tells him he had been exposed. The africa/bullet story allows her to trace Lex back to everything, exposes his plan, redeems superman. The world started to turn on him with the Africa incident. Of course it's vitally important.