Supergirl Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

[Vaibow]

I love L&C as much as anyone here if not more, so it pains me to have to say it, but Dean Cain ain’t built for a cape anymore, lads. In more ways than one.

How about if he goes to boot camp to slim up and plays reporter Clark Kent with Lois? After all that was the highlight... maybe have a scene (as a throw back to a similar episode) where Clark is about to shirt rip but the news of two supermen on the scene stops him...

This is going in circles since I said they could've gotten Tim Daly instead in response to them getting Brandon Routh.

I just hope it’s done respectfully and not just as hype

 

[Vaibow]

Imagine this

Its nice that Routh can have some sort of closure to his Superman and that he has a chance to play the role how he wanted.

 

[Sithborg]

I love L&C as much as anyone here if not more, so it pains me to have to say it, but Dean Cain ain’t built for a cape anymore, lads. In more ways than one.

Time to Shatner up, then...

Though, for other reasons, it is probably a bit better that he stays away, as much as I want a resolution to his storyline.

 

[Lone]

I hope Routh’s costume has the red trunks. I’ve always felt like he deserved another shot as Superman and I am glad he’s getting it without any WB studio interference.

 

[Kelly]

Not really into the trunks, but honestly, doesn't really matter to me.......just never was thrilled about them.

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

 

[vantheman77]

Imagine a Superman TV series with Superman raising a child.

 

[Herolee10]

Imagine a Superman TV series with Superman raising a child.

 

[Dr.]

Tulloch as Lois Lane wasn’t bad… But she didn’t knock either of my socks off. I was socked the whole time.

 

[flickchick85]

I don't really care for her in the role either, but I'm glad Lois will be involved, nonetheless.

 

[vantheman77]

It will. WB isn't doing any Superman movies.

 

[Herolee10]

It will. WB isn't doing any Superman movies.

I seem to recall that the producers for "Arrow" originally wanted to use Ted Kord's (Blue Beetle) character for Arrow originally and were forced to use Ray Palmer instead because the former was off limits, courtesy of the film division. They were planning on doing something with Blue Beetle back then but nothing has happened since.

Plus, as long as Supergirl has a show, the CW aren't going to invest money in making a Superman show. And to be honest, I would not want the producers affiliated with the Arrowverse to do a superman show since they would do more harm than good.

 

[flickchick85]

Like it or not herolee, the Arrowverse people are the only ones who've delivered a likable, well-received live-action Superman in the last decade or two. Regardless of him playing second fiddle to the lead of the show he's been guesting on (as it should be, imo), audiences and critics actually liked him, and continue to look forward to his appearances. And if your problem is their history of propping up their lead heroes at the expense of supporting heroes (which is what Supes has been so far), then if he WERE one of their leads, it's HIM they'd be propping up.

Would I rather he get the HBO treatment with higher production values and a better creative team? Of course. I'd kill for that. But the Arrowverse people are hardly the worst case scenario for the character, imo. We could do worse, and frankly, very recently did - on the big screen.

But I agree with you it ain't happening, so this is all moot anyway.

 

[Herolee10]

Like it or not herolee, the Arrowverse people are the only ones who've delivered a likable, well-received live-action Superman in the last decade or two. Regardless of him playing second fiddle to the lead of the show he's been guesting on (as it should be, imo), audiences and critics actually liked him, and continue to look forward to his appearances. And if your problem is their history of propping up their lead heroes at the expense of supporting heroes (which is what Supes has been so far), then if he WERE one of their leads, it's HIM they'd be propping up.

Would I rather he get the HBO treatment with higher production values and a better creative team? Of course. I'd kill for that. But the Arrowverse people are hardly the worst case scenario for the character, imo. We could do worse, and frankly, very recently did - on the big screen.

But I agree with you it ain't happening, so this is all moot anyway.

I was mainly referring to the Flash as one of the reasons why I didn't want the Arrowverse writers to be the folks in charge of doing a full on Superman show.

I don't need to see Lois going "You're not Superman Clark. WE ARE". Plus, I can definitely think of a few writers who are capable of writing well written, captivating, and strong women without having to resort to things like #feminism or forcing characters into roles that they don't belong in so that they remain relevant. And don't get me started on how terrible they've been at writing their characters to be consistent with their growth and behavior throughout a given season, let alone the plot lines that they've established as well.

Some of the biggest reasons why Tyler's Superman has been so well received is because of the fact that the Supergirl writers don't have to worry about writing a long drawn out arc for him as the star of his own series. Plus, his behavior and demeanor is mainly modeled after Christopher Reeve's portrayal and the timing of his introduction also helped since fans were still reeling from the more serious take portrayed by Henry on the big screen. And honestly, if Superman or any larger than life character has to be brought in so that the writers can use them as a stepping stone to make their lead protagonist look great, then that just shows on how lacking their writing skills are.

If Superman were to ever be lucky enough in getting in his own show, I'd want the same caliber of writers like Daredevil had during his Netflix series run.

 

[flickchick85]

Lord, it's so sad how people took a lovely statement of solidarity and turned it into "ew, feminism!" It's like that time when those extras stood up and stole Spartacus' movie from him, the bastards!

And I see more George Reeves and Dean Cain in Tyler's performance than Chris Reeve, and just generally the Supes I know from the comics, but to each their own.

We'd all rather have the best creative teams for our favorite characters, that's a given. And yeah, I'd take the DD people over this crew in a heartbeat too, but I'm just saying, we could do, and have done, far worse. This crew does NOT damage brands the way the cinematic creative team have done recently. More people care about Barry Allen, Supergirl and Green Arrow as characters than ever before. That's a direct result of them being DC CW leads.

 

[Herolee10]

Lord, it's so sad how people took a lovely statement of solidarity and turned it into "ew, feminism!" It's like that time when those extras stood up and stole Spartacus' movie from him, the bastards!

And I see more George Reeves and Dean Cain in Tyler's performance than Chris Reeve, and just generally the Supes I know from the comics, but to each their own.

We'd all rather have the best creative teams for our favorite characters, that's a given. And yeah, I'd take the DD people over this crew in a heartbeat too, but I'm just saying, we could do, and have done, far worse. This crew does NOT damage brands the way the cinematic creative team have done recently. More people care about Barry Allen, Supergirl and Green Arrow as characters than ever before. That's a direct result of them being DC CW leads.

There's a wise old saying/belief that it's better to show and not tell. And would it make sense for Steve Trevor to tell Diana that she isn't Wonder Woman only and they both are if they were married as well? Should a person automatically be entitled to call the fruits of their spouses's labor their own simply because of their marriage? Iris did nothing to deserve being called a Flash or the leader of team Flash in a realistic and natural manner at that point of the series.

Well now that you mention George and Dean, I do see what you mean. Tyler's Superman does seem to embody the best of them. Also, we could only tell on how good their writing skills would be IF they were given the actual challenge of making him go through a legitimate emotional arc that took over the course of several episodes. Seeing as how he isn't the star of this or any other show, we don't know if they'll ever get that chance. The writers pretty much took the cue of doing everything opposite of what people didn't like with MOS/BvS. But once they don't have a template to draw from and have to rely on their own imagination, then how well will they do?

Honestly, I feel like these shows have only lasted as long as they have now because of their respective leads. If the likes of Stephen, Grant, and Melissa didn't have the skills necessary to carry their shows with the level of charisma and charm that they all have then there's no way that their shows would be as popular as they are today imho.

 

[flickchick85]

No one was saying Iris was literally the Flash. That's a ridiculous argument. She was saying they're in this together, which they are. "We are Wonder Woman" doesn't exactly have the same ring to it since "Woman" is in the title, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to Trevor saying something to that effect when Diana's feeling down or lost. And Iris is basically the Team Mom. Nothing wrong with that. Wish they'd focus more on her journalism, personally, but I'm betting they would if she'd been the lead. Like they have with Kara on this show. And maybe it's worth pointing out here that the shows have different creative teams. As would any hypothetical Superman show. Berlanti's a producer, not a showrunner. Each of these shows has different writers/showrunners.

But we've seen what THIS team does with a Super who's the lead, and I think Kara's had solid arcs and development throughout her show. Yes, the romance bit was a bad blip, but they got past it, and gave Melissa her best season yet last season. Their handling of her past trauma has been great (I just wish they'd do it more often), as has their portrayal of her more Kryptonian side/attributes. Looking at who she was in the pilot vs. where she is now, Kara has shown A LOT of positive growth as a character, imo. I see no reason to doubt Superman would have similar solid arcs and growth if they ever gave him a show.

 

[Herolee10]

No one was saying Iris was literally the Flash. That's a ridiculous argument. She was saying they're in this together, which they are. "We are Wonder Woman" doesn't exactly have the same ring to it since "Woman" is in the title, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to Trevor saying something to that effect when Diana's feeling down or lost. And Iris is basically the Team Mom. Nothing wrong with that. Wish they'd focus more on her journalism, personally, but I'm betting they would if she'd been the lead. Like they have with Kara on this show. And maybe it's worth pointing out here that the shows have different creative teams. As would any hypothetical Superman show. Berlanti's a producer, not a showrunner. Each of these shows has different writers/showrunners.

But we've seen what THIS team does with a Super who's the lead, and I think Kara's had solid arcs and development throughout her show. Yes, the romance bit was a bad blip, but they got past it, and gave Melissa her best season yet last season. Their handling of her past trauma has been great (I just wish they'd do it more often), as has their portrayal of her more Kryptonian side/attributes. Looking at who she was in the pilot vs. where she is now, Kara has shown A LOT of positive growth as a character, imo. I see no reason to doubt Superman would have similar solid arcs and growth if they ever gave him a show.

- If the intent behind Iris's "We are the Flash" line was to establish on how she and Barry are a team and that they need to lead on each other then the execution was just poor imho, which again is one of the reasons why I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving Superman's TV Series in the hands of writers like that. "We are a Team" or "We are Team Flash" would have been just as effective and not as controversial, especially with the "You're not the Flash, Barry" line added in the beginning. In any case, I think it'd be best to agree to disagree on this since I'm sure someone is getting ready to tell me that this isn't the right thread for it (which they'd be right to say so of course).

- While Superman and Supergirl, I feel like their background and personalities are still very different. Like you've mentioned before, Kara is one who was old enough to actually experience the pain of losing her home and had to learn to readjust to her surroundings on Earth for many years. Clark never had that problem when growing up.

And since we're going with Tyler's Superman, could they handle telling a story where its lead is at the prime of his career and life? If anything, isn't it also bit late to also make Tyler's Superman relevant within Earth 38 now that Kara has officially inherited his mantle as Earth's greatest champion? Didn't he and Lois pretty much insinuate that Earth doesn't need Superman anymore now that it has Kara? It'd be kind of hard to draw in a lot of viewers for a character, regardless if he's Superman, to lead his own series if he's already admitted that he's no longer needed.

 

[flickchick85]

- While Superman and Supergirl, I feel like their background and personalities are still very different. Like you've mentioned before, Kara is one who was old enough to actually experience the pain of losing her home and had to learn to readjust to her surroundings on Earth for many years. Clark never had that problem when growing up.

No argument there - Superman and Supergirl are very different characters, which is why any hypothetical Superman series wouldn't feel like a retread of Supergirl.

And since we're going with Tyler's Superman, could they handle telling a story where its lead is at the prime of his career and life? If anything, isn't it also bit late to also make Tyler's Superman relevant within Earth 38 now that Kara has officially inherited his mantle as Earth's greatest champion? Didn't he and Lois pretty much insinuate that Earth doesn't need Superman anymore now that it has Kara? It'd be kind of hard to draw in a lot of viewers for a character, regardless if he's Superman, to lead his own series if he's already admitted that he's no longer needed.

The timeline would indeed be the tricky part. In my mind, they have two options - make a prequel series (which would be my choice), set several years before Kara became Supergirl (maybe after she came to Earth, though, so we could get some nice scenes of Clark's early relationship with Young Kara), OR take inspiration from Superman Rebirth, with a Superman who thought he was done and had settled down to raise a family, before some sort of call-to-action that tells him he's still needed after all. But like I said, I agree with you it ain't happening, mainly because I think the movie division - while they don't know what to do with him themselves - also don't want to let go of him completely.

 

[Herolee10]

No argument there - Superman and Supergirl are very different characters, which is why any hypothetical Superman series wouldn't feel like a retread of Supergirl.


The timeline would indeed be the tricky part. In my mind, they have two options - make a prequel series (which would be my choice), set well before Kara became Supergirl, OR take inspiration from Superman Rebirth, with a Superman who thought he was done and had settled down to raise a family, before some sort of call-to-action that tells him he's still needed after all. But like I said, I agree with you it ain't happening, but that's mainly because I think the movie division - while they don't know what to do with him themselves - also don't want to let go of him completely.

Pretty much the perfect way in describing some of my friends relationships back in College.lol

Of course, we don't even know if he'll survive this year's Crisis. Though, at least we'll probably get a chance to see the much teased about encounter between him and Reverse Flash that the latter had alluded to back in the Earth-X crossover.

Whether Tyler's Superman ends up killing killed or not, I hope that he at least gets one solo victory under his belt when going up against an worthwhile adversary. At the moment, he's lost against every major character that we've seen him fight on his own (Metallo, Kara, Amazo, & Doctor Destiny-Superman)

 

[flickchick85]

Aaaaaand we're back to bragging rights again, which is my cue to check out of this convo. But agreed on the college relationships.

 

[Herolee10]

Aaaaaand we're back to bragging rights again, which is my cue to check out of this convo. But agreed on the college relationships.

Haha, well to be brief and fair, i dont think it counts as wanting bragging rights to see your favorite character pick up a win at least once and not always be the one getting beaten. It would not hurt anyone for Superman to beat someone and surprisngly, Superman is known for beating hos opponents from time to time.

 

[flickchick85]

That is like, the definition of bragging rights, lol. We know Superman has won battles. They've told us about them. They didn't SHOW them because, *all together now*: it's not his show. He has 15 years of victories under his belt. Those are part of HIS story, which is not the story they're telling now. And for the record, even as a supporting player, we saw him wipe the floor with several Daxamite warships and one poor loyal Daxamite who didn't even cause Supes to break a sweat. But the best way to ensure you see Tyler's Superman win more battles on his own is to give him his own show, plain and simple.

 

[Herolee10]

That is like, the definition of bragging rights, lol. We know Superman has won battles. They've told us about them. They didn't SHOW them because, *all together now*: it's not his show. He has 15 years of victories under his belt. Those are part of HIS story, which is not the story they're telling now. And for the record, even as a supporting player, we saw him wipe the floor with several Daxamite warships and one poor loyal Daxamite who didn't even cause Supes to break a sweat. But the best way to ensure you see Tyler's Superman win more battles on his own is to give him his own show, plain and simple.

To be fair, the only super villains that he's encountered and fought in this show's canon are Lex, Zod, and Maxima. I was actually surprised to read that Kara has come across more super villains in her 4-5 years career than Superman has in the 20 + years that he was active. And I wasn't asking that they take precious time out of Kara's already busy series to show Superman's past victories. Seeing as how he's a "special guest star" and is limited to a certain amount of appearances during the duration of this show, I don't think it's wrong to see him have a ONE moment against a worthwhile opponent on-screen. I mean "Smallville" gave their Kara (and others) several moments and Clark Kent was supposed to be the main lead.

Also, I was talking about him having his own moment, however brief, during the crossover which I think is fair game for many characters to share in the spotlight that they normally wouldn't get elsewhere. I just don't see what's so terrible about having a desire like this.

 

[flickchick85]

*sigh* this is exactly the conversation I wanted to avoid, because it just goes in circles. They haven’t listed all the villains he’s fought, and frankly it’s asinine to assume he’s fought fewer than Kara in 15 years just because they haven’t listed them all. Talk about backwards logic.

And by the way, you left off Mongul, Toyman and Lobo, who’ve been alluded to as characters he’s fought (and obviously defeated) as well, along with some unnamed 5th dimensional being, not that it matters.

Again, we just need to agree to disagree on this, as it never goes anywhere. And in my mind it’s an irrelevant argument to begin with. He has a long and successful history full of triumphs that’s been alluded to as backstory, which is all that’s needed for THIS show. Anything else is unnecessary but welcome.