The Dark Knight Rises Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

[The Joker]

It's indirectly, but the part where Gordon says "Letting the bad guy get ahead" has to be a jab at The Joker.

No doubt. But if Nolan had allowed them to mention him directly there would be a lot more elaboration on the details of why it was necessary to cover up what Dent did.

That scene where Blake is reciting the events of the night Dent died still sounds off without Joker's name being mentioned.

 

[RAINMAKER]

Yeah, I really loved Bane's voice, especially in the scene when he kills Daggett:

And this gives you power over me?

Your money and infrastructure have been important...till now.

I agree. There were many great lines from Bane and his performance was underrated.

 

[JackWhite]

No doubt. But if Nolan had allowed them to mention him directly there would be a lot more elaboration on the details of why it was necessary to cover up what Dent did.

That scene where Blake is reciting the events of the night Dent died still sounds off without Joker's name being mentioned.

I agree, going through the checklist of what Batman accomplished during that night and not mentioning the Joker was pretty odd. I understand Nolan's decision, but come on, just mention the Joker once during that scene and then have the other in direct reference and that's all we would have needed.

 

[RAINMAKER]

I agree, going through the checklist of what Batman accomplished during that night and not mentioning the Joker was pretty odd. I understand Nolan's decision, but come on, just mention the Joker once during that scene and then have the other in direct reference and that's all we would have needed.

I think they made a mistake in not mentioning the Joker throughout the film. Not having his name mentioned once, felt like he never existed. In fact, the Joker took out the one guy (Dent) who was going to be the savior of Gotham City. It would've also been fun to hear Bane rub it in Bruce's face mentioning all the trouble he's gone through only to have the Joker make Gotham's white knight corrupt. But now Bruce is lying on a bed with a broken back.

 

[JackWhite]

I think they made a mistake in not mentioning the Joker throughout the film. Not having his name mentioned once, felt like he never existed. In fact, the Joker took out the one guy (Dent) who was going to be the savior of Gotham City. It would've also been fun to hear Bane rub it in Bruce's face mentioning all the trouble his gone through only to have the Joker make Gotham's white knight corrupt. But now Bruce is lying on a bed with a broken back.

Hey, that could have been really good. It would go well with Bane mentioning Bruce truly understanding the depths of his failure. Bane could even borrow a line from Hugo Strange from AC, telling Bruce that his own crusade for justice is what breeds these animals.

 

[Victarion]

I saw a debate a few pages back in this thread about how influential Nolan's work will be. In the previews and spots for Iron-Man 3, I am seeing echoes of Bane and Joker in the Mandarin.

 

[RAINMAKER]

I saw a debate a few pages back in this thread about how influential Nolan's work will be. In the previews and spots for Iron-Man 3, I am seeing echoes of Bane and Joker in the Mandarin.

He looks and acts more like Ra's Al Ghul. But I agree, Nolan has changed the game.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I saw a debate a few pages back in this thread about how influential Nolan's work will be. In the previews and spots for Iron-Man 3, I am seeing echoes of Bane and Joker in the Mandarin.

the difference being that The Mandarin's voice is merely entertaining and unique, Bane and Joker's voices are entertaining and unique, but also menacing and affecting. Imo of course. I loved Iron Man 1, but this new one makes me feel nothing.

But yes, TDKT is influential. See Skyfall for examples of this.

 

[The Joker]

But yes, TDK is influential. See Skyfall for examples of this.

Sam Mendes was very open about TDK's influence on it: http://collider.com/sam-mendes-skyfall-the-dark-knight/204523/

 

[RAINMAKER]

Hey, that could have been really good. It would go well with Bane mentioning Bruce truly understanding the depths of his failure. Bane could even borrow a line from Hugo Strange from AC, telling Bruce that his own crusade for justice is what breeds these animals.

I agree. And that game, was beyond awesome!

 

[Victarion]

Sam Mendes was very open about TDK's influence on it: http://collider.com/sam-mendes-skyfall-the-dark-knight/204523/

Silva could easily have been the Joker's pupil. My reference to the Mandarin was his ex-military background being similar to Bane's mercenary background, while televising his moves and the penchant for explosions reminds me of Joker. Ditto for his monologue on heroes. Reminds me of Joker's monologue to Dent in the hospital.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Don't face palm my post please, there's nothing in it that's outrageous. There was criticism during it's theatrical run too. Or are you just forgetting all those screenings with the criticisms. Where do you think the WB execs got the heads up from in the beginning? That they just made it up. As far back as December we'd see "man great action sequence those stunts . . . but man, Bane's voice." That wasn't executives, those were regular people like you and I. It just wasn't the prologue either, it carried to it's release, from twitter to fans to reviewers. Alot of people did have problems myself included. I'm not dabbling in majorities like you are, Or even percentages. I'm saying all over the place their were criticisms about it. Some on these very boards.


Look we get that it wasn't a problem for you or your cousins or whatever but that doesn't mean it's a minority. We can't even measure it so it's silly. Point is a good bit of people had a problem with it and you're downplaying it because you don't agree. Just like other criticisms are "nitpicks" for you. Just please, stop with majorities and minorities and the implications that only a small amount of viewers had problems that we're discussing.

Also that bit of "just use the subtitles" is outrageous. What were people supposed to do during it's theatrical run?

Milost, I will "facepalm" your reply when you're saying I shouldn't mention that the majority of audiences had no problem with Bane's voice while you can say that people did have problems also in the same thread where you say it's all opinion. If it's all opinion, then I believe I'd have as much right to disregard what you say about the majority having a problem with Bane's voice.

And it was massively because of the execs that Nolan changed Bane's voice, but also critics as well...not just "regular people" like you or I. As even the critics got a chance first to hear Bane's new voice.

http://www.blastr.com/2012/04/did-christopher-nolan-fix.php

And my cousins? Dude, give me some respect and read my posts...at least I read yours.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I agree, going through the checklist of what Batman accomplished during that night and not mentioning the Joker was pretty odd. I understand Nolan's decision, but come on, just mention the Joker once during that scene and then have the other in direct reference and that's all we would have needed.

Was it really odd though? If Batman and Gordon agreed to make Bats look like a criminal, why would it be known that Batman took down a madman while doing all of those deeds he supposedly did such as kill those five or whatever people, kidnap Gordon's family, kill Dent, take down those SWAT teams(okay, he actually did do that, lol), but mentioning him defeating Joker would seem odd in that list of the "bad things" Batman did eight years prior. I respect Nolan's decision not to mention Joker at all, but in the case of Blake mentioning all the events eight years ago, it does make sense as to why Joker's name isn't mentioned.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I saw a debate a few pages back in this thread about how influential Nolan's work will be. In the previews and spots for Iron-Man 3, I am seeing echoes of Bane and Joker in the Mandarin.

He looks and acts more like Ra's Al Ghul. But I agree, Nolan has changed the game.

You both are correct. The Mandarin really feels like Shane Black tried to mesh all three of Ra's al Ghul, Joker and Bane from Nolan's trilogy into one persona for Kingsley's Mandarin. The way he speaks just screams of the little tendencies in all those three villains from TDK trilogy. It's just odd, but definitely show how Nolan changed the genre with even the villains now from either such iconic and memorable dialogue or plans that represent reality and how certain kinds of terror effects the real world.

the difference being that The Mandarin's voice is merely entertaining and unique, Bane and Joker's voices are entertaining and unique, but also menacing and affecting. Imo of course. I loved Iron Man 1, but this new one makes me feel nothing.

Yah, I can honestly say I have plenty of worries over Iron Man 3 as well. It could continue the trend of stomping the "curse" of CBMs as TDKR did, imo, or it could become just like Spider-Man 3. It's hard to tell as we've seen how the MCU treats its sequels with Iron Man 2 and now IM3 even has a different director, and we know what happens with that 100% of the time with CBMs as well.

 

[BatLobster]

I just like thinking Joker is like kinda like the boogie man for Gotham, nobody really wants to mention his name because of all the horrific memories it brings up.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

nobody mentioned Ra's in TDK either.

 

[Anno_Domini]

It's just that thing that bugs me a bit. Nolan just brushes off villains from beforehand, something I respect Raimi about as he even had references of Doc Ock in S-M 3.

 

[BatLobster]

There was a Doc Ock reference in SM3? What was that again?

 

[Anno_Domini]

 

[cloverfan98]

I agree, going through the checklist of what Batman accomplished during that night and not mentioning the Joker was pretty odd. I understand Nolan's decision, but come on, just mention the Joker once during that scene and then have the other in direct reference and that's all we would have needed.

Heath was amazing as the Joker, but I hate this idea that no one else can ever play the Joker as well so lets not ever include him in a film again is lame. By trying to avoid the elephant in the room Nolan ended up crashing into the room in an 18 wheeler.

 

[milost]

Milost, I will "facepalm" your reply when you're saying I shouldn't mention that the majority of audiences had no problem with Bane's voice while you can say that people did have problems also in the same thread where you say it's all opinion. If it's all opinion, then I believe I'd have as much right to disregard what you say about the majority having a problem with Bane's voice.

And it was massively because of the execs that Nolan changed Bane's voice, but also critics as well...not just "regular people" like you or I. As even the critics got a chance first to hear Bane's new voice.

http://www.blastr.com/2012/04/did-christopher-nolan-fix.php

And my cousins? Dude, give me some respect and read my posts...at least I read yours.

See, I don't think you realize how you're acting. I myself am not throwing out baseless claims like majorities and minorities, that's all you. I've simply stated that a good amount of audiences had problems with the voice mix from day 1 on. And that's all true (unless you were living under a rock and blocking out the criticism).


You continue to downplay it when a simple google search or a search in this very thread from December 2011 and July 2012 proofed otherwise. You can't just say "well the majority didn't have a problem" and imply that those that have a problem have arguments that are insignificant. You seem to be doing this with most criticisms and it's not really fair.

I feel differently from you, obviously but you don't see me saying "only a small minority feel the way you do". It's simply not the case.

 

[milost]

nobody mentioned Ra's in TDK either.

Except Ra's never made himself known to Gotham with elaborate threats via broadcasting to millions of people in the city. Everyone in Gotham knew who the Joker was, he was in public several times.

There is no reason not to mention him in the story other than Nolan's insistence on not mentioning him and pretending that he doesn't exist. As far as the "dark knight trilogy's" world is concerned, they lack of mention or appearance of Joker is glaring. There is no plausible reason other than the director not wanting to include him for his own personal reasons.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

well I for one never felt that his name/presence was missing from TDKR.

Just like I don't think I would expect Bane to come up in a future nolanverse movie.

 

[BatLobster]

There is no reason not to mention him in the story other than Nolan's insistence on not mentioning him and pretending that he doesn't exist. As far as the "dark knight trilogy's" world is concerned, they lack of mention or appearance of Joker is glaring. There is no plausible reason other than the director not wanting to include him for his own personal reasons.

Except the fact that nearly a decade has passed and he's old news in story terms. There was no pretending he doesn't exist. His actions continued to echo and reverberate through TDKR. They just chose not to mention him in an on the nose way.

Kinda similar to Bruce's "criminals aren't complicated line" in TDK. It's subtle, but it keeps the Ra's thread alive.

 

[DACrowe]

Also, Nolan clearly called back Ra's in TDKR. Too much for some viewers. He also called back Scarecrow and Two-Face. Yet, he did not really call Ra's back by name in TDK.

Only if they directly effect the story will he work them in. He intentionally crafted a story for the third where the oker would not need direct mentioning.