The Dark Knight Rises Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

[RAINMAKER]

Going by Batman Begins, we saw a League of Shadows that ran things by their own rules, so it's safer to believe that Ra's wasn't part of the LoS when he was working with the warlord.

I believe Ra's found the LOS after he was exiled by the warlord. In fact, this is probably what he meant when he told Bruce he was "lost".

 

[Shikamaru]

Thought it would be fun to share this fan-made poster....

Admit it. Whether or not you like the ending, this made you chuckle t:.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Yes, we know he wasn't always based in the mountains. That was obvious based on the story told in TDKR. The LOS are globe trotters. London, Rome, Gotham, and god knows where else they set up camp and attack.

But say Ra's was in the mountains years later. Are you now saying that when little Talia escaped from the pit, she made her way from the pit to that snowy mountain high Himalayas base by herself lol?

Lol...I'm not saying Ra's was in the mountains when Talia found him, only bringing up the mountains bit when saying how Ra's wasn't part of the LoS when he had a wife.

Yes, it's totally different. Those kids have actual hope and every possibility to achieve greatness when they grow up.

And you don't think Talia's mother is trying to give Talia some hope when Bane said everyone hopes to climb out of the Pit? Climbing out of the Pit, finding her father...that's not the same as having the hope of achieving a goal of being the POTUS? Please...lol.

I'm not joking, I'm serious. The logic of those examples applies to what you're saying.

Actually, that "logic" of yours is just poking fun at my statements just because you want someone to so badly believe your idea of there being children spies for some reason in Nolan's universe and you wish so badly that Ra's had the idea that this girl was a spy for some damn odd reason, lol.

Then you credit him with less intelligence than I do. This is a man who uses dual identities because he doesn't trust anyone, not even his best student, Bruce.

Keeping his identity safe until Bruce would join the LoS is far different than not believing someone who said she was his daughter and had a story that one would have to believe regarding the Pit.

I believe Ra's found the LOS after he was exiled by the warlord. In fact, this is probably what he meant when he told Bruce he was "lost".

Indeed.

 

[The Joker]

Lol...I'm not saying Ra's was in the mountains when Talia found him, only bringing up the mountains bit when saying how Ra's wasn't part of the LoS when he had a wife.

Very good. It doesn't prove anything though.

And you don't think Talia's mother is trying to give Talia some hope when Bane said everyone hopes to climb out of the Pit? Climbing out of the Pit, finding her father...that's not the same as having the hope of achieving a goal of being the POTUS? Please...lol.

No, I don't think she was giving a little kid the hope of climbing out of the pit and finding her father when plethora's of GROWN MEN couldn't even manage it lol.

Actually, that "logic" of yours is just poking fun at my statements just because you want someone to so badly believe your idea of there being children spies for some reason in Nolan's universe and you wish so badly that Ra's had the idea that this girl was a spy for some damn odd reason, lol.

Your statement was so laughable that it comes off as their being poked fun at when they're refuted with the most simplistic examples. Your absurd logic is because it's never mentioned in Nolan's world, it doesn't exist. I mean were you pulling my leg when you thought that one up?

Of all the things you've spewed to defend this movie in the last 8 months, that was by far the easiest to shut down, and not because it was easy to provide real life examples of it, but because the idea that because something was never mentioned before doesn't mean it doesn't exist lol. Before TDKR they never discussed nuclear bombs. You must have broken out in hives when you saw it in Rises

Keeping his identity safe until Bruce would join the LoS is far different than not believing someone who said she was his daughter and had a story that one would have to believe regarding the Pit.

You're right it is different. Ra's just taking the word of child with a story of the pit that anyone could have spun her to set Ra's up is a total contradiction to the cautious and clever Ra's who doesn't trust anybody by keeping a dual identity to protect himself until they have PROVEN themselves trustworthy.

 

[BatLobster]

Way I see it- sure, Ra's was a clever and calculating guy, but he obviously had a soft spot for his great love. The simplest explanation is that he simply saw a close resemblance to his wife. If you don't buy that (I do, I have friends with 2 year olds that are already spitting images of them), there's nothing to say he couldn't have had a DNA test conducted. I don't feel the need to get too pedantic about this particular plot point since it's really not that important overall.

Not to mention, I haven't the slightest clue who the League of Shadows' supposed "enemies" would be. It's a lot of extrapolating considering we're not told what Ra's and Talia's first meeting was like.

 

[The Joker]

Way I see it- sure, Ra's was a clever and calculating guy, but he obviously had a soft spot for his great love. The simplest explanation is that he simply saw a close resemblance to his wife. If you don't buy that (I do, I have friends with 2 year olds that are already spitting images of them), there's nothing to say he couldn't have had a DNA test conducted. I don't feel the need to get too pedantic about this particular plot point since it's really not that important overall.

It wasn't stated as important. The movie had bigger plot holes than this one. No, I don't buy the close resemblance thing at all, especially when the child had a shaved head and looked like a boy.

A DNA test, that I could buy.

Not to mention, I haven't the slightest clue who the League of Shadows' supposed "enemies" would be. It's a lot of extrapolating considering we're not told what Ra's and Talia's first meeting was like.

They're a terrorist organization that destroy civilizations. You don't not make enemies in a field like that.

 

[Snow Queen]

They're a terrorist organization that destroy civilizations. You don't not make enemies in a field like that.

To be fair, they're not Al-Qaeda (just an example) in that world from what we saw. It seems that the group was a ghost, never seen but always there. Maybe a few enemies but I doubt as many as a group like the aforementioned group has.

 

[The Joker]

To be fair, they're not Al-Qaeda (just an example) in that world from what we saw. It seems that the group was a ghost, never seen but always there. Maybe a few enemies but I doubt as many as a group like the aforementioned group has.

A ghost? Is that why Alfred was able to seemingly simply Google that Bane was trained by the LOS?

 

[Snow Queen]

A ghost? Is that why Alfred was able to seemingly simply Google that Bane was trained by the LOS?

Fair enough but looking at Begins, it seemed like they weren't very well known. I took it that after they probably found unconscious or even dead ninjas after the end of Begins, someone went looking and something came out. Plus the LOS 2.0 didn't exactly seem to care about the whole secrecy thing as much.

 

[BatLobster]

Another thought- I think it's possible that Alfred used his British Intelligence contacts to dig up the info on Bane being trained by Ra's. Now that I think about it, there's no other reason for Bruce to rely on Alfred to research it for him. We see him using the Bat-computer to study up on Selina earlier so there's no reason why he couldn't have done the same for Bane.

Based on Batman Begins, it's fair to say the LOS at least had a "street level" presence. In BB when Ra's mentions them to Bruce in the prison cell, Bruce scoffs and calls them "vigilantes", so he's already aware of their existence.

So yeah, I would agree that it's possible the LOS had enemies, though obviously they know how to keep their existence pretty mysterious having survived for centuries. That's why I don't think it as as simple as Alfred just googling Bane, as if Bruce couldn't just do that himself.

Fair enough but looking at Begins, it seemed like they weren't very well known. I took it that after they probably found unconscious or even dead ninjas after the end of Begins, someone went looking and something came out. Plus the LOS 2.0 didn't exactly seem to care about the whole secrecy thing as much.

I kind of had a similar train of thought too. If the LOS had destroyed all those civilizations like they said, yet remained completely off the radar for all those centuries and weren't a known part of history then they obviously spent a very large amount of time completely in "the shadows".

 

[The Joker]

Fair enough but looking at Begins, it seemed like they weren't very well known.

Based on what? Their name wasn't passed around anywhere in the movie except in the Ra's training scenes. It was supposed to be a surprise for the audience that the LOS was behind the Gotham attack and that Neeson's character was actually Ra's.

Another thought- I think it's possible that Alfred used his British Intelligence contacts to dig up the info on Bane being trained by Ra's. Now that I think about it, there's no other reason for Bruce to rely on Alfred to research it for him. We see him using the Bat-computer to study up on Selina earlier so there's no reason why he couldn't have done the same for Bane.

Blake was literally walking out the door of Wayne Manor after bringing up Bane's name for the first time when Bruce asked Alfred if he'd found anything on Bane. Alfred must have been eavesdropping and went and checked out the name himself lol.

Based on Batman Begins, it's fair to say the LOS at least had a "street level" presence. In BB when Ra's mentions them to Bruce in the prison cell, Bruce scoffs and calls them "vigilantes", so he's already aware of their existence.

I forgot about that scene where Bruce recognizes the name.

 

[Snow Queen]

Based on what? Their name wasn't passed around anywhere in the movie except in the Ra's training scenes. It was supposed to be a surprise for the audience that the LOS was behind the Gotham attack and that Neeson's character was actually Ra's.

Based on the fact that they've been destroying civilizations for centuries and it seems nobody has connected them to it (otherwise Ra's wouldn't need to tell Bruce about how they were behind the destruction of various civilizations and then citing examples) and Bruce not recognizing the name when in the prison (if they were a well known terrorist group, you'd think he'd hear of them).

 

[titansupes]

Another thought- I think it's possible that Alfred used his British Intelligence contacts to dig up the info on Bane being trained by Ra's. Now that I think about it, there's no other reason for Bruce to rely on Alfred to research it for him. We see him using the Bat-computer to study up on Selina earlier so there's no reason why he couldn't have done the same for Bane.

Based on Batman Begins, it's fair to say the LOS at least had a "street level" presence. In BB when Ra's mentions them to Bruce in the prison cell, Bruce scoffs and calls them "vigilantes", so he's already aware of their existence.

So yeah, I would agree that it's possible the LOS had enemies, though obviously they know how to keep their existence pretty mysterious having survived for centuries. That's why I don't think it as as simple as Alfred just googling Bane, as if Bruce couldn't just do that himself.




I kind of had a similar train of thought too. If the LOS had destroyed all those civilizations like they said, yet remained completely off the radar for all those centuries and weren't a known part of history then they obviously spent a very large amount of time completely in "the shadows".

Plus, the CIA new about Bane (and you'd assume his associates). And it's not exactly a new thing for the Bat-Computer to be able to hack into CIA/NSA information.

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is Alfred knowing such specific things about Bane (the excommunication, "Any man to extreme for Ra's Al Ghul...)

 

[titansupes]

Blake was literally walking out the door of Wayne Manor after bringing up Bane's name for the first time when Bruce asked Alfred if he'd found anything on Bane. Alfred must have been eavesdropping and went and checked out the name himself lol.

I forgot about that scene where Bruce recognizes the name.

That's what I thought, too, hah. Alfred, you cheeky bugger.

I know we're joking here, but it actually does make sense for him to be eavesdropping. Some young cop comes to the door, making threats about getting a warrant for Dent's death or whatever. Hell, I'd listen in, too. And you know Bruce would tell him about it anyway.

The only thing is, he still manages to do it real quick. The old timer can move.

 

[Snow Queen]

^^Alfred is Nolanverse Flash.

 

[The Joker]

Based on the fact that they've been destroying civilizations for centuries and it seems nobody has connected them to it (otherwise Ra's wouldn't need to tell Bruce about how they were behind the destruction of various civilizations and then citing examples)

That doesn't mean they are ghosts just because their terrorist activities are not common knowledge like 9/11. A lot of terrorist activities or who's behind them in this case are not common knowledge.

and Bruce not recognizing the name when in the prison (if they were a well known terrorist group, you'd think he'd hear of them).

Bruce did recognize their name.

 

[BatLobster]

Blake was literally walking out the door of Wayne Manor after bringing up Bane's name for the first time when Bruce asked Alfred if he'd found anything on Bane. Alfred must have been eavesdropping and went and checked out the name himself lol.

Yeah, I thought about that lol. But I'd like to think that's what he means when he says "I'll keep digging", just cause I enjoy that aspect of Alfred's backstory. The tangerine speech was a really nice touch in TDK to give you that little glimpse into Alfred's past. Really does wonders to solidify him as a credible resource and ally for Bruce, rather than just some stuffy old butler.

 

[echostation]

I wish they stuck to the original script point where Batman is actually dying of an illness.. he gets bitten by a horse and gets Polio, or so the script rumors say at least. This way he has his electrical harness foot supports that provide maximum tension and ability. He can just barely walk but makes it thru finally

At the end they didn't include it but he is weak and the only person who shuttles him around and takes care of him is Selina Katwoman. He's done... that was the finality of the film that it should have had. That he has an illness during the 8 years and so needs an heir, a rising valiant one who will take on the mantle.

The major issue is that new heir of the Bat-throne doesn't have any martial arts training, is built smaller than most fit athletic guys and was hardly able to kick any butt during the movie. He will continue wearing it? but he will get raped and killed, quite savagely if he goes out at night.

Those are the two major issues I formally slam this film on, otherwise not a bad filmic optional interpretation of the Batman, narry it didn't include Bane's true intentions to Batman so that's a major third complaint.

So the illness, the weak successor and Bane's true intentions towards Batman were not made clear from the get go.

 

[BatLobster]

I wish they stuck to the original script point where Batman is actually dying of an illness.. he gets bitten by a horse and gets Polio, or so the script rumors say at least. This way he has his electrical harness foot supports that provide maximum tension and ability. He can just barely walk but makes it thru finally

At the end they didn't include it but he is weak and the only person who shuttles him around and takes care of him is Selina Katwoman. He's done... that was the finality of the film that it should have had. That he has an illness during the 8 years and so needs an heir, a rising valiant one who will take on the mantle.

The major issue is that new heir of the Bat-throne doesn't have any martial arts training, is built smaller than most fit athletic guys and was hardly able to kick any butt during the movie. He will continue wearing it? but he will get raped and killed, quite savagely if he goes out at night.

Those are the two major issues I formally slam this film on, otherwise not a bad filmic optional interpretation of the Batman, narry it didn't include Bane's true intentions to Batman so that's a major third complaint.

So the illness, the weak successor and Bane's true intentions towards Batman were not made clear from the get go.

 

[JackWhite]

I wish they stuck to the original script point where Batman is actually dying of an illness.. he gets bitten by a horse and gets Polio, or so the script rumors say at least. This way he has his electrical harness foot supports that provide maximum tension and ability. He can just barely walk but makes it thru finally

At the end they didn't include it but he is weak and the only person who shuttles him around and takes care of him is Selina Katwoman. He's done... that was the finality of the film that it should have had. That he has an illness during the 8 years and so needs an heir, a rising valiant one who will take on the mantle.

The major issue is that new heir of the Bat-throne doesn't have any martial arts training, is built smaller than most fit athletic guys and was hardly able to kick any butt during the movie. He will continue wearing it? but he will get raped and killed, quite savagely if he goes out at night.

Those are the two major issues I formally slam this film on, otherwise not a bad filmic optional interpretation of the Batman, narry it didn't include Bane's true intentions to Batman so that's a major third complaint.

So the illness, the weak successor and Bane's true intentions towards Batman were not made clear from the get go.

Troll job, right?

Edit: lmao, beat me too it, BatLobsterRises.

 

[Anno_Domini]

No, I don't think she was giving a little kid the hope of climbing out of the pit and finding her father when plethora's of GROWN MEN couldn't even manage it lol.

And yet...Talia always wanted to climb and look...she succeeded, lol.

Your statement was so laughable that it comes off as their being poked fun at when they're refuted with the most simplistic examples. Your absurd logic is because it's never mentioned in Nolan's world, it doesn't exist. I mean were you pulling my leg when you thought that one up?

Of all the things you've spewed to defend this movie in the last 8 months, that was by far the easiest to shut down, and not because it was easy to provide real life examples of it, but because the idea that because something was never mentioned before doesn't mean it doesn't exist lol. Before TDKR they never discussed nuclear bombs. You must have broken out in hives when you saw it in Rises

And let me just say, the easiest thing for me to shut down that you've suggested is that Ra's should have believed this little girl was a child spy

You're right it is different. Ra's just taking the word of child with a story of the pit that anyone could have spun her to set Ra's up is a total contradiction to the cautious and clever Ra's who doesn't trust anybody by keeping a dual identity to protect himself until they have PROVEN themselves trustworthy.

That anyone could have spun up? Really? Sure didn't seem like there were many children in that Pit, or would have known anything about Ra's al Ghul's wife...but, yes, you're absolutely right, lol.

I wish they stuck to the original script point where Batman is actually dying of an illness.. he gets bitten by a horse and gets Polio, or so the script rumors say at least. This way he has his electrical harness foot supports that provide maximum tension and ability. He can just barely walk but makes it thru finally

At the end they didn't include it but he is weak and the only person who shuttles him around and takes care of him is Selina Katwoman. He's done... that was the finality of the film that it should have had. That he has an illness during the 8 years and so needs an heir, a rising valiant one who will take on the mantle.

The major issue is that new heir of the Bat-throne doesn't have any martial arts training, is built smaller than most fit athletic guys and was hardly able to kick any butt during the movie. He will continue wearing it? but he will get raped and killed, quite savagely if he goes out at night.

Those are the two major issues I formally slam this film on, otherwise not a bad filmic optional interpretation of the Batman, narry it didn't include Bane's true intentions to Batman so that's a major third complaint.

So the illness, the weak successor and Bane's true intentions towards Batman were not made clear from the get go.

 

[JackWhite]

You know what's strange, I don't remember Batman elbowing Bane, causing him to fall backwards in the film, lol.

 

[Anno_Domini]

It looked as stupid on film as it does on picture so it was probably taken out, haha.

 

[JackWhite]

It looked as stupid on film as it does on picture so it was probably taken out, haha.

Perhaps, lol. But then again, it could have looked better in motion.

 

[batfreakforever]

Alot of fans of these types of films just jump the gun too quick. From what they say seems to be that they dont pay attention when watching the movie(s). Comments and ''talk'' is usually uninspiring well apart from great posters like Anno domini who in my eyes stands up for what they really think, passionate, and has a clear idea of what they are talking about be it good or bad. Anno might not like what they say but will atleast give them a fair go first. Its almost like others just talk for the hell of it. Ego gets in the way. Childhood memories get streatched to ''help'' prove thier point and stuff like how close is the story to the ''source material'', when you have 70+ years to play with,how wrong can it be. I'm one of the biggest batfans and I understand the character inside out but people have to learn how to enjoy the character & his universe through different filters and mediums. I dont feel the love of the character that much on here. People seem to say they love the character & his universe but get stuck on complaining that this or that version is the ''true version'' when there is no true version. You could say favorite version but not true. All versions have consistant traits be it they might add or drop afew traits or other things but thats what people do for the story they want to tell. As fans we should be expressing our love and enjoyment of said versions of a character not our complete hate or dislike for them. We should be telling or thinking of ways for us to enjoy the characters and his universe more so than trying to prove why this or that version is wrong or sucks.