Apocalypse X-Men: Apocalypse Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 5

[spider-neil]

Bottom line, I want to see something new and fresh.

DC - Gritty realism (well, that what they 'try' to do)
Marvel - Fun and light

What's FOX's niche?

 

[psylockolussus]

A mix of those of two.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Still not telling me why an X-Men movie needs those three in it. But you won't let it go, so I guess I should.

If we spent so much time talking about who NEEDed to be in these X-Men movies there wouldn't be many left because you don't NEED half of them there so does that mean you shouldn't have them involved?

Look in the end it comes down to this, why would they write these 3 out? leave your comic brain at the door for a moment, don't think as if FOX and anyone else would think the same way as a couple of fans where these characters below need a rest.

The most likely scenario would be they will continue to explore the magneto and quicksilver stuff since quicksilver will not be written into being a side character, its about balance.

Your missing his point Gueststar

At this point i probably am, first i was talking about why it didn't seem realistic for FOX or any creative team to take out these characters and now i am talking about why the film needs them.

Storm not in the slightest she faded into the background once she became a horsemen that's a big reach there. I agree they all helped to bring him down but there was much to be desired with how little she did. She was most like an introduction to the new young cast.

Storm ended up fading into the same position as angel and psylocke, but then so did magneto after a while so yeah there are also plenty of people crying angel and psylocke didn't get much to do which is the problem with assemble movies sometimes, i mean jubilee was not most cut because magneto needed his screen time.

Everyone is looking for a solution to a problem and they are looking in the wrong place

 

[kevork89]

Writing out characters isn't a necessity. It's the added characters that need to stop. There was no real reason Psylocke, Angel and to an extent Storm needed to be horsemen without development. Because of course they will get shafted. They were there as a threat and to show cool powers. They could have easily achieved that with random mutants much like the original horsemen we saw in the opening scene. The problem was they used them as throwaway characters. That's the issue. That's why Marvel work because they make every character have a purpose and not just there. Like Jubilee there was no reason she had to be there. She didn't serve the story and that's always kind of been an issue with X-Men. They add characters without a reason. From now on that's what needs to stop. The balance between the characters was actually quite fine besides the ones I mentioned. So I don't think that Magneto was hogging the limelight as a horsemen. It's just they didn't develop the others the way he got developed into it and that's the issue. They don't need to lose him, if a storyline works that involves Magneton and every character serves the story, then it's fine.

 

[los pollos]

That's why Marvel work because they make every character have a purpose and not just there.

This I agree with 100%. Both Avengers movies and GOTG have shown how it's possible to do team films, where all of it's characters are given multiple moments to establish their personalities through character interactions, and shine in the action sequences. The X-Men are the team this movie is named after, and yet it felt like they played second fiddle to Magneto, Mystique, Prof. X.

 

[GuestStar2004]

The X-Men are the team this movie is named after, and yet it felt like they played second fiddle to Magneto, Mystique, Prof. X.

Well to be fair the X-Men are the X-Men because of the person they are named after... professor Xavier, so if there is anyone who deserves a pretty high spotlight it would be Xavier

as for playing 2nd fiddle, i wouldn't say they played 2nd fiddle to them in Apocalypse, they played fairly middle fiddle, its just this film series is not about the individually favoured X-Men team its about the X-Men universe characters and the X-Men characters can range from any number of them

But then the comics have done that for years also.

 

[spider-neil]

The funny thing is Singer's first ensemble Usual Suspects focused on all the characters and all his ensembles since have been pretty much been from a handful of characters point of view. I feel sorry for the Cyclops (for example) fans.
X-men have been about a group of stars rather than make the characters the stars like Marvel are doing. When Norton (Hulk) and Howard (Rhodey) became divas Marvel got rid.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Yet they kept the most "diva" acting one of all RDJ?

 

[superweirdo87]

700m would have been a fine return for ASM2 had the budget been a bit more manageable. The budget was huge so even a big figure like 700m is a disappointment. Doubtless Sony would have made their money back with product placement and home video but Sony don't make movies just to break even or they may as well just leave your money in the bank to collect interest.

Again, movies are not super profitable in general. But, Sony was not looking to Spider-Man to break even. It needed to bring in major profits to offset the bleeding from movies that did not work. That did not happen.

 

[Zarex]

Yet they kept the most "diva" acting one of all RDJ?

Unlike Norton and Howard, all the MCU directors, producers and actors appear to love working with Robert. He gets paid a ton, but so far he's been worth every penny.

 

[spider-neil]

Unlike Norton and Howard, all the MCU directors, producers and actors appear to love working with Robert. He gets paid a ton, but so far he's been worth every penny.

I think Marvel are nervous about the day Downey finally buggers off but there are putting measures to ensure that transition is as smooth as possible.
Like;
a) bringing in their crown jewel, Spider-Man (SM is Marvel number one character regardless of what the IM fans would have you believe).

b) taking chances with left field properties like Guardians and Strange.

Marvel are playing the long game.

FOX by comparison just keep regurgitation the same movie over and over again.
The are heading in the right direction with X-Force, though. Hopefully they focus on the group rather an individual this time around.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Unlike Norton and Howard, all the MCU directors, producers and actors appear to love working with Robert. He gets paid a ton, but so far he's been worth every penny.

It's funny that you are always so defensive when it comes to any critique of the MCU. I disagree with your assessment as Howard got RDJ the job because they were friends and Favreau wanted that energy for Rhodey and Tony. Then RDJ kind of left his friend for dead when RH asked Marvel to fufill the contract they originally made and pay him accordingly for the sequel.

IM was popular and the first successful film from Marvel and struck a cord the most with audiences. Don't delude yourself into thinking that RDJ isnt just as much of a diva as either of them.The only diffrence is he makes more money with his presence than they ever could.

BTW Ialways found Howard to be a better Rhodey than Don Cheadle.

 

[spider-neil]

Again, movies are not super profitable in general. But, Sony was not looking to Spider-Man to break even. It needed to bring in major profits to offset the bleeding from movies that did not work. That did not happen.

That's what I meant. Sony wanted huge profits, not simply breaking even.

 

[spider-neil]

BTW Ialways found Howard to be a better Rhodey than Don Cheadle.

Agreed.

 

[Zarex]

It's funny that you are always so defensive when it comes to any critique of the MCU. I disagree with your assessment as Howard got RDJ the job because they were friends and Favreau wanted that energy for Rhodey and Tony. Then RDJ kind of left his friend for dead when RH asked Marvel to fufill the contract they originally made and pay him accordingly for the sequel.

I am an unabashed MCU supporter, but I'm not ALWAYS so defensive. I have also criticized Maliketh, Ultron and the Tissue Bots, Rourke's Whiplash, the Thor/Hulk banter in AOU and the weak ties between TV and film. Shocking, but true!

That being said, I don't know if I would accept the opinion of a serial woman beater as an absolutely true assessment of the situation.

IM was popular and the first successful film from Marvel and struck a cord the most with audiences. Don't delude yourself into thinking that RDJ isnt just as much of a diva as either of them.The only diffrence is he makes more money with his presence than they ever could.

No delusion is happening here. I am certain RDJ has a very healthy ego. I just don't think it is fair to lump in a guy who has been universally praised by his co-workers with two guys who they couldn't get rid of fast enough.

BTW Ialways found Howard to be a better Rhodey than Don Cheadle.

Me too.

 

[Sithborg]

I fail to see how the MCU isn't also regurgitating the same movie if X-men is doing it. That is the fun thing about biases.

 

[YoungBlood]

I fail to see how the MCU isn't also regurgitating the same movie if X-men is doing it. That is the fun thing about biases.

Truth.
No one wants to admit bias.
This thread is full of bias on both sides.

 

[spider-neil]

I fail to see how the MCU isn't also regurgitating the same movie if X-men is doing it. That is the fun thing about biases.

Guardians is like no other Marvel movie.
Ant Man is a heist movie.

The X-Men movies have a similar narrative in every single one of them.

 

[YoungBlood]

Guardians is like no other Marvel movie.
Ant Man is a heist movie.

The X-Men movies have a similar narrative in every single one of them.

I'm not trying to start a flame war so here is this,
Different Genres but Same Tones, Cliches, Beats, and MacGuffins.

 

[YoungBlood]

Bottom line, I want to see something new and fresh.

DC - Gritty realism (well, that what they 'try' to do)
Marvel - Fun and light

What's FOX's niche?

A mix between both.

 

[marvelrobbins]

except for deadpool X-men related films are dark and serious with elements
of humor which doesn't take away from the drama.

 

[YoungBlood]

except for deadpool X-men related films are dark and serious with elements
of humor which doesn't take away from the drama.

Bingo.

 

[Smilodon]

The X-Men do need to become more about the IP vs the actor though. Not in the "don't dish out big bucks for Hugh/Fassy/Jen/OT cast" kinda way but rather bring them in only when they're necessary and not make it a requirement for all of them to be there in each film. To that though, they'll have to start making more films though and patiently develop other characters. So waiting too long isn't going to help trying to get away from those actors.

 

[ApophènX]

Marvel is fun and light but way less organic in the feeling than X-Men movies, most of Avenger or Cap movie feel like big blockbuster well oiled machines.

Simplistic and dumb narratives is exactly what Deadpool was and people still loved it. Just because it was r-rated àd deadpool was loony, imo they didn't took the creative potential anywhere near what they could or built on a real momentum.

GotG hit many good spot, they were those great evolution of the mood and some beautifull poetry. The end was some real momentum, and creativity overall was well dose. A flow more organic too.

 

[def28]

I know this board has major issues understanding this. But Deadpool was a love story. Wade and Nessa's relationship was a huge reason why audiences connected to it. Take out the cancer, relationship and heavier dramatic scenes of torture and the film just doesn't work as well. It balances alot well even with the goofy insanity.

If films like Deadpool were so easy to get made, then Fox and other studios would have made it or films lake it 5 years ago. It was different, and looked at as a risk even with a PG-13. That wasn't cause it was a simple stupid R rated movie. It had heart, character, drama, action, romance, horror, comedy, broke rules, had charismatic leads and offered something new to audiences in terms of style in a maintstream comic film.