Apocalypse X-Men Apocalypse News and Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 29

[BeholdMe]

The same will happen for any character whose constantly in the focus while others take the back seat... wolverine is another bad example because of the fact he was made the main character in nearly all the films, including treatment as if he was the team leader....

Thats why people complain. . You have to balance, flesh out characters, and not let people lead who shouldnt..

I personally think if they shift the focus to Storm,Jean,Cyclops and Nightcrawler there won't be a bad backlash or people complaining since they are very popular XMen and some of them really didn't really get fleshed out as characters. I think if focus shifted on them unlike only Wolverine people would be happy. Especially Ororo and Kurt being my top fav XMen.

I would be all for that if it means she takes a sabbatical from the films. I seriously thought she would go her own way at the end of this movie

I personally don't want to see it but I'm sure it's something that can work. I thought as well she was going solo at the end of this movie but now I'm so confused since that means JLaw wants to continue to do films.

 

[Frankeh]

The same will happen for any character whose constantly in the focus while others take the back seat... wolverine is another bad example because of the fact he was made the main character in nearly all the films, including treatment as if he was the team leader....

Exactly, they need to split the screentime and give every team member something to do character-wise. No one should "lead" these films but some people argue in favor of that, idk why.

 

[jaymes_e06]

I can see you want to argue but all of this is irrelevant drivel.

The fact remains that there have been three flying characters called Angel. (and also the superstrong Angel in Deadpool).

It's the repetition and re-doing of characters that is getting tedious. It smacks of no overall planning at all.

If they did read the comics properly and make proper plans with character maps (like a novelist does when writing some long saga), we wouldn't be in this pickle of multiple characters with the same name popping up just because.

They need to get their house in order.

Yeah I have an aversion to nonsense. It makes me annoyed to no end if you see that as argumentative then so be it.

I have as others have poked huge gaping holes in that argument that your making. It seems your trying to fit a circle into a square.

... there's only been Magneto... and technically the character isn't British..

Stryker - suppose to be American (played by scottish (cox), Huston (american), and Helman (Australian)

Magneto - suppose to be German/Jewish (played by English Mckellen) and Fassbender (German - Irish)

Bolivar Trask - amaerican (played by an american (dinklage)

Sebastion Shaw - suppose to be American, rewritten for movie as German, (played by American (Bacon)

Sabertooth - suppose to be Canadaian (played by an Australian)

I'm not seeing any of these villains being "British" in film continuity... and what better character to be British than the Victorian Era Mad Scientist ... WITH THE LAST NAME ESSEX

I was being facetious first of all hence the sarcasm smiley and also I was talking in general for summer villains blockbusters. 99% are British.

 

[Nerial]

Excluding Wolverine.. the Women are more popular then the men, are in abundance and more powerful. The X-Men comics are a goldmine for female characters. Most will not choose a roster of Nightcrawler, Gambit, Cyclops, Beast, Havok, Angel, Colossus and Iceman over Storm, Magik, Polaris, Rogue, X-23, Kitty Pryde, Emma Frost, Psylocke, Rachel Summers, Jubilee and Jean Grey. Even with X-Force and New Mutants there's an abundance of excellent female characters.

Women in the next 5 years are gonna start standing out much more in comic films. Which is why it's important for X-Men to develop them more, not kill off or leave them just as VFX. As soon as we know it Wonder Woman and MS Marvel will be out. Wasp is now in the title of an IP and when DC gets its **** together hopefully an all female team ala Birds Of Prey.

Fox had wanted Kitty Pryde and Emma Frost films. So I wouldn't be shocked if there were a few female IP's in development over there. Especially given everyone else is making them now.

I think it's starting to get realized (in part because of the Hunger Games and a few other movies) that a female protagonist can sell. Before, they tried Electra (whatever her name is--Jennifer Garner) and Catwoman, and both failed, but not because of the was female leads--the freakin' movies were stupid as all get out.

Aside from FC (which I still liked but it was an X-men Bond film), X-men has always been above other comic books movies when it comes to its females. Even the cartoon--when I was a kid, I loved that cartoon because Rogue was my hero. Good times.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I personally think if they shift the focus to Storm,Jean,Cyclops and Nightcrawler there won't be a bad backlash or people complaining since they are very popular XMen and some of them really didn't really get fleshed out as characters. I think if focus shifted on them unlike only Wolverine people would be happy. Especially Ororo and Kurt being my top fav XMen.


I personally don't want to see it but I'm sure it's something that can work. I thought as well she was going solo at the end of this movie but now I'm so confused since that means JLaw wants to continue to do films.

Agrees. But if the film focused on just storm and jean while everyone took a back seat for 3 films, people would complain by 3rd film... there needs to be balance. Jean, scot, beast and storm should be the central characters always imo... with nightcrawler, a very close second...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Exactly, they need to split the screentime and give every team member something to do character-wise. No one should "lead" these films but some people argue in favor of that, idk why.

No one should "lead" the films... but scott and storm, should both be "leaders" . And be the leaders of the xmen... not characters like wolverine and mystique

 

[def28]

I think it's starting to get realized (in part because of the Hunger Games and a few other movies) that a female protagonist can sell. Before, they tried Electra (whatever her name is--Jennifer Garner) and Catwoman, and both failed, but not because of the was female leads--the freakin' movies were stupid as all get out.

Aside from FC (which I still liked but it was an X-men Bond film), X-men has always been above other comic books movies when it comes to its females. Even the cartoon--when I was a kid, I loved that cartoon because Rogue was my hero. Good times.

I agree. The failure of Supergirl, Catwoman and Elektra gave studios the wrong idea.

I wouldn't say always in the films. Just cause they are there doesn't mean they are more interesting, well written or acted stronger. In numbers sure. Michelle Pfiefer imo still owns every female role in a comic film out there. And right now Jessica Jones is tough to beat even though she's on tv. These X gals in the films still have alot of potential to live up to. As do DC's and Marvels. As much as the fanbase may be divided on Lawrence here, my younger female cousins love this Mystique more then anyone else in the series. As a fan, I just think it's frustrating they haven't had other crucial members here for them to enjoy as well in the spotlight. So I hope this film changes that.

But yeah X-Men as a brand all around is much stronger then everyone else when it comes to female characters in number, popularity and quality. TAS played a big part, since it has the same number of men as it does women as main members and was the first major introduction of X-Men to many. It's influence is still everywhere in X-Men.

 

[Frankeh]

I think it's starting to get realized (in part because of the Hunger Games and a few other movies) that a female protagonist can sell. Before, they tried Electra (whatever her name is--Jennifer Garner) and Catwoman, and both failed, but not because of the was female leads--the freakin' movies were stupid as all get out.

Funny thing is, you could argue Tomb Raider (2001) was a stupid movie too, but that one was a hit and at the time the highest grossing female action movie I think.

 

[Frankeh]

but scott and storm, should both be "leaders" . And be the leaders of the xmen... not characters like wolverine and mystique

That is why the ending to this movie worries me.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Girl heoes and protagonist were never the problem (sarah connor, ripley, buffy, sidney prescott, laurie strode, april O'niel, samantha stevens, jeannie, lucy ricardo, the halliwell sisters, veronica mars, jessica fletcher, sydney bristow, Dana Scully, laura croft).... the problem was crappy writting and terrible studio decisions and lack of taking a property seriously...

Thats what gave us Aeon Flux, Catwoman, and Elektra.. all in which were completely terrible and unfaithful adaptations of the title character

 

[BeholdMe]

I agree. The failure of Supergirl, Catwoman and Elektra gave studios the wrong idea.

I wouldn't say always in the films. Just cause they are there doesn't mean they are more interesting, well written or acted stronger. In numbers sure. Michelle Pfiefer imo still owns every female role in a comic film out there. And right now Jessica Jones is tough to beat even though she's on tv. These X gals in the films still have alot of potential to live up to. As do DC's and Marvels. As much as the fanbase may be divided on Lawrence here, my younger female cousins love this Mystique more then anyone else in the series. As a fan, I just think it's frustrating they haven't had other crucial members here for them to enjoy as well in the spotlight. So I hope this film changes that.

But yeah X-Men as a brand all around is much stronger then everyone else when it comes to female characters in number, popularity and quality. TAS played a big part, since it has the same number of men as it does women as main members and was the first major introduction of X-Men to many. It's influence is still everywhere in X-Men.

I do think those female led movies failed because the script was horrible. I mean Catwoman was terrible on so many fronts like bad. That may have scared the studios but they have to realize they have to have quality writers to make a good story, because that's what matters. They really need to pick it up with that. I do hope after Apocalypse and we develop these characters that we get some more female led movies. I do feel the next one is likely CPT Marvel though

 

[def28]

Completely agree. Those films are some of the worst. I don't think they put the blame purely on the quality like they should have.

Studios like to copy, if one of those films made cash we would have gotten more from others.

 

[BeholdMe]

Yes so whenever the first superhero movie starring a female does a good job in theaters there will start to be a lot more being made. My guess is Wonder Woman is going to be the movie to open the flood gates for other female led movies, after that movie slays companies are going to be scrambling to compete.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

im still shocked to be honest Marvel hasn't announced a Black Widow movie yet.. she's got the fan base.. and would get the turn out.. throw Jon's Punisher or hawkeye in it as well.. and I think they'd make good money off of it.

That's something they really can do, while the X-women are amazing an excel on a team, their solos have never been hot. Widow, She-Hulk and Captain Marvel are 3 marvel characters that have proven to excel well on their own. There's no better time for a Widow solo than now. Make it a prequel.. and that way they don't have to worry about trying to fit it in with the scheduled time-line events.

 

[def28]

Laura sells well. Much higher then most.

But yeah, it's mostly team books. Nightcrawler, Gambit and Cyc solos don't sell great either. Deadpool, Wolverine and X-23 tend to be the higher selling solo X books.

I bet a Magik solo book would do well right now though. She's climbed up the ranks alot the past few years. Especially if someone like Jason Aaron was writing it.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I mwan, thats not to say they cant do more spinoffs... if they tried they can force a story out of some of them..

Storm - the most rich with solo history... Shadow King, leader of the Morlocks

Mystique - you could probably craft a story around her taking out the purifiers or the lepar queen... or even infiltrating the hellfire club... and even tie in Destiny, Rogue and freedom force/brotherhood with blob, pyro, avalanche and toad

Rogue and gambit could be a solo.. from remys past, mauraders, savageland, or dealing with mystique ? Not sure what else

Jean and scott are a mess... but if smartly told you could craft a story with sinister, havok, polaris, cable, rachel, nate, madalyne pryor, the hellfire club, starjammers, or shi'ar

Those would all be pushing it though

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Laura sells well. Much higher then most.

But yeah, it's mostly team books. Nightcrawler, Gambit and Cyc solos don't sell great either. Deadpool, Wolverine and X-23 tend to be the higher selling solo X books.

I bet a Magik solo would do well right now though. She's climbed up the ranks alot the past few years. Especially if someone like Jason Aaron was writing it.

Problem with magik is like most x-women they're kinda one note... she battles demons and struggles with her own inner ones... theyd really have to develop her far past Belasco and her alter ego

 

[kevork89]

Yeah the problem with some female lead movies is the fact that they lack any proper story and just wanna throw a hot chick in a skimpy outfit and see if she sells. That's why Catwoman, Aeon Flux, Elektra etc failed miserably because Hollywood was just trying to sell to men. That doesn't happen anymore because men and women want to see tough badass well written female characters. Even though movies like Underworld and Resident Evil aren't amazing they do well because they present really tough female heroes who don't need to sleep with a man to get what they want.

The audience is there. They just need to write quality stories. The fact that Gal has been well received by the audiences and critics is gonna be great for her movie. She really was the standout in BvS and her movie looks to be shaping up quite nicely. It's going to get given a lot of attention because it's really the first female led comic book movie in the new era of movies and also has a female director. I'm very much looking forward to it. Marvel to me have dropped the ball too many times on their female characters. They still haven't done some of them justice. Wasp maybe has been the only one who was written great and I look forward to seeing her in the next movie. Black Widow just seems to float around men like that's all she needs is to be with Hulk, Hawkeye or Captain America. Really she should've already had a movie by now. Captain Marvel seems forever away.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I really dont think widow acts like she needs a man, infact she usually shows them up... which is exactly why she needs a solo... take her back to russia and place her against red guardian and yelena bolova.

Marvels strongest female right now is probably peggy carter... the girls of shield are great too, but peggy shines pretty bright by herself. For a character who was never all that big in the books.

 

[def28]

I'll take a Fraction Hawkeye adaption with Clint and Kate over a Black Widow film at this point. But yeah, I don't understand why that's never been put on the slate even if its not the most crucial MCU film. It will clearly make money.

Problem with magik is like most x-women they're kinda one note... she battles demons and struggles with her own inner ones... theyd really have to develop her far past Belasco and her alter ego

There's plenty to work with imo, and quite a bit that's interesting from a character perspective. As a film her separation and kidnapping lends to being apart from the X-Men much more then others. As well as exploring things that typically don't get focused on in the films regarding the supernatural. Which is why I imagine Boone wants to do New Mutants. It could stand out fairly well compared to others.

I've found her to be the most interesting and tbh best thing about X-Men comics in the recent years. Her and Doc Strange are a cool combo.

 

[BeholdMe]

im still shocked to be honest Marvel hasn't announced a Black Widow movie yet.. she's got the fan base.. and would get the turn out.. throw Jon's Punisher or hawkeye in it as well.. and I think they'd make good money off of it.

That's something they really can do, while the X-women are amazing an excel on a team, their solos have never been hot. Widow, She-Hulk and Captain Marvel are 3 marvel characters that have proven to excel well on their own. There's no better time for a Widow solo than now. Make it a prequel.. and that way they don't have to worry about trying to fit it in with the scheduled time-line events.

Im know I'm in the minority here but I have ZERO interest in seeing a Black Widow solo, she is a very boring supporting character she dosent even have her Russian accent I really think they dropped the ball with her she bores me, I'd rather see Scarlet Witch over Black Widow. As for the women in Marvel selling solos over the years yes She Hulk,Black Widow I agree with but I feel CPT Marvel fails but because they want her as the equivalent of WW in the Marvel Universe they keep pushing her and giving her all these chances when she is just a very boring character yes she has popularity but if they pushed the most popular women in the MU the way they push her they would easily surpass her. I just really think they should give some other characters that push and continuous chances and good promotion. Break them away from the team sometime and develop them solo with great writers.I'd rather see a She Hulk movie over the other two but that's just my opinion.

 

[iacobusleo]

There's plenty to work with imo, and quite a bit that's interesting from a character perspective. As a film her separation and kidnapping lends to being apart from the X-Men much more then others. As well as exploring things that typically don't get focused on in the films regarding the supernatural. Which is why I imagine Boone wants to do New Mutants. It could stand out fairly well compared to others.

I've found her to be the most interesting and tbh best thing about X-Men comic in the recent years. Her and Doc Strange are a cool combo.

I'd like to add that Illyana's whole story with Belasco can be read as a 'victim of child predator, innocence lost too fast' metaphor. Of course its a heavy topic for a blockbuster but it can be left as subtext which still allows her to bring something different to the pantheon of X women.

Plus im a fan of the complicated and sometimes toxic relationship she has with Colossus. Her damning him to be the Juggernaut was one of the strongest stories for both characters IMO.

But yeah I definitely think she has lead potential for New Mutants. It was her Darkchylde story which drove the momentum of New Mutants all the way up till Inferno after all.

And I have issues with the claim that X women are one note. They are really anything but.

 

[BeholdMe]

I'll take a Fraction Hawkeye adaption with Clint and Kate over a Black Widow film at this point. But yeah, I don't understand why that's never been put on the slate even if its not the most crucial MCU film. It will clearly make money.


There's plenty to work with imo, and quite a bit that's interesting from a character perspective. As a film her separation and kidnapping lends to being apart from the X-Men much more then others. As well as exploring things that typically don't get focused on in the films regarding the supernatural. Which is why I imagine Boone wants to do New Mutants. It could stand out fairly well compared to others.

I've found her to be the most interesting and tbh best thing about X-Men comic in the recent years. Her and Doc Strange are a cool combo.

Magik needs to make her big screen debut she is awesome in the comics so i look forward to seeing her. I do think there's a high chance she will appear in New Mutants.

 

[def28]

Yeah, I don't see why they would leave her out.

I'd like to add that Illyana's whole story with Belasco can be read as a 'victim of child predator, innocence lost too fast' metaphor. Of course its a heavy topic for a blockbuster but it can be left as subtext which still allows her to bring something different to the pantheon of X women.

Plus im a fan of the complicated and sometimes toxic relationship she has with Colossus. Her damning him to be the Juggernaut was one of the strongest stories for both characters IMO.

But yeah I definitely think she has lead potential for New Mutants. It was her Darkchylde story which drove the momentum of New Mutants all the way up till Inferno after all.

Agreed. and yeah, the Brother Sister dynamic is a good read.

 

[Mad Ones]

There are so many stories to tell with Magik. Hopefully they get to tell them in New Mutants (a movie I'm still really really hoping gets made).

Magik's been one of the best things in the X-comics in the past few years.