Apocalypse X-Men Apocalypse News and Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 41

[YoungBlood]

Fox made one movie that underperformed at the box office. The main set of films were going to get a new director anyway, as it moves forward with a great new cast. Why would you want to throw that away, and New Mutants, Gambit, X-force, etc so they can start over at Marvel and retell their origins?

Exactly.

 

[Frankeh]

If it still make them money, why should they "move on"?

I never talked about what's best for FOX, I was talking about what's best for X-Men if the prospect of a reversal is in the cards.

 

[Frankeh]

as it moves forward with a great new cast. Why would you want to throw that away, and New Mutants, Gambit, X-force, etc so they can start over at Marvel and retell their origins?

Spin-offs that (possibly -- in the case of Deadpool, certainly) won't be connected to main X-Men films because the new cast is in the past, so my question then is, what's the point? Let Deadpool continue his franchise without ties.

Retelling their origins vs. having a messed up continuity, which may get further messy? IDK guys..

 

[YoungBlood]

I never talked about what's best for FOX, I was talking about what's best for X-Men if the prospect of a reversal is in the cards.

But Apocalypse still made money, maybe not like DP, BVS, and CW, but none the less made money, so there's indication that people care about the franchise and hope for more films about the characters.

 

[Flint Marko]

And X-Men was released two years before Spider Man. So the success of X-Men had an impact on that too.

Spider-man was well into pre-production when X-men came out. Raimi had been on board for six months, the story was laid out and a few months from filming. If X-men had not have happened Spider-man would have still come out, made huge money at the box office, and kicked off the CBM boom we are currently experiencing - it made over $820 million worldwide compared to X-men's mere 290. One was far more important than the other.

Why do you continue to insist that Blade was taken as seriously as X-Men? Look at the critical reception. There is no doubt X-Men was better received. Blade was commercially succesful after B&R true enough, but don't downplay X-Men as if it did nothing for the genre.

When did I say that Blade was taken as seriously as X-men? I just said it came first, which it did, as that's kind of the only thing the X-men movie has over on Raimi's Spider-man. So not only was it not as important as Raimi's Spider-man, but it wasn't the first to kick off the trend.

Did you just quote wikipedia to prove a point?

Yep! Your point wasn't salient to begin with, so I'm not even sure what or why you were trying to argue.

 

[YoungBlood]

Spin-offs that (possibly -- in the case of Deadpool, certainly) won't be connected to main X-Men films because the new cast is in the past, so my question then is, what's the point? Let Deadpool continue his franchise without ties.

Retelling their origins vs. having a messed up continuity, which may get further messy? IDK guys..

He would still need mutants for his movie. Can't have a Deadpool film without mutants and if the mutants are at Disney, then they're gonna make another Quicksilver deal and we all saw how that turned out.

 

[JEM]

No, that would either be Sam Raimi's Spider-man, which made superhero blockbusters a permanent fixture on the forefront of 21st century western pop culture in a way the first X-men movie never could have dreamed of doing, or Blade, which was the first successful superhero property to come after Batman and Robin all but killed the genre.

For Hollywood, X1 made more impact because marketing and audience 's viewpoint.

I saw Blade in theatre with my family and we didn't know it was a comicbook movie. The main draw was Wesley Snipes killing vampires. Snipes was very popular in 90 's (black Tom Crouise for us). IMO, Wesley Snipes was the draw for most of public. Of course, fans know Blade was a marvel characters but New Line sold the movie with Snipes star power. After Batman and Robin, you can't change comicsbook movie if audience don't know you are a comicsbook film.

For X Men is different because i know it was a comicbook movie when i saw it in theatre with my family. My aunt never read comics but she knew X Men because 90 cartoon. Yes, the movie was darker, dirty and realistic than the source material but the brand was know. It 's why the movie made more impact, X Men was popular. Director like Raimi, Nolan, Favreau or others hollywood executives talk more about X1 than Blade because they know that.

Blade was the first for some fans but X-Men made impact for audience and Hollywood.

 

[superweirdo87]

If it still make them money, why should they "move on"?
Do you think Fox gonna scrap New Mutants and X-Force because its time to move on?
If anything, they're gonna have them come out first and then they do another X-Men film, and by that time they have some new creative blood.
And for Fox to just have the Deadpool rights would just create another Quicksilver situation where they have to figure out which mutant can appear in X-Men or Deadpool.

Also, I don't know that Fox would be keen to just move on and let go of the rights.

 

[superweirdo87]

Personally, I want to see more from Tye Sheridan and I love McAvoy and Fassbender, so I want to see more from them. Also, I think there are some positive things about having the movies at Fox. Disney has a family friendly brand, and if Marvel was making the movies, things like an R-rated Wolverine or hardcore violence with X-23 would not be possible.

 

[YoungBlood]

Also, I don't know that Fox would be keen to just move on and let go of the rights.

They wouldn't, at least not X-Men.
Fantastic Four, at this point, they might be ready to let go because we all saw how that box office went.
X-Men on the other hand isn't in the same situation. Now if Deadpool didn't do well, then maybe it would make sense for some talking, but that didn't happen.

 

[2kt09]

Spin-offs that (possibly -- in the case of Deadpool, certainly) won't be connected to main X-Men films because the new cast is in the past, so my question then is, what's the point? Let Deadpool continue his franchise without ties.

Retelling their origins vs. having a messed up continuity, which may get further messy? IDK guys..

Continuity be damned when I have potentially kickass comic book movies/shows from each & every studio to look forward to.

 

[JEM]

Just one things.

Matthew Key (man behind FOX/Marvel rumor) isn't a collider guys but a guest.
He is host in the marvel news show on Popcorn talk and they aren't know for breaking scoops. In fact, he mades sometimes mistakes on his show wiht the news.

But Frost is a collider guys and he just says Fox will make New Mutant, Deadpool and X Force before New X Men movie. Honestly, it isn't a news because we know Fow want a expanded universe and Drew said the same thing on HitFix. Fox can go with different reaction and not just X Men and they wanted it.

If we are lucky, the next X Men film could be in 2019 but not before.
But yeah for Internet, no Xmen movie and they will back to Marvel (source collider guys )

 

[YoungBlood]

Continuity be damned when I have potentially kickass comic book movies/shows from each & every studio to look forward to.

Competition is good, keeps everyone up on their toes.

 

[Sithborg]

Especially since we wouldn't get movies like Deadpool and Wolverine 3 under Marvel.

 

[BeholdMe]

It's cause hardcore fandom is ridiculous. I'm looking forward to Fox's upcoming slate and I think the majority of these fans regardless of what film series they prefer will be too. Deadpool would not have been a smash hit bigger then any Marvel first solo film if the hardcore fandom talk this board gives too much credit for was actually really hurting things. X-Men just doesn't have it's potential up on screen while the MCU does at the moment. Until they do Marvel will have the edge with comic fans. Just the way it goes for now. Of course Marvel films from both studios are gonna be compared by a comic fanbase, why wouldn't they?

Overacting and cheerleading is also just part of the fandom game. X-Men fans are just as guilty on both of these. Look at the hate for Quicksilver. Pretty much everyone including X-Men fans were wrong there and we overreacted before we saw anything.

I agree Apocalypse isn't as bad as Origins, but this was a hyped film that didn't live up to it's potential. People turned on Joss Whedon with AOU too, after one one film. It wasn't even reviewed that poorly. It was just disappointing compared to the previous film. This stuff goes both ways. Now people want Singer gone, even alot of the major bias fans of X2 and DOFP.

The X-Men franchise has had a bit of a rough road the past 10 years for fandom so it really has to work hard to make sure it doesn't fall. The quality of Marvel films will always be compared with fans, cause comic fans want good Marvel films. When Fox get it right, all is good. But Fox is the only one not playing ball at this point, even though alot of the filmmakers on both sides want to. So that doesn't exactly help them either with fandom either.

I for one didn't overreact when I saw QS in DOFP and then I loved the character even more after seeing it, on top of Evans just being so sexy. I did enjoy Deadpool because I felt they got the character down personality and all it was just spot on. Frankly though I do look forward to them branching out with Deadpool,New Mutants and possibly XForce I hope, nothing will take the place of the main XMen team no matter how great they are, there missing my two favorite mutants so I'll be clamoring for the next film when I can indeed see them again. I honestly wanted Singer gone after X2 because I was tired of the movies revolving around the same 3 characters and the others being background fodder, also I was over the crappy black leather we got in every movie up until FC and DOFP. So this isn't anything new for me, I've wanted fresh blood in the franchise for awhile now and someone to assist Kinberg in writing.

 

[kevork89]

Spider-man was well into pre-production when X-men came out. Raimi had been on board for six months, the story was laid out and a few months from filming. If X-men had not have happened Spider-man would have still come out, made huge money at the box office, and kicked off the CBM boom we are currently experiencing - it made over $820 million worldwide compared to X-men's mere 290. One was far more important than the other.

Oh please money isn't the be all and end all. And hold on where's that Spider Man now? Rebooted, not once but twice. X-Men is still around. Yes it's slipped but it's still around. And of course Spider Man will make more money. All of the Spider Man movies make money. He's a marketable character. X-Men has always struggled to get the big audiences. But the impact of the movie is a lot more important than what Spider Man did.

http://the-artifice.com/the-three-eras-of-the-modern-comic-book-movie/
https://www.inverse.com/article/16158-5-sways-x-men-director-bryan-singer-shaped-super-hero-movies

Read some articles. Both X-Men and Spider Man did it. If it wasn't for the deep storytelling of X-Men comic book movies would still be stuck in the past.

 

[Sithborg]

Ehh.

Look, X-men is partially responsible for the increase in Spider-man's budget. But I think Spider-man's huge success is the key for everyone going forward with big budget super hero movies. Especially the creation of Marvel Studios and the funding of Iron Man.

And when it comes to how movies affect things in Hollywood, the only thing that matters is $$$$.

 

[BeholdMe]

Oh please money isn't the be all and end all. And hold on where's that Spider Man now? Rebooted, not once but twice. X-Men is still around. Yes it's slipped but it's still around. And of course Spider Man will make more money. All of the Spider Man movies make money. He's a marketable character. X-Men has always struggled to get the big audiences. But the impact of the movie is a lot more important than what Spider Man did.

http://the-artifice.com/the-three-eras-of-the-modern-comic-book-movie/
https://www.inverse.com/article/16158-5-sways-x-men-director-bryan-singer-shaped-super-hero-movies

Read some articles. Both X-Men and Spider Man did it. If it wasn't for the deep storytelling of X-Men comic book movies would still be stuck in the past.

You better preach kevork, I hate how people try to discredit the XMen for what they did to this superhero craze as if they did nothing. So what it wasn't making huge money it still opened the door for them to possibly believe in going forward with SpiderMan and formulate a good formula with SpiderMan blowing up.

 

[JEM]

X1 made impact, it is undeniable or you rewrite the history.

 

[def28]

I for one didn't overreact when I saw QS in DOFP and then I loved the character even more after seeing it, on top of Evans just being so sexy. I did enjoy Deadpool because I felt they got the character down personality and all it was just spot on. Frankly though I do look forward to them branching out with Deadpool,New Mutants and possibly XForce I hope, nothing will take the place of the main XMen team no matter how great they are, there missing my two favorite mutants so I'll be clamoring for the next film when I can indeed see them again. I honestly wanted Singer gone after X2 because I was tired of the movies revolving around the same 3 characters and the others being background fodder, also I was over the crappy black leather we got in every movie up until FC and DOFP. So this isn't anything new for me, I've wanted fresh blood in the franchise for awhile now and someone to assist Kinberg in writing.

Completely agree with the bolded. There's clearly more potential with the majority of characters here. Which is a big reason why this series gets heat. People want more not less and it's just been taking awhile.

 

[BeholdMe]

Completely agree with the bolded. There's clearly more potential with the majority of characters here. Which is a big reason why this series gets heat. People want more not less and it's just been taking awhile.

Exactly we've gone in so many movies from this franchise and some characters still have no development or just very little. I'm looking forward to seeing more with different characters they had no voice before. That's why I don't want the period between the next main XMen film to be that great because I did see potential with the how some characters were handled.

 

[RalphieRandy]

Look, I don't understand why some of you don't get this or continue to ignore it. But Fox has made alot of bad Marvel films. There is no way around it. That is why they get more crap. Because they have made more.

Nobody is beating Fox over the head for Deadpool. They keep making audience pleasing films on that quality and they will be fine.

That doesn't negate the fact that people give marvel way more slack than other studios for doing the EXACT SAME THING. I'm not talking about the qualities if films. I'm talking about changing things from the source or taking liberties. Which marvel is also guilty of as much as these other studios. Difference is no one calls them out for it.

 

[RalphieRandy]

How about the consistent sidelining of every single X-man not named Logan, Charles, Raven, or Erik? How about taking some of the most colorful and interesting characters in all of comics and consistently putting them in terrible costumes? How about retreading the same themes over and over without exploring the decades worth of stories at their disposal? How about sewing Deadpool's mouth shut? Actually, how about pretty much every single second of X3, X-men Origins, all three Fantastic Four dumpster fires, Daredevil, and Elektra?

Note that the Fox film which most closely adhered to the "spirit" of the source material is by far their most successful. That says it all.

We should all be on the same page here and understand that changes from the source material are inevitable, but there's a clear difference between minor aesthetic changes and what Fox does.

Which is why they added the younger cast. Have you not been paying attention to apocalypse?

 

[RalphieRandy]

um there are plenty who liked first amazing Spider-man.

and I am sorry i hate iron man 3 just as much as spider-man 3 and Last stand.
Thor films were very disappointing to me.

The idea marvel craps gold is wrong.no studio does.

Problem is many come into X-men boards to attack X-Men films and want to
end X-men franchse.we have right to like X-men films besides origins and last stand just as they do MCU films.

Those fans are more responable for my souring on MCU since 2012 than films themselves.

They're the reason I don't care as much about them either.

 

[Flint Marko]

Which is why they added the younger cast. Have you not been paying attention to apocalypse?

You mean the younger cast that was largely sidelined so the focus could again go towards Charles, Raven, and Erik?