Apocalypse X-Men Apocalypse News and Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 42

[GuestStar2004]

it might be abit unfair to completely dismiss any of the good ideas being kinbergs.

 

[BeholdMe]

are you serious? you cannot see a difference in directing and writing between both movies??? Good that at least the critics can, right?!...But I guess you respond positvely to the fanservice the movie offers.

there is NO plot in "X-Men: Apocalypse", the characters behave without motivation, the action is badly directed, the social commentary is non-existent, it is racist towards women of color, most scenes are fanservice without any purpose for the wider context of the story, emotions feel melodramatic and the entire ending is a pointless farce. Every scene in 'Days of Future Past' has a purpose. The character-motivations are clear and the emotional weigth the characters experience is beautifully explained. The action is never for action's sake and super imaginative. In a nutshell: 'X-Men: Apocalypse' is an embarassment, "Days of Future Past" is one of the top 3 comic book movies in recent history!



they ripped off their own scene from a previous movie entirely. This is my problem with it. They did not even tri to do something else and to push the envelope. the scene is totally stale, redundant and thus boring. The ridiculous tone of this scene is also completely inappropriate and throws you emotionally completely out of the movie. It feels way too artificial and the scene is amateurishly placed in the wider context of the movie. It maybe works as an internet clip but not as a movie scene.

I agree it was the same theme from DOFP with the QS scene but I did still enjoy I love the direction they are taking his character and Evans does a great job with it.
Kinberg is just not the man for the job at all, it was a lot of cheesiness in Apocalypse though overall I still did enjoy the movie.

 

[Link]

I must admit, I do really love this movie. It has so many problems, and it could have easily been much better, but I really do like it. It's not a great movie by any meter, but very enjoyable anyway. I'm going to see it for the fourth and final time next week, just in case it's the last Singer/Ottman X-picture ever made. I grew up with these movies and even though I'm ready for someone else to take the reins of the franchise, it's still sad.

It's pretty awful to think that Kinberg is most likely staying, even if Singer and Ottman are most likely leaving. What a world.

 

[Sithborg]

I am kind of shocked Fox is not course correcting. I feel faintly depressed about this.

We really don't know what is going on behind the scenes. It is a bit early to talk about the next X-men movie when they don't seem to have a creative team yet, beyond Kinberg's general involvement. They could find a director who has a complete vision for the next movie, and Kinberg's script could get tossed out.

 

[henzINNIT]

It's pretty awful to think that Kinberg is most likely staying, even if Singer and Ottman are most likely leaving. What a world.

That makes me shudder.

 

[superweirdo87]

I hate the idea of having Kinberg on for more. Just really, really hate it. A lot of stuff Kinberg says is very, very concerning, and there isn't enough care with characters and storylines in his work.

-Kinberg has his favorites and pushes them in, even when it's not in the best interest of the story. As many people noted, the Weapon X scene was clearly shoehorned in. Joss Whedon was forced into having the Thor sequence in Ultron. Kinberg *drove* the Weapon X scene into XMA.
-Kinberg has too narrow an idea of what an X-Men movie is.
-Kinberg does not get narrative. "That the storytelling, the actual narrative, the plots are sort of interchangeable and disposable, ultimately.” “If I ask you what your favourite movies are, you’re not going to tell me about the plot. You’re going to tell me you love this character. And so what we’ve really tried to do with Gambit is make sure that we get the voice of that character right and the tone of the comics 100% on the page.

Plots are not disposable. And I am pretty sure this attitude is related to why these movies are going in circles. People just want to spend time with these characters, nevermind what happens to them or having an interesting story.



I also find it concerning that Fox would not do any course correction after Apocalypse. They just figure that critics are mean and the numbers are what X-Men movies do.

 

[superweirdo87]

We really don't know what is going on behind the scenes. It is a bit early to talk about the next X-men movie when they don't seem to have a creative team yet, beyond Kinberg's general involvement. They could find a director who has a complete vision for the next movie, and Kinberg's script could get tossed out.

Also, I think they have to settle contracts with McAvoy, and other FC players.

I am very nervous about Kinberg coming back, though.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Also, I think they have to settle contracts with McAvoy, and other FC players.

I am very nervous about Kinberg coming back, though.

It is scary.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I hate the idea of having Kinberg on for more. Just really, really hate it. A lot of stuff Kinberg says is very, very concerning, and there isn't enough care with characters and storylines in his work.

-Kinberg has his favorites and pushes them in, even when it's not in the best interest of the story. As many people noted, the Weapon X scene was clearly shoehorned in. Joss Whedon was forced into having the Thor sequence in Ultron. Kinberg *drove* the Weapon X scene into XMA.
-Kinberg has too narrow an idea of what an X-Men movie is.
-Kinberg does not get narrative. "That the storytelling, the actual narrative, the plots are sort of interchangeable and disposable, ultimately.” “If I ask you what your favourite movies are, you’re not going to tell me about the plot. You’re going to tell me you love this character. And so what we’ve really tried to do with Gambit is make sure that we get the voice of that character right and the tone of the comics 100% on the page.

To be fair kinberg isn't solely responsible for this, bryan singer likely had the most say on the script

 

[GuestStar2004]

They could find a director who has a complete vision for the next movie, and Kinberg's script could get tossed out.

Well to be fair the story needs to be written first, the basic idea of what the story is needs to be set first so when it comes down to it i guess it really depends what sort of director FOXS wants, a director who will come onboard and work with the script, make changes if have to and move forward or a director who will come onboard and say right this script by this guy is out i wanna do my own thing... which is probably seems the least likely as i imagine whatever vision has to be put forward to FOX first.

 

[DavidHaller]

Sure, Singer is equally responsible for accepting a horrible script by a talentless writer without completely re-writing it. But maybe this time there was no time in the schedule for Singer to do this?

But at least we know that Singer has some talent while Kinberg's work is ALWAYS a trainwreck without exceptions!

 

[GuestStar2004]

Sure, Singer is equally responsible for accepting a horrible script by a talentless writer without completely re-writing it. But maybe this time there was no time in the schedule for Singer to do this?

But at least we know that Singer has some talent while Kinberg's work is ALWAYS a trainwreck without exceptions!

Look the thing is the kinberg very likely wrote the script with singers watchful eye, kinberg didn't just write a script based on his own ideas and then put it forward to singer who was like darn i don't have time to change it so lets do this, no they likely sat down and mapped the script out together

A lot of the things you mentioned in your previous post came down to creative decisions which singer very likely had a hand in and while we are on the blame kinberg for all wagon and want to keep faith in Bryan... There is only so much you can believe Bryan was cheated with problems that were out of his control

its like if Bryan was the director for the next X-men movie I'd be fine with that since I did like X-Men: Apocalypse but I'd also be aware that we probably wouldn't get a heap load of action and there would still be mostly silent mutants used for their powers since it's been a trope since X1

 

[psylockolussus]

@DACrowe, they have plenty of time to replace writers if the movie is set for a 2019 release. So I wouldn't worry much. With Apocalypse underperforming (can't even outgross a 2000 film in North America, for God's sake), there should be a lot of damage control happening right now.

And speaking of Kinberg's other films. I thought Jumper was pretty bad. Mr. and Mrs. Smith is a popcorn movie at best, nothing more. This is War was awful.

 

[SAUspartan]

Kinberg is a fine writer.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Kinberg is writing the next X-Men film?

I see Fox are determined to run the X-Men series into the ground. Sigh.

 

[First Avenger]

Kinberg is writing the next X-Men film?

I see Fox are determined to run the X-Men series into the ground. Sigh.

Yeah I really don't get the logic behind keeping him as writer of the main series. Producer sure,but he sucks at writing.

 

[ImSGirl95]

What? He is better as a producer?
The guy is always talking about stuff that doesn't end happening.
He still talks about a F4 sequel ...

 

[First Avenger]

What? He is better as a producer?
The guy is always talking about stuff that doesn't end happening.
He still talks about a F4 sequel ...

He talks out of his @ss about movies he's supposed to write,he has produced some good movies.

 

[2kt09]

What? He is better as a producer?
The guy is always talking about stuff that doesn't end happening.
He still talks about a F4 sequel ...

He talks out of his @ss about movies he's supposed to write,he has produced some good movies.

Yeah, already went over this in another thread.

In the cbm writing dept, he's now 3 for 3 (TLS, F4, Apoc).

 

[def28]

Kinberg is writing the next X-Men film?

I see Fox are determined to run the X-Men series into the ground. Sigh.

Haha they just don't know how to do it any other way sadly.

Can't wait to see what new group of characters and potential they throw under the bus.

 

[Moridin]

I hadn't been following how this film did, pretty surprised to see a $210m drop from DOFP. That should be a clear signal to Fox to get fresh blood in.

Hopefully they're looking at a new director to come in and bring their own writers along

I hope so too. Kinberg really is a mediocre writer.

Well to be fair the story needs to be written first, the basic idea of what the story is needs to be set first so when it comes down to it i guess it really depends what sort of director FOXS wants, a director who will come onboard and work with the script, make changes if have to and move forward or a director who will come onboard and say right this script by this guy is out i wanna do my own thing... which is probably seems the least likely as i imagine whatever vision has to be put forward to FOX first.

Not really. Part of finding new directors will be hearing what their pitch for the film will be, where the story shoud go. I would prefer they get a director who has a strong vision of where to take the story/characters rather than hiring a director who will just come in and try to make an existing script work.

Joss Whedon was forced into having the Thor sequence in Ultron.

Other way around, he was forced to cut Thor's adventure, he argued hard for it until the studio relented and allowed a very truncated version to stay.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Other way around, he was forced to cut Thor's adventure, he argued hard for it until the studio relented and allowed a very truncated version to stay.

The studio was right. It didn't belong in an Ultron movie and stood out like a sore thumb.

 

[psylockolussus]

Haha they just don't know how to do it any other way sadly.

Can't wait to see what new group of characters and potential they throw under the bus.

They haven't have used Dazzler, Polaris and Forge yet. who knows 1 of those could be the next silent henchman or the unnamed Xavier Institute student.

 

[superweirdo87]

I hadn't been following how this film did, pretty surprised to see a $210m drop from DOFP. That should be a clear signal to Fox to get fresh blood in.

Signs have been mixed on how Fox is responding to the performance. Leadership has changed and Apocalypse was a factor, apparently. Kinberg told Steve Frosty Weintrbaub of Collider that Fox was okay with the box office. Kinberg's take was that DOFP was atypical with its combined cast and the franchise never crossed 500M before DOFP.

I think some might see the weaker box office as back to business, rather than a decline. However, there is a lot to be concerned about. I think one limitation of the "back to business" view is that the overseas opening lagged DOFP by about ~15% and was about comparable with ERs, though declines were sharp in some markets like the UK, Australia, and France, even in their currencies.

But, the legs overseas were weaker in most markets. And stateside, they were a lot weaker than DOFP and First Class.

It also deserves noting that reviews were the worst of any X-Men team movie.

One challenge, in particular, for the franchise is what reviewers hit hard: the movie was too familiar and too much of the same. Given how well Deadpool did and SS will likely do, it seems audiences want some freshness. Fresh blood seems essential in this case.

 

[yaellen]

I hadn't been following how this film did, pretty surprised to see a $210m drop from DOFP. That should be a clear signal to Fox to get fresh blood in.

Signs have been mixed on how Fox is responding to the performance. Leadership has changed and Apocalypse was a factor, apparently. Kinberg told Steve Frosty Weintrbaub of Collider that Fox was okay with the box office. Kinberg's take was that DOFP was atypical with its combined cast and the franchise never crossed 500M before DOFP.

I think some might see the weaker box office as back to business, rather than a decline. However, there is a lot to be concerned about. I think one limitation of the "back to business" view is that the overseas opening lagged DOFP by about ~15% and was about comparable with ERs, though declines were sharp in some markets like the UK, Australia, and France, even in their currencies.

But, the legs overseas were weaker in most markets. And stateside, they were a lot weaker than DOFP and First Class.

It also deserves noting that reviews were the worst of any X-Men team movie.

One challenge, in particular, for the franchise is what reviewers hit hard: the movie was too familiar and too much of the same. Given how well Deadpool did and SS will likely do, it seems audiences want some freshness. Fresh blood seems essential in this case.

Agreed. But the thing about XMA is, it is the end chapter of all 3 and 6 movies, to certain extent end of an era for X franchise.

The plan is to move on to different directions with all their ongoing projects. The focus will not be put on Xavier and Magneto any more, and with the success of DP, we could see more change in the future.