Apocalypse X-Men Apocalypse News and Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 42

[GuestStar2004]

They go if the trailer or concept appeals to them. Suicide Squad had an edgy pop-culture vibe that geeks and millennials will love. It was like the edginess of Deadpool crossed with the team-up concept of Avengers.

I'd also say guardians of the galaxy was abit like that also so maybe thats the formula thats appealing to audience, a more comedic edgy movie that feels like it breaks from the average comic book movie, all 3 also have loads of music also, 80s to present day stuff.

Even more so when you think WB pushed for Suicide Squad to be more humorous because BVS was criticized for not really having humour.

And then of course the stand out character for X-Men Apocalypse was the humorous speedster character who goofs around with his powers and i have also seen people say they think he should get his own movie.

Bad news for the studio's overcooked reliance on Jennifer Lawrence. Bad news for the studio's undercooked portrayal of Psylocke by pop-culture favourite Olivia Munn. Lots of misjudging of the market going on here. They shot themselves in the cojones.

I think its fair to say FOX are not playing to the market here at all, they likely gave bryan the keys to this vehical and he did what he wanted with the characters he wanted to use and FOX gave him the freedom to do it

I think if FOX were playing to the market they would have pushed harder for certain things as Its interesting is that people often try and make out that certain decisions were done for audience appeal but when it comes to a character like psylocke she was a late addition to the script anyway because originally xavier was gonna be put in that 4th horseman spot before bryan and kinberg realised he wouldn't be doing anything so he wouldn't count as a horseman anyway.

 

[X-Maniac]

I'd also say guardians of the galaxy was abit like that also so maybe thats the formula thats appealing to audience, a more comedic edgy movie that feels like it breaks from the average comic book movie, all 3 also have loads of music also, 80s to present day stuff.

Even more so when you think WB pushed for Suicide Squad to be more humorous because BVS was criticized for not really having humour.

And then of course the stand out character for X-Men Apocalypse was the humorous speedster character who goofs around with his powers and i have also seen people say they think he should get his own movie.

Yes the edgy and comedic thing with 80s music is a common factor, though each of these also has a fresh feel to it too.

GoTG because of the space setting and wacky non-human heroes (Rocket Racoon, Groot), Deadpool because of breaking the fourth wall and the adult rated humour, Suicide Squad because it's a team of supervillains.

They each subverted the expectations/stereotype of the comic book movie genre. X-Men: Apocalypse didn't... but could have done if that's what they wanted to to (obviously it wasn't).

I think its fair to say FOX are not playing to the market here at all, they likely gave bryan the keys to this vehical and he did what he wanted with the characters he wanted to use and FOX gave him the freedom to do it

I think if FOX were playing to the market they would have pushed harder for certain things as Its interesting is that people often try and make out that certain decisions were done for audience appeal but when it comes to a character like psylocke she was a late addition to the script anyway because originally xavier was gonna be put in that 4th horseman spot before bryan and kinberg realised he wouldn't be doing anything so he wouldn't count as a horseman anyway.

Well, they were hoping J-Law would be their market appeal. And, to some extent, Jackman/Wolverine - hence that cameo/subplot. And also giving Quicksilver another comedic scene because everyone responded well to him in DoFP.

Other than that, Singer and co did what they wanted and, despite any thematic depth as detailed so nicely on here by Apophoenix, the overall drawing power of the film really wasn't that good. Too much focus on things the audience didn't really want (ie things they'd already seen). And at a time when people seem to love antiheroes and dark, deadly assassins, Mystique is softened into a shadow of Rebecca's menacing version.

Psylocke should have had more of a presence. Apocalypse should have been better portrayed/developed. And perhaps Wolverine should have been a horseman?

 

[GuestStar2004]

Well, they were hoping J-Law would be their market appeal. And, to some extent, Jackman/Wolverine - hence that cameo/subplot. And also giving Quicksilver another comedic scene because everyone responded well to him in DoFP.

With J law she was always gonna be part of the movie anyway so its not like they grabbed her for the appeal as they had her anyway, and believe it or not she does have a pretty big loyal fanbase as i noticed on twitter or instagram the pictures of jlaw as mystique or raven get a bunch more likes then alot of the other characters do including fan favourite psylocke, well except quicksilver i notice he gets the most likes out of them all since the films release.

With wolverine its hard to say because according to kinberg they knew they wanted wolverine in it in some way and thought about giving him a bigger role in the movie but changed their minds so it doesn't sound like at any time fox stepped in and told them to give him a bigger role but instead we got an extended cameo that was teased in the trailer, and given the bigger role they were thinking about giving him i am glad we got what we did as i think it more fun.

And perhaps Wolverine should have been a horseman?

Given what we know about the movie wolverine being a horseman probably wouldn't have fit, there was no brainwashing so wolverine would have to had join him willingly for some reason and apocalypse giving him the metal claws probably wouldn't have been something he wanted so it would be a challenge to make work esp if singer wanted to keep to his vision of apocalypse.

 

[DavidHaller]

gosh, Xavier as a horseman would have been so glorious...what a bad decision not to do it. Xavier in X-Men: Evolution was a beautifully twisted design with his psychic scythe and fight against Jean Grey.

The parts that sucked the most about XM:A have been definitely the senseless fanservice aspects of the movie like this dull, unneccessary and very redundant Wolverine Weapon X cameo. This screen time could have been beautifully used to developed the horsemen like Storm and give Apocalypse some character development besides "bua, I'm evil!"

 

[GuestStar2004]

gosh, Xavier as a horseman would have been so glorious...what a bad decision not to do it. Xavier in X-Men: Evolution was a beautifully twisted design with his psychic scythe and fight against Jean Grey.

In the films he is abit OP though, thats why apocalypse wanted him because of his powers so i don't think that would have worked very well, he could have killed anyone he wanted instantly with his mind, and thats only if brain washing was involved.

as for when they thought about making him the 4th horseman, he was gonna have the same role anyway, xavier taken for his body but he would be thought of as the 4th horseman purely because he was there so it would have been abit cheap

 

[DavidHaller]

RT does NOT matter to the ordinary person.

Every single article about Suicide Squad mentioned the HORRIBLE reviews. Of course rottentomatoes matters in this sense because other media outlets will discuss the results of this site and mediate it to the ordinary people. If you are interested at least a little bit in Suicide Squad you knew how BAD the rottentomatoes reviews have been.

BUT most people on this planet surely don't go and see dumb and dull hollywood cinema from the United States for its intellectual value or critical appeal. They watch it because they want dumb and dull North American entertainment that let them forget the world for 2 hours...if there is enough convincing expensive marketing then they will go and see it!

 

[DavidHaller]

In the films he is abit OP though, thats why apocalypse wanted him because of his powers so i don't think that would have worked very well, he could have killed anyone he wanted instantly with his mind, and thats only if brain washing was involved.

as for when they thought about making him the 4th horseman, he was gonna have the same role anyway, xavier taken for his body but he would be thought of as the 4th horseman purely because he was there so it would have been abit cheap

well, but definitely not cheaper than what we got in X:A: Xavier and Cerebro used AGAIN by an evil psychopaths to cause something horrible. REDUNDANT MUCH?! X2 had exactly the same plot. And let's not pretend that Apcoalypse and Magneto were not also ridicously over-powered. Both could have killed everybody in seconds. Xavier really wouldn't have made any difference. It also did not made any sense that Apocalyps needed to swap his body exactly in the moment when Magneto was busy destroying the world...bad timing to become vulnerable...X:A is not a movie that is particularly interested in telling a plot that made sense. It is the anti-Days of Future Past. They tried to go for big bugs with senseless action and failed.

Xavier, Storm and Magneto would have at least make sense power-wise to cause the Apocalypse on earth. Apocalypse was soooo cheap selecting his horsemen. He basically took everyone he coincidently came across 5 minutes after waking up. Psylocke and Angel are not particularly powerful mutants...lol Big Social Darwinism fail!

 

[GuestStar2004]

Whether RT matters or not i do believe reviews probably matter more, you know when you see a harsh headline for a review online somewhere that basically says its crap, i remember i was a little less excited for apocalypse because of the reviews but i came out enjoying it

With X-Men apocalypse they dropped the embargo about 2 weeks before the release in non US counties so reviews were up quite early, i know people here expected the reviews to be good because the embargo was dropped early and then of course the US had to way another week or 2 after countries non US contries got i, while with suicide squad they dropped it a couple of days before the release so that might have helped

 

[GuestStar2004]

well, but definitely not cheaper than what we got in X:A: Xavier and Cerebro used AGAIN by an evil psychopaths to cause something horrible. REDUNDANT MUCH?! X2 had exactly the same plot. And let's not pretend that Apcoalypse and Magneto were not also ridicously over-powered. Both could have killed everybody in seconds. Xavier really wouldn't have made any difference.

Well when apocalypse is after Xavier because of his powers... yeah he probably would have made a difference, it become clear apocalypse could kill someone from across the other side of the country with just his mind if he so chose to with charles powers, he could control anyone

 

[DavidHaller]

Well when apocalypse is after Xavier because of his powers... yeah he probably would have made a difference, it become clear apocalypse could kill someone from across the other side of the country with just his mind if he so chose to with charles powers, he could control anyone

I still don't get your point or see a difference. As far as I remember it is up to the screenplay to decide what Xavier can do and what he cannot. Apocalypse can destroy a city in 2 minutes and still he was able to get defeated by children.

Jean Grey can easily block Xavier's radius or at least shield the other X-Men long enough to attack horsemen Xavier...there is always a way with a good screenwriter. Oh wait a minute, this is exactly what the X-Men movies obviously do not have. They have the genius writer of Fantastic Four, This Means War, and xXx to come up with their stories...

Every plot would have been better than what we got in "X:A" because there was not plot at all!

 

[GuestStar2004]

I still don't get your point or see a difference. As far as I remember it is up to the screenplay to decide what Xavier can do and what he cannot. Apocalypse can destroy a city in 2 minutes and still he was able to get defeated by children.

Was apocalypse destroying the city? wasn't that magneto?

Yes its up to the writers if they wanna dull his powers down for a little while but they already pretty much decided since X1 that xavier could control people, freeze people, probably kill people if he wanted so they pretty much already gave him huge advantages, i mean if xavier can freeze a room for of people even before he enters it... what else can he instantly do to a room full of people?

 

[X-Maniac]

Every single article about Suicide Squad mentioned the HORRIBLE reviews. Of course rottentomatoes matters in this sense because other media outlets will discuss the results of this site and mediate it to the ordinary people. If you are interested at least a little bit in Suicide Squad you knew how BAD the rottentomatoes reviews have been.

I very much doubt "every single article" mentioned the reviews, lol.

And even then, it does not matter.

Mr and Mrs Average do not go around consulting every single article before they go to the cinema. They see the trailer on TV, say to each other 'that looks cool, shall we go this weekend?' and that's that.

BUT most people on this planet surely don't go and see dumb and dull hollywood cinema from the United States for its intellectual value or critical appeal. They watch it because they want dumb and dull North American entertainment that let them forget the world for 2 hours...if there is enough convincing expensive marketing then they will go and see it!

Yes, pretty much. If the concept and trailer look good, they'll go to see it. They want to forget about their crappy stressful jobs, all the terrorism and horror in the real world, and just about everything else. This is why rubbish films like Transformers, Jurassic World, etc, do well.

BUT... BUT... BUT... it is important for studios to have awareness of what audiences want. You have to know your audience and their expectations. It's no good constructing a movie around what some out-of-touch executives want.

Comic book adaptations (or any movie adapted from a much-loved source) have to please three groups: Critics. General Audience. The Fanbase.

While critics clearly do not have much influence on opening weekend (hence Transformers, Suicide Squad, being big hits), the reviews and ratings can be good to quote when the DVD/Blu-ray is released and might well help in getting a movie recognised at awards ceremonies.

 

[Havok83]

good lord, ya'll are still going on about Rotten Tomatoes

 

[iacobusleo]

Yes the edgy and comedic thing with 80s music is a common factor, though each of these also has a fresh feel to it too.

GoTG because of the space setting and wacky non-human heroes (Rocket Racoon, Groot), Deadpool because of breaking the fourth wall and the adult rated humour, Suicide Squad because it's a team of supervillains.

They each subverted the expectations/stereotype of the comic book movie genre. X-Men: Apocalypse didn't... but could have done if that's what they wanted to to (obviously it wasn't).

I'm wondering though how exactly can X-Men keep breaking the mold?

If they wanna set Dark Phoenix Saga in space, GoTG has already beat them to it when it comes to the space setting.

If they wanna do Mr. Sinister, the whole MCU has already beat them to it when it comes to mad scientist villains. Would cloning be a sufficient hook for audiences?

If they wanna do a story similar to Schism, Civil War has beat them to it.

If they wanna do Limbo, Dr. Strange would have already beat them to it with all the magic stuff.

So let's brainstorm here: What other X-Men storylines can be 'fresh' or 'new' to the GA? I'm struggling to think of any aside from incredibly ambitious alternate universe stories like Age of Apocalypse or House of M.

As a fan who just wants the X-Men onscreen, I'm kinda disappointed that CBMs have to be something new everytime if they wanna stay relevant. I just want well-told X-Men stories dammit! XD

 

[Havok83]

I'm wondering though how exactly can X-Men keep breaking the mold?

If they wanna set Dark Phoenix Saga in space, GoTG has already beat them to it when it comes to the space setting.

If they wanna do Mr. Sinister, the whole MCU has already beat them to it when it comes to mad scientist villains. Would cloning be a sufficient hook for audiences?

If they wanna do a story similar to Schism, Civil War has beat them to it.

If they wanna do Limbo, Dr. Strange would have already beat them to it with all the magic stuff.

Honestly, who cares? Why should Fox be afraid to do any of this bc of the MCU? By this logic, Avengers should have never happened bc X-men did the team film first. Age of Ultron shouldnt have happened bc DOFP did rogue robots first. Now all of a sudden MCU have exclusive claims to space stories, mad scientists, inner team conflict and magic? Those are pretty generic themes. Its how they are applied which sets a story apart

 

[def28]

With Wolverine 3, Deadpool and most likely X-Force being rated R Fox will be the only studio allowing adult language, sex and graphic violence in big budget mainstream comic flicks theatrically. I'd say that's their new standout. Very curious on the numbers Wolverine will be brining in.

The main X-Men IP just needs a new creative team with different character driven focus. And Like Havok said it shouldn't have to worry about generic things like robots, magic or themes with inner team conflict etc already being done. Everything is gonna be about the execution and character development.

 

[iacobusleo]

Honestly, who cares? Why should Fox be afraid to do any of this bc of the MCU? By this logic, Avengers should have never happened bc X-men did the team film first. Age of Ultron shouldnt have happened bc DOFP did rogue robots first. Now all of a sudden MCU have exclusive claims to space stories, mad scientists, inner team conflict and magic? Those are pretty generic themes. Its how they are applied which sets a story apart

Thank you, you've brought me to my next point.

I keep seeing some people being fixated on the issue that X-Men: Apocalypse is too much of the same without a subversive hook, that's why it's performed poorly. But that's not the major issue at all. It didn't generate the same amount of hype as BvS and Suicide Squad yes, but ultimately it didn't meet expectations because of the script itself, plain and simple.

 

[def28]

Apocalypse was the wrong villain to introduce with these kids. The focus should have been all on them with a supporting role from Prof X, a break from Mags and Mystque and a villain more on the lines of Sinister.

Apocalypse has been hyped for awhile and they just didn't execute him well. His inclusion felt forced for scale and they just didn't have a good story. Even on an end of the world action level it just felt uneven and messy without much of the good action say from X2. Then there was the disappointments from fan fav characters etc.

 

[iacobusleo]

Apocalypse was the wrong villain to introduce with these kids. The focus should have been all on them with a supporting role from Prof X, a break from Mags and Mystque and a villain more on the lines of Sinister.

It's easy to say with hindsight that they should have taken a break from Magneto and Mystique, but that would have never been the case. This trilogy was always conceived as a Prof X, Magneto and Mystique prequel trilogy at least since the development of DOFP, with Fassbender and Lawrence in particular with major roles. The fact that DOFP did so well would have only solidified the decision to continue the heavy emphasis on those two characters.

Apocalypse has been hyped for awhile and they just didn't execute him well, or have an interesting story around him.

Someone said that the problem was that Singer and Kinberg wanted to adapt the character of Apocalypse, without having a solid story to justify the adaptation of that character (unlike X2 and DOFP, both of which were direct adaptations of iconic stories). I fully agree.

 

[def28]

They seem to want more films and none of these characters felt like their arcs were wrapped. Constructing this as a trilogy would be a mistake as the trilogy format is pretty much dead imo, but at the same time they can't lose them as they are too good of talent. The franchise wants to keep going, but it had to switch things up.

I think it needed to just go all the way and focus on what people had been wanting for awhile, the X-Men. It tried but they needed more and didn't have the narrative or the villain to make it work. While many got left in the dust once again.

 

[DavidHaller]

So let's brainstorm here: What other X-Men storylines can be 'fresh' or 'new' to the GA? I'm struggling to think of any aside from incredibly ambitious alternate universe stories like Age of Apocalypse or House of M.

As a fan who just wants the X-Men onscreen, I'm kinda disappointed that CBMs have to be something new everytime if they wanna stay relevant. I just want well-told X-Men stories dammit! XD

I repeat myself on these boards but my pitch to FOX: X-Men as mutant revolutionaries could be something new after several movies showing the mutant holocaust over and over again! Thus I would go with "X-Tinction Agenda" and show the X-Men and Magneto come together to trigger a mutant revolution in the slave society in Genosha! Show finally a status quo shift in society that turns the tables to mutant's favor and make Magneto the king of his own mutant society in Genosha. Genosha is a stand-in for Apartheid in South Africa which ended in 1994. So the 1990s could work nicely for this revolutionary setting. The movie would start with a group of escaped mutants from Genosha looking for asylum in Xavier's school.

Why not giving marginalized groups the chance to fantasize a status shift on screen?! Instead of marginalize mutants further and further (current X-Men comics), give us fans a chance to celebrate and fantasize a Revolution for once! The whole world is shifting worrisome to the racist right at the moment, I think the X-Men movies need to take their socio-political potential seriously again to redisover its established fanbase. Get a highly diverse cast and ask AVA DUVERNAY to direct the movie!

They could reveal that Genosha's Genengineer is actually Mr. Sinister in disguise if they need a classical X-villain in the mix.


p.s.

MAGNETO WAS RIGHT! I would die of excitement if we would see Cyclops or Magneto show the "X" gesture infront of a group of freed mutant slaves in Genosha during the final act of the movie.

 

[henzINNIT]

good lord, ya'll are still going on about Rotten Tomatoes

People love to talk about their new favourite film's critical reception.


Unless it sucks.

 

[X-Maniac]

People love to talk about their new favourite film's critical reception.


Unless it sucks.

I've never been a fan of RT or most mainstream critics, to be honest.

A major reason i ran my film blog the Geek Files was to bridge the gap between obsessive geekdom and mainstream snobbishness.

I had a big argument with a major film critic when i said her critiques were nothing more than 'the gin-soaked gabblings' of the out-of-touch. She took great offence, and i loved it!

 

[JEM]

Christopher M on twitter said:

hearing that CABLE contract would likely include #Deadpool2 #Deadpool3 an #XForce trilogy and other #XMen films..multiple picture deal

You can make a good story with Cable, Sinister, Jean and Scott.

 

[Storm22]

I've just been watching some Apocalypse clips again. Am I seeing things or can you actually see the neckline of the Mystique bodysuit during the scene where Beast rests her against a wall in Cairo? Has anyone else spotted this?!