Apocalypse X-Men Apocalypse News and Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 43

[spideyboy_1111]

yeah that makes sense. Apocalypse feels like such an odd endcap to the series. As an overall arc, its just weird. DOFP was the climax. XA feels like an unnecesary tale as it never hits the same highs. I really dont think it did anything for the FC characters either. Magneto got some great characterization but this leaves him as pretty much an anti-hero. Outside of him, Mystique, Xavier and Beast arent any better as characters nor are they changed. They effectively recieved their closure as characters in DOFP

XA can primarily be seen as a springboard for the new characters but unfortunately they were underutilized so that kind of falls flat. Scott and Jean somewhat got decent material with what little they had but the rest? Waste

agrees completely.

 

[BeholdMe]

Thats the thing does she over shadow them or is it just because its jlaw as mystique thats all people can ever think about when she is on screen?

I mean looking at apocalypse how did she overshadow anyone? in terms of screen time she may have had a bit less then tye and sophie.

You can't blame characters for the lack of development in others, it doesn't work that way, it might be easy to think without them all the pieces will fall into place but thats just not how it works, you can sometimes have less and still get more like quicksilvers 10 minutes stand out role in DOFP.

Jlaw gets alot of backlash IMO because of he status in hollywood which some feel is overrated which sadly means everyone obsesses over her now, i mean i see a criticism video with some youtuber with weird colored hair, i can't remember her name but basically she pointed out the whole J law didn't wanna be in make up thing and then she said Jlaw likely demanded comfortable clothing aka the black leather jacket and she followed that with the idea nicholas hoult's was only out of make up because he see his ex gf out of make up and said hey if she ain't in make up i don't wanna be either...

In the end it all comes down to Jlaw whenever possible.

Ok your reaching I personally never said that about JLaw, my dislike for her isn't because she's playing Raven but because she is a lazy artist who seems like she half a&@es her roles I'm not a fan of her. I'm strictly going off her performance as an actress not her personally. Also about the Over shadowing part as I said in the trilogy I can't really get mad because they chose to focus on Xavier,Magneto and Mystique and we are just now getting to the formation of the XMen. I never said she overshadowed them in Apocalypse I was just speaking in general if they decided to bring her back. I'm just not a fan of this incarnation of Raven at all I don't like the direction they are taking it and yes I do feel they are catering to JLAw instead of doing the character right they are quick to remind us that JLaw is Mystique well Raven. I dislike the body suit they gave her and wish they would just do mocap. I just hope that by next film they take a break from Raven I don't want anymore lazy Raven onscreen unless they are making her Mystique even then I just want her role to be small if any and focus on the new team, instead of continuing to recycle Magneto and Mystique they need to move past them.

 

[C. Lee]

To me......it comes down to - did you have fun watching it.

I went in to it hoping to be entertained. I had no expectations of seeing minor characters getting some kind of great springboard for future movies....I wasn't expecting the end to a story arc.....I was just hoping for a couple hours of comic book superheroes running around (and flying and teleporting) while fighting some supervillains. And to me it delivered.

 

[psylockolussus]

When I see comments like "Mystique is killing the X-Men films", I can only assume that this is what's really going on.

Thinking of current superhero franchises, has there been another female character that's been given as much character development as this trilogy's Mystique?

Black Widow.

 

[iacobusleo]

Black Widow.

Black Widow definitely has had more screentime, but, and I'm not an expert in Marvel movies so I hope someone can clarify for me, has she had a consistent character arc though? The only one I can think of was the slightly out of nowhere romance with Hulk in Age of Ultron, which has yet to be followed up on. But she has so far been a supporting player in most of the Marvel movies, albeit probably a more engaging one than JLaw's Mystique.

In fact, I think only characters who have had solo movies actually get character arcs, and they so far are all male.

 

[Guard82]

In fact, I think only characters who have had solo movies actually get character arcs, and they so far are all male.

I would say that Black Panther had a pretty significant character arc in Civil War despite not being the main character of the film. Still a male, obviously, but my point would be that he had a pretty important arc even though he was a supporting player in the movie and hasn't yet had his own solo film.

 

[BMM]

Black Widow definitely has had more screentime, but, and I'm not an expert in Marvel movies so I hope someone can clarify for me, has she had a consistent character arc though?

No, not really, especially when compared to Mystique. Scarlet Witch even has more of a character arc than Black Widow. Outside of a couple of flashbacks, and some vague comments about her past, the most dynamic thing about Black Widow is which guy Marvel is trying to pair her with.

 

[carpenter82]

No, not really, especially when compared to Mystique. Scarlet Witch even has more of a character arc than Black Widow. Outside of a couple of flashbacks, and some vague comments about her past, the most dynamic thing about Black Widow is which guy Marvel is trying to pair her with.

This. Black Widow has been in five films, and not only does she rarely have a character arc, but we barely know anything about her. Also, I've had a problem with her motivations. A lot of time it's just explained away with the excuse of "Oh she's a double agent", but that doesn't necessarily work for me. The biggest example is the resolution to the airport brawl in Civil War. Personally, I haven't had any of these problems with Mystique.

 

[carpenter82]

To me......it comes down to - did you have fun watching it.

I went in to it hoping to be entertained. I had no expectations of seeing minor characters getting some kind of great springboard for future movies....I wasn't expecting the end to a story arc.....I was just hoping for a couple hours of comic book superheroes running around (and flying and teleporting) while fighting some supervillains. And to me it delivered.

Agreed

 

[kevork89]

To me......it comes down to - did you have fun watching it.

I went in to it hoping to be entertained. I had no expectations of seeing minor characters getting some kind of great springboard for future movies....I wasn't expecting the end to a story arc.....I was just hoping for a couple hours of comic book superheroes running around (and flying and teleporting) while fighting some supervillains. And to me it delivered.

Big thumbs up. I still love it and enjoyed the hell out of it.

 

[Havok83]

Black Widow.

Thats not true as others have stated. She's great as a supporting character but rarely gets much character development. I guess she would be the second most by default just bc she's been around longer but thats far behind Mystique

 

[iacobusleo]

I would say that Black Panther had a pretty significant character arc in Civil War despite not being the main character of the film. Still a male, obviously, but my point would be that he had a pretty important arc even though he was a supporting player in the movie and hasn't yet had his own solo film.

Oooh yes true true, thank you! Still doesn't solve the problem of female characters in Marvel movies. Here's hoping Captain Marvel changes things.

To me......it comes down to - did you have fun watching it.

I went in to it hoping to be entertained. I had no expectations of seeing minor characters getting some kind of great springboard for future movies....I wasn't expecting the end to a story arc.....I was just hoping for a couple hours of comic book superheroes running around (and flying and teleporting) while fighting some supervillains. And to me it delivered.

Yeah I guess that's why I'm so disappointed with this movie. The good X-Men movies were always MORE than superhero movies for me, they were more like sci fi character dramas. There is one reviewer on the What the Flick youtube channel who hates superhero movies, but always enjoyed X-Men because they never really felt like superhero movies. This movie, WAS a superhero movie, so throughout the movie I just got the feeling of 'That's it?'and was never mentally stimulated.

On the flip side, the X-Men never being real superhero movies is the problem for a lot of people. XD So it's a rock meet hard place situation. But in my opinion, Apocalypse failed not because it was or was not a superhero movie, but because it had serious flaws in the script and conceptual level. Your enjoyment is dependent on whether you notice these flaws and can let them slide. XD

 

[GuestStar2004]

Yeah I guess that's why I'm so disappointed with this movie. The good X-Men movies were always MORE than superhero movies for me, they were more like sci fi character dramas. There is one reviewer on the What the Flick youtube channel who hates superhero movies, but always enjoyed X-Men because they never really felt like superhero movies. This movie, WAS a superhero movie, so throughout the movie I just got the feeling of 'That's it?'and was never mentally stimulated.

On the flip side, the X-Men never being real superhero movies is the problem for a lot of people.

Indeed there are alot of people who want to see X-Men go abit more comic booky, even those who say they like the drama come out of these movies saying how they would have liked more action and more fanservice rather then grounding movies for the sake of drama when really thats what DOFP did, it put drama before any of that stuff, you didn't get big sentinels battles because thats not drama, watching characters die while sad music plays is drama, and while people say its a good movie deep down they are wishing there has been more.

Thats probably the issue with having this franchise still going since 2000, you have the decision to go abit more fun and give abit of fan service so you don't get yellow spandex jokes anymore which there are people who are happy to see the franchise moving in that direction but then there are people who are still hung up on X1 and X2 that any tone shift is gonna get some backlash

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

To me......it comes down to - did you have fun watching it.

I went in to it hoping to be entertained. I had no expectations of seeing minor characters getting some kind of great springboard for future movies....I wasn't expecting the end to a story arc.....I was just hoping for a couple hours of comic book superheroes running around (and flying and teleporting) while fighting some supervillains. And to me it delivered.

spot on C.Lee

 

[psylockolussus]

Thats not true as others have stated. She's great as a supporting character but rarely gets much character development. I guess she would be the second most by default just bc she's been around longer but thats far behind Mystique

Mystique was less than a supporting character in the original trilogy than Black Widow was in the 5 movies she appeared in. Anyway, Mystique being the "most developed female character" in a comic-book film isn't that special anyway, when Rogue, Jean and Storm should have taken that title and not some X-villain that was suddenly turned into something else because Bryan Singer and whoever was responsible said so.

 

[Havok83]

Mystique was less than a supporting character in the original trilogy than Black Widow was in the 5 movies she appeared in. Anyway, Mystique being the "most developed female character" in a comic-book film isn't that special anyway, when Rogue, Jean and Storm should have taken that title and not some X-villain that was suddenly turned into something else because Bryan Singer and whoever was responsible said so.

That is completely irrelevant considering the post you responded to specifically said "this trilogy's Mystique"

 

[EnDz0n3]

And the X-men toys floodgates have opened. First it was this year's Marvel Legends (Rogue being my personal fave) which are highly-sought after.

Then next year's Series 2 (looking forward to the Jim Lee Cyclops). Marvel is finally catching up that us fans are starved for X-men.

 

[elementalrage]

And the X-men toys floodgates have opened. First it was this year's Marvel Legends (Rogue being my personal fave) which are highly-sought after.

Then next year's Series 2 (looking forward to the Jim Lee Cyclops). Marvel is finally catching up that us fans are starved for X-men.

Will I ever get Gambit and Rogue

 

[X-Maniac]

Indeed there are alot of people who want to see X-Men go abit more comic booky, even those who say they like the drama come out of these movies saying how they would have liked more action and more fanservice rather then grounding movies for the sake of drama when really thats what DOFP did, it put drama before any of that stuff, you didn't get big sentinels battles because thats not drama, watching characters die while sad music plays is drama, and while people say its a good movie deep down they are wishing there has been more.

Thats probably the issue with having this franchise still going since 2000, you have the decision to go abit more fun and give abit of fan service so you don't get yellow spandex jokes anymore which there are people who are happy to see the franchise moving in that direction but then there are people who are still hung up on X1 and X2 that any tone shift is gonna get some backlash

I think people only want the films more "comic booky" in giving more accurate portrayals of the characters. They are not screaming for whizz-bang explosions and action scenes all over the place.

If you are long-time followers of a character or team in the comics, then you are excited when that is adapted to the big screen. With X-Men, there are a lot of WTF moments. Several characters are 'in name only' and for fans that is going to be exasperating.

Then we have duplicates and character reboots within the franchise and it seems there is no planning, care or co-ordination. There is no 'franchise bible' at the studio for directors and writers to follow. Kinberg clearly does not have the same power or influence as Feige.

Just look what has happened with Emma Frost being killed off-screen with a handwave, Jubilee being cast and made to look comic-accurate then almost excised from the movie, and another Caliban now being introduced. Although the first Caliban was hardly comic-accurate (he had filing cabinets rather than mutant powers!!!), it's a little weird to see a second and very different one appearing so soon afterwards in Logan (though he might be closer to the books).

It all seems a bit muddled, like directors just do whatever they want and do not think of their work being part of an existing franchise.

Marvel is much better at planning, though i would not necessarily like to see the X-Men films as blatantly interconnected. I just want a stronger feeling that it's all part of the same mythological landscape, not little islands of independence.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Is the repeated Caliban Mangold's way of payback for Singer nonchalantly giving Wolverine his adamantium back in DOFP after it was such a consequential thing in The Wolverine? Lol

 

[DACrowe]

I saw folks a few pages back comparing this movie to the MCU.

I will say X-Men: Apocalypse is better (IMO) than Thor: The Dark World and Iron Man 2. It is about on par with The Incredible Hulk and Avengers: Age of Ultron. I am aware that those movies are all better received by fans (well maybe not Thor 2...), but I think that is because fans and even critics to a degree give Marvel Studios a lot more rope due to their consistency and brand loyalty. As a whole Apocalypse as a villain is no less disappointing than Whiplash and Ultron (and no MCU villain not counting the Netflix shows has had a scene as good as the nuclear weapons scene in Apocalypse). I also really enjoyed Singer revisiting Phoenix, the Quicksilver scene, Michael Fassbender's performance which overcompensated with clichéd shorthand, and the whole new cast.

Honestly, these new kids have a lot of promise. Still, X-Men: Apocalypse feels lazy with a screenplay that kind of limps along at a meandering pace (also like Iron Man 2) while still somehow going in a very dull, very straight line (kind of like Thor 2). And despite Isaac getting one good scene, he is given nothing else of note and is wasted as a cartoonish villain the rest of the time. And the CGI is just plain bad. With that said, I do think it is better than the worst MCU movies and imagine if it wasn't made by Fox, fans would be defending it till they were blue in the face. (Glances at Thor 2, Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad) It's happened with worse movies.

As for comparisons with Sony, Apocalypse is obviously not a patch on Raimi's first two classics. It is probably worse than the third one as well, albeit I don't think it has anything as tonally dissonant or woeful as the musical numbers in Spider-Man 3. It is also better than the two Marc Webb movies overall, but suffers from the same quality as The Amazing Spider-Man 1: "I've mostly seen this before and done better too."

I actually wonder if Marvel might have similar issues with Avengers 3. Now that the Civil War thread has been pulled, they risk repeating themselves with a big bad coming down from space. I suppose a cliffhanger ending might rectify any sense of redundancy.

 

[DACrowe]

As for the Mystique and Black Widow comparisons. That is interesting. In general, I think it is obvious Black Widow is way more popular, not least of all because she is in more popular movies (not saying you have to prefer any of the Avengers movies to FC or DOFP, but... they make more money, they sell toys, they're a bigger deal culturally).

As for in terms of character, I actually will agree that Jennifer Lawrence's Mystique has a pretty great arc over three movies. If fans are able to ignore it is not like the comic book version of Mystique (which to be fair Days of Future Past explains in a very fun, clever way) then it works very well... at least in DoFP.

The irony is that while Lawrence has a good arc, and she never really overshadows anyone (the only movie where I felt she got a lion's share of screen time over most cast mates was First Class, and she wasn't a movie star back then), she completely was disengaged by Apocalypse. With that said, Scarlett Johansson also looked pretty sleepy in Captain America: Civil War. Civil War is great, but Johansson is given such little to work with that she is checking out at this point, kind of like how Samuel L. Jackson has been on auto pilot in Marvel movies after phase 1 ended. The thing is that while Lawrence didn't have a bigger role than McAvoy, Fassbender, or arguably Sheridan and Turner in Apocalypse... she still had a larger role than Johansson has ever had in these movies in Apocalypse. This is the one where she "went home." And she could not have cared less when she finally got there.

This is another problem with Apocalypse as a film. With that said, I actually do think the Lawrence Mystique is a better character, but she was kind of detrimental to X-Men: Apocalypse in the end. Black Widow, even if it is because she is usually wasted, has never had that issue.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I think people only want the films more "comic booky" in giving more accurate portrayals of the characters. They are not screaming for whizz-bang explosions and action scenes all over the place.

Well i dunno about that as i am sure there was alot of hype behind the idea that there was gonna be a huge battle in DOFP between mutants and the sentinels which ended up abit less climactic then people hoped and i am sure if the fight in X-MEN: Apocalypse was to the same degree as the airport fight in civil war there would be alot of happy people.

Lets be honest you may say you don't want whizz-bang explosions and action scenes but when you don't get it you are are left a little disappointed.

 

[DavidHaller]

Well i dunno about that as i am sure there was alot of hype behind the idea that there was gonna be a huge battle in DOFP between mutants and the sentinels which ended up abit less climactic then people hoped and i am sure if the fight in X-MEN: Apocalypse was to the same degree as the airport fight in civil war there would be alot of happy people.

Lets be honest you may say you don't want whizz-bang explosions and action scenes but when you don't get it you are are left a little disappointed.

of course we want good action scenes. These are action sci fi movies afterall. "X-Men Days of Future Past" had beautifully crafted action scenes while "X-Men Apocalypse" was a huge cgi mess badly edited and very badly crafted. Fans want creative amazing action scenes not dumb explosions and cheap cgi effects from the 1990s...(e.g. Magneto vs. Apocalpyse)

I wished they would have at least edited the whole last hour of 'X-Men Apocalypse' very differently. Sometimes good choreographed action can help you to overcome a bad script...

 

[Havok83]

This is another problem with Apocalypse as a film. With that said, I actually do think the Lawrence Mystique is a better character, but she was kind of detrimental to X-Men: Apocalypse in the end. Black Widow, even if it is because she is usually wasted, has never had that issue.

I think if she never showed up in Apocalypse, it wouldnt have had a significant impact on the film or her character arc. I dont feel like she really added much and she wasnt properly utilized. She seemed to just be there and her character kind of felt wasted in a way. She didnt feel as if she needed to be there, whereas she was obviously vital to DOFP and FC