Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - Part 14

[psylockolussus]

They should have attached it to Ant-Man and the Wasp which is obviously attracting more viewers than any of Fox's future 2018 films. Anyway, since the Darkest Minds are featuring super powered characters, it would be fitting to debut the trailer there.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Given that Fox has booked the coveted Saturday Night Hall H appearance for Deadpool and presumably X-Force for a full hour, I wouldn't be surprised if they have something for Dark Phoenix. IIRC the last two appearances by this new cast (DOFP and Apocalypse) were both unannounced surprise appearances.

Though they were some of the worst kept secrets of SDCC those two years. The former cast's appearance #BrokeTheInternet. It would be a missed opportunity for the studio not to show something. Anything. Maybe as simple as promo poster similar to those Four Horsemen.

Yeah, but that appearance in Apocalypse....didn't look all that great. That in itself was a blunder. It looked like Sophie Turner drowning in a sea of sloppy particle simulation. The fire effects in Harry Potter looked better than that. Which is why X-men Apocalypse appeared all the more silly. With more time spent on VFX, I'm expecting a less goofy depiction of that power and a more realistic fire effect given the movie is more gritty and grounded.

You said yourself Yeah, so why are you even fighting it? LOL

We know Dark Phoenix will have the Phoenix raptor precisely because she showed up with that in a previous movie. If your defense is Simon doesn't have to have the Phoenix raptor because it was badly-rendered in the previous film, then that's a very weak defense. That would only show he's fairly clueless about this fanbase. Thankfully we know he knows better in that one regard, that the fans want the Phoenix raptor to show up in a film about the Phoenix.

 

[psylockolussus]

Dark Phoenix definitely should present there as there's zero buzz for it.

 

[Jh7058622]

I think there's buzz but people like yourself are constantly trying to pull out the false narrative that everything is doom and gloom that kill the buzz. There wasn't any buzz for Logan until the trailer came out. Ant-man and The Wasp is Marvels worst opening for a sequel tied with Thor 2. Not exactly must see movie like IW.

 

[GuestStar2004]

There is buzz for the film. its just depends what sort of vocal or visual buzz you are looking for.

Its like i have heard people say there is alot of buzz for Aquaman, which i can't say i have seen or heard. so maybe the buzz exists but i clearly ain't seeing or hearing it.

 

[SumT]

Man, SumT is looking for a victory, Cktopl33 is going for the jugular. This is some debate club stuff going on right here.

I just left the battle,because it was a ridiculous battle. I dont enjoy battling with someone with such an ultra defense of a mediocre writer. Sorry, lol.

95% of the fanbase and general cbm lovers agree that Simon Kinberg is poison for the x-men. Its pretty pointless arguing with those defending Kinberg blindly, ignoring all his past work. A big waste of time. The majority of the net has spoken, and thats the opinion that prevails, not the one of 3 users on a x-men board

 

[GuestStar2004]

95% of the fanbase and general cbm lovers agree that Simon Kinberg is poison for the x-men.

Actually not as many people care about who the director is as much as you think they do. they just wanna see the film and judge for themselves.

Problem is you see a 100 voices and maximize it in your mind to 1000.

 

[Elayis]

Kinberg was co-writer, not sole writer. Learn the difference. He's a sole writer on Dark Phoenix because no other writers are listed or credited for that movie. Not on Apocalypse. He's credited with screenplay because he is the one who types out the actual physical script document that ends up in actors hands which incorporate all the ideas from the story team. Basically translating the story in shooting-script form which is required in film-making. There is usually only one person who types the final script. That doesn't mean they're creating the whole story unless there are no other writers attached on a movie.

A director always has input in the script because they will be directing a movie based on their vision, their interpretation. That's why scripts often change if written before a director is attached. If it is written alongside a director, the director often collaborate with the scriptwriter (or writing team) to shape the story in a way that fits their directing style. Otherwise, you have directors who write and direct their own script usually so they retain complete control over their own story. This is because when you have multiple writers, each writer retain a certain amount of credit & input for the final script (sometimes a script can become unfocused as a result). Even if a script is rewritten, the new writer who incorporates a certain percentage of the previous writer's script into the revision allow that previous writer to be eligible for a writing credit on a movie.

You're exhausting.

 

[fobi]

^^As are many others in this thread.

 

[fobi]

Given that Fox has booked the coveted Saturday Night Hall H appearance for Deadpool and presumably X-Force for a full hour, I wouldn't be surprised if they have something for Dark Phoenix. IIRC the last two appearances by this new cast (DOFP and Apocalypse) were both unannounced surprise appearances.

Though they were some of the worst kept secrets of SDCC those two years. The former cast's appearance #BrokeTheInternet. It would be a missed opportunity for the studio not to show something. Anything. Maybe as simple as promo poster similar to those Four Horsemen.

That's what I'm thinking/hoping. Anything that can steer this thread away from the incessant beating of a dead horse would be great. Lol

 

[EnDz0n3]

There wasn't any buzz for Logan until the trailer came out. Ant-man and The Wasp is Marvels worst opening for a sequel tied with Thor 2. Not exactly must see movie like IW.

You: Stop making it a Fox vs MCU thing!

Also You (in an X-men forum when no one was talking about it): Ant-man and the Wasp sucks at the box office!

Here’s Variety‘s write up on that:

The Marvel sequel — starring Paul Rudd and Evangeline Lilly — opened with $76 million from 4,206 North American locations. That start is significantly ahead of the original “Ant-Man,” which debuted with $57 million in 2015.

Lastly, you’re probably the only person alive who expected comparable numbers for Antman and the Wasp with INFINITY WAR.

 

[Jh7058622]

Let me first say those were individual points. I meant to quote a post talking about how Ant-Man & Wasp was supposed to be some kind of huge jump in audience than X-Men's general bo. I forgot to quote. Second stop saying things I never even implied. I'm merely saying this isn't a "win" it's mediocre at best.
Quoting news articles? How about these?

One of the complications of getting daily box office updates, especially over the weekend, is that what looks like a solid weekend number in a vacuum may actually be less impressive both compared to initial estimates and when factoring in the Friday numbers. Walt Disney’s Ant-Man and the Wasp topped the box office this weekend with $76 million. That’s a fine start for a $160m-budgeted action comedy. But that $76m debut was from a $33.8m opening day and a $11.5m Thursday preview launch. Point being, Ant-Man and the Wasp was exceptionally frontloaded this weekend, especially for a Marvel Cinematic Universe movie.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...st-mcu-marvel-paul-rudd-evangeline-lilly/amp/

There are two ways to look at the opening day for Walt Disney’s Ant-Man and the Wasp. First, you can note that the $33.8 million Friday gross (including $11.5m in Thursday previews) is the smallest opening day for an MCU sequel since the $31m debut of Thor: The Dark World back in 2013. Heck, adjusted for inflation, it’s about tied with the “inflated” $34.9m opening day for Thor 2. It’s way under the $40m-$42m “adjusted for inflation” opening days of Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy back in 2014. Marvel’s tiniest franchise, this sequel cost “just” $160m to produce, remains, by default, their smallest franchise.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...e-wasp-marvel-paul-rudd-evangeline-lilly/amp/

 

[Cktopl33]

You said yourself Yeah, so why are you even fighting it? LOL

We know Dark Phoenix will have the Phoenix raptor precisely because she showed up with that in a previous movie. If your defense is Simon doesn't have to have the Phoenix raptor because it was badly-rendered in the previous film, then that's a very weak defense. That would only show he's fairly clueless about this fanbase. Thankfully we know he knows better in that one regard, that the fans want the Phoenix raptor to show up in a film about the Phoenix.

Am I fighting it? I don't believe I made an argument about Apocalypse never having had a Phoenix raptor as you suggest (although we know it suppose to be a phoenix raptor because of the comics. The general audience might not since it only appear as flowing particle effects, it really didn't look like fire nor did it appear as a raptor). I mainly brought up X3 because that movie was primarily "suppose" to deal with dark phoenix (not Apocalypse) and Brett Ratner's visual approach to her power was muted. Bryan Singer's Apocalypse version wasn't any better. Even X2's version looked like flames (how is it that the effect got worse today from a movie that came out in 2003?) My position is simply that it should look good (like fire) and unique this time because of the longer period devoted to VFX, which was the point made in my original comment about Kinberg's approach to her power visuals. Kinberg's concept visualization seem to go back to a fire based effect, that's the significance. Both X3 and Apocalypse does not.

 

[Cktopl33]

You're exhausting.

I don't view educating on film-making processes as exhausting. Others receiving that info might I guess, but that's on them....

 

[Erik Lensherr]

New actor

 

[Lip]

Hmm... talking about Ant-Man and Thor "mediocre" box Office performance in the X-Men movie thread does not look good for the X-franchise. Because with the exception of DoFP Thor 2 outgrossed every X-Men movie. The first Ant-Man outgrossed almost all of them, and Apocalypse cost much more. If their performance is "mediocre at best", what does that mean for the whole X-Men franchise box office performance?

And I honestly don't think Dark Phoenix will outgross DoFP. At all. I don't even think it will outgross XMA.

 

[1627523]

Hmm... talking about Ant-Man and Thor "mediocre" box Office performance in the X-Men movie thread does not look good for the X-franchise. Because with the exception of DoFP Thor 2 outgrossed every X-Men movie. The first Ant-Man outgrossed almost all of them, and Apocalypse cost much more. If their performance is "mediocre at best", what does that mean for the whole X-Men franchise box office performance?

And I honestly don't think Dark Phoenix will outgross DoFP. At all. I don't even think it will outgross XMA.

XMA outgrossed Antman btw. While I think Antman & wasp did well and is definitely a success. Theres no denying that the movie disappointed in its opening. The projections were 85mil-95mil and fell short by 9mil. Its not worth going in a panic over or anything, but it does signify the movie might not have the great legs since it dropped kinda big throughout the weekend. The movie could still could still be success though I mean look at Deadpool 2. that underperformed and now it already crossed 700mil. Ant-man is fine I think Marvel studios is probably not overjoyed, but satisfied.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Yay the X-men: Apocalypse beat...Ant-man? #Winning?

(Btw the former's reported budget is $178Mil, Ant-man's is $130Mil)

Let me first say those were individual points. I meant to quote a post talking about how Ant-Man & Wasp was supposed to be some kind of huge jump in audience than X-Men's general bo. I forgot to quote. Second stop saying things I never even implied. I'm merely saying this isn't a "win" it's mediocre at best.
Quoting news articles? How about these?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...st-mcu-marvel-paul-rudd-evangeline-lilly/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...e-wasp-marvel-paul-rudd-evangeline-lilly/amp/

So instead you bring up Antman and The Wasp's front loaded box office...in an X-men forum? A franchise whose box office is most known for being front loaded? (Ask google).

And you think that's a good point to make?

Maybe we should stop talking about Ant-man? I mean you can but it's not helping your case.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

Hmm... talking about Ant-Man and Thor "mediocre" box Office performance in the X-Men movie thread does not look good for the X-franchise. Because with the exception of DoFP Thor 2 outgrossed every X-Men movie. The first Ant-Man outgrossed almost all of them, and Apocalypse cost much more. If their performance is "mediocre at best", what does that mean for the whole X-Men franchise box office performance?

And I honestly don't think Dark Phoenix will outgross DoFP. At all. I don't even think it will outgross XMA.

Fox hasn't merchandise for X-Men films, with no Hasbro action figures for any of the Fox Studios. Looking at a Marvel toy database there have been no X-Men movie toys since Wolverine Origins and X2. MCU toys everywhere, no X-Men promotions from toy aisles. It was said that Marvel Comics wasn't promoting their X-Men characters as much anymore because they don't own the movie license.

And that's the reason why the MCU is more successful. Not because they are "better". MCU-Fox Box Office comparison is unfair.

 

[Lip]

Fox hasn't merchandise for X-Men films, with no Hasbro action figures for any of the Fox Studios. Looking at a Marvel toy database there have been no X-Men movie toys since Wolverine Origins and X2. MCU toys everywhere, no X-Men promotions from toy aisles. It was said that Marvel Comics wasn't promoting their X-Men characters as much anymore because they don't own the movie license.

And that's the reason why the MCU is more successful. Not because they are "better". MCU-Fox Box Office comparison is unfair.

This boycott is a recent thing. Ant-Man still outgrossed the first X-Men trilogy. And the boycott didn't stop DoFP to hit 750 something at BO.

And how much sucess the MCU needs to people admit they're simply good at what they do? BO sucess? They have. A huge one. High scores in RT or Metacritic? They have. The critics enjoy their movies? Yes. The general audience enjoy them? They sure do. The fans feel satisfied? They do. They make historical and cultural impact? Look at what they achieved with Black Panther.

Fox has their vision which pleases some people. And they managed to make some of the best CBMs. But they also made the worst CBMs. The quality is always inconsistent. They don't have the same sucess at BO as other superhero franchises. They can't please the fans. For 18 years they have constantly put their minorities in the background when they have leading roles in comics, to prioritize the white males. They can't even get an ensemble movie right.

Anyway... I think people will hold on to that Logan Oscar nomination for the end of times. And even if Marvel gets one, it won't be enough.

 

[def28]

And that's the reason why the MCU is more successful. Not because they are "better". MCU-Fox Box Office comparison is unfair.

...meanwhile Deadpool 2 an R rated sequel plenty on here thought would not sell cause it was "niche" character, made over 700m without China yet again. In-between Avengers and Star Wars no less. And one of the most talked about scenes is one X-Men fans wanted to see for decades and didn't even include Deadpool. Just two X-Men characters, that were never given their due despite two decades of films.

The X-Men creative team doesn't always make the right X-Men films for audiences and fans... or great films period. That's the issue. When they do you get DOFP, Logan and Deadpool box office.

Look at other studios. Doesn't matter how much merch DC puts out, won't change the fact they hurt their brand with the quality of their films. Likewise with Sony and Amazing Spider-Man.

Heck, even Star Wars is in a bit of trouble and they are the kings of merch.

 

[Lip]

Look at other studios. Doesn't matter how much merch DC puts out, won't change the fact they hurt their brand with the quality of their films. Likewise with Sony and Amazing Spider-Man.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Fox hasn't merchandise for X-Men films, with no Hasbro action figures for any of the Fox Studios. Looking at a Marvel toy database there have been no X-Men movie toys since Wolverine Origins and X2.

False. There were Marvel Legends figures for X3 including a metalled-up Daniel Cudmore Colossus, a red-clad Famke Jean Grey Dark Phoenix, and a pretty gnarly-looking (that says a lot) Vinnie Jones Juggernaut. Hasbro also made a Silver Samurai figure.

MCU toys everywhere, no X-Men promotions from toy aisles.

False. Marvel has never stopped producing Marvel Legends X-men figures. I only really started collecting Marvel Legends starting in 2014 but Hasbro released toys under the "X-men Marvel Legends" umbrella with Astonishing X-men Wolverine, AvX Cyclops, Classic Magneto, Stryfe, Mohawk Storm, and a Build-a-Figure Jubilee.

2016 saw the release of another "X-men Legends" line with Wolverine, Rogue, Phoenix, Iceman, Cable, Kitty Pryde, Deadpool and a Juggernaut BAF.

Last year saw the release of Jim Lee Cyclops (my avi), Disco Dazzler, Old Man Logan, Shatterstar, Polaris, Sunfire, Colossus and a Warlock BAF.

This year Hasbro has (or will be releasing--I'm still waiting for mine to ship from Amazon) an X-men wave with Tiger stripe Wolverine, Psylocke, Punk Storm, ANAD Magneto, Sabretooth, Multiple Man, Gladiator and an Apocalypse BAF. Not to mention Two (2!) Deadpool waves that have a number of X-men characters snuck in including X-23 X-Force, Liefeld Cable, Domino, X-23 Wolverine, "X-men trainee" Deadpool, Mulleted Bishop, Omega Red and a Sauron BAF.

They might not be movie-based figures but I suppose one can say Fox is partly at fault for the huge gap in aesthetics between movie costumes and comic ones?

Not to mention the slurpee cups for the various X-men movies, Axe body spray X-men Days of Future Past boxed sets, Flipz DOFP pretzels, Red Robin partnership and gift cards, Carl's Jr partnership and kids meal toys, Movie Theatre Popcorn boxes and drink toppers, among countless other Movie promos.

It was said that Marvel Comics wasn't promoting their X-Men characters as much anymore because they don't own the movie license.

And that's the reason why the MCU is more successful. Not because they are "better". MCU-Fox Box Office comparison is unfair.

Hmmm...Titanic and Avatar must be so much better since those didn't have much in the way of toys but they still beat most MCU?

 

[def28]

Yep

 

[GuestStar2004]

People are trying to make sense of the box office when really its far more unpredictable then its let on to be. Solo: A Star Wars Story probably has one of the most surprising box office outcomes that no one would have ever guessed would happen.

And as much as we thought Deadpool 2 was gonna have a significant boosted increase at the box office because of the success of the first one it pretty much made around just under what the first one made. well around 50 - 60 mil less anyway. and now everyone is more or less hoping X-Force gets the increase everyone expected.