Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - Part 8

[psylockolussus]

Umm if you didn't notice, Hutch Parker is also in the photo and he's a producer.

 

[DACrowe]

once again, you just dont understand my point. I never said Kinberg and the whole cast didnt have dinnners all together, of course they had. Im talking intimate dinner with just the young members. We've never seen Kinberg just with Tye and Sophie spending a night, dinner, or something. or with Sophie and Alexandra. On other hand, Kinberg himself posted quite a few times photos of a dinner with just Fassbender, Mcavoy, Jen and Nich. Thats where I come from. And from what Ive been told, that Kinberg doesnt like Storm/Alexandra that much... well, yes, I have a f*** problem with Kinberg. And he doesnt even follow Alexandra or Lana. So to me, stuff like that tells me a lot. And his movies speak about all of this too. So dont come at me now trying to make me believe Kinberg suddenly is this sweetheart that loves these young X-Men and spend personal time with them and he write them great roles. Im not that blind and facts/acts speak louder than words.

I'm not trying to say it effects the quality one way or the other. I'm just pointing out this is a non-issue. As you see him at dinners with the others and say, "well they're not intimate dinners." Look I have plenty of doubts about Kinberg, but this just feels like picking at a non-issue. Especially since it's moved from never with Sophie among them, to never with all of them, to finally never intimate.

Let's just find something else to criticize the man for. Heaven knows his writing on X-Men: Apocalypse gives you plenty of opportunities.

 

[DACrowe]

Kinberg destroy with lies to Bryan Singer,Josh Trank,Verbinski,Liman,Xmen Original Cast and now Boone.He is the master,director,writer,producer...is a poison snake.Believe me

Why is there discussions about Kinberg and his personal life? And why is it an issue who he is choosing to have dinner with? The way a lot of people talk about Kinberg on here it’s like he’s killed someone. At this point he’s not doing the things that scum like Weinstein or Singer have done. He seems like a genuinely nice person and the people who work with him like him enough. None of his personal life or what he does should even be used in a negative way against him. Wanna talk about his writing, directing or producing go right ahead but I really think his relationships with actors or what he does outside of work should be left alone.

You ain't whistling Dixie, mon ami.

 

[psylockolussus]

I understand where SumT's frustration is coming from. The thing is Kinberg (and Singer) are really into the fc cast and I feel like their friendship with those actors clouded their judgment and you have Raven/Erik/Xavier show. The X-Men are now in the past. While Nicholas is still around, while the more superior Beast isn't getting an invite to reprise the role of Beast. And I remember, Singer used to say the fc cast was fun and were always joking around. While the original cast was business as usual and really serious.

 

[TheVileOne]

what do you mean?
Im not insinuating anything, Im basically saying Kinberg is sh**.

I understand, but going by some of your posts, I almost get the feeling you are suggesting there is some type of scandal going on.

 

[TheVileOne]

You ain't whistling Dixie, mon ami.

I mean he did write X-Men 3 and write and produce Fant4stic. To the Fantastic Four faithful, it was like he was an accomplice in a murder of close family members. Not literal murder, but you get what I mean.

 

[psylockolussus]

He had plenty o f chances. It's time for someone else to take the role.

 

[DACrowe]

I mean he did write X-Men 3 and write and produce Fant4stic. To the Fantastic Four faithful, it was like he was an accomplice in a murder of close family members. Not literal murder, but you get what I mean.

Hated X3. Loathed Fan4stic. But in a world where people in power are doing actual evil and heinous things, the level of hate on online message boards for a producer (or hack writer) just seems a bit absurd.

 

[ironman29758]

I understand where SumT's frustration is coming from. The thing is Kinberg (and Singer) are really into the fc cast and I feel like their friendship with those actors clouded their judgment and you have Raven/Erik/Xavier show. The X-Men are now in the past. While Nicholas is still around, while the more superior Beast isn't getting an invite to reprise the role of Beast. And I remember, Singer used to say the fc cast was fun and were always joking around. While the original cast was business as usual and really serious.

That's not how the post comes across to be honest.

Not to mention the assumption that because Simon has a good personal relationship with the FC cast, that affects or hampers the working relationship in general. From what it sounds from interviews, the FC class can be extremely professional as well, and with the exception of one or two actors (*coughs* Lawrence *coughs*). They seem to put their all into their respective roles as much as the OT cast.

Hated X3. Loathed Fan4stic. But in a world where people in power are doing actual evil and heinous things, the level of hate on online message boards for a producer (or hack writer) just seems a bit absurd.

 

[def28]

Hated X3. Loathed Fan4stic. But in a world where people in power are doing actual evil and heinous things, the level of hate on online message boards for a producer (or hack writer) just seems a bit absurd.

Was this acceptable for XMOW, Fant4stic or X3 though? Or Catwoman, Elektra, AvP, Batman and Robin, Ghost Rider, Last Airbender, Ghostbusters etc.

This is nothing new and honestly nothing comparable to say Ghostbusters. The X-Men franchise has had a passionate fanbase since beyond the films being made while fans have been going on the internet to complain in droves since TPM was released. Fox has been getting it since they released X3, XMOW, AvP, Elektra, F4, F42 etc.

Ridiculous, sure. New or surprising? No.

 

[Cktopl33]

LOL... The denial is strong with this one.

You sound just like that contrarian on here who kept arguing that Kinberg didn't ghost-direct any of X-Men: Apocalypse when Singer went AWOL.... until the Hollywood Reporter confirmed it.

Some of us here have contacts and connections on these films and we know full well what goes on.

I'm sure Kinberg and his reps want to distance him from the failure of F4 (perhaps to give him greater chance of staying involved with F4 and X-Men when they go across to Disney) but while he may have brought it in under budget, he didn't improve it and the earlier screenplays with Galactus etc sound much better.

Yes, Trank and Fox are also to blame for much of the mess. But sorry not sorry, Kinberg DID ghost-direct the reshoots of F4.

True fans of the F4 and X-Men are ready for something new. It seems to me that it's only those linked to Fox who are getting so upset about the Disney takeover.

Let's see what is done with Dark Phoenix. Will it crap all over the mythos as much as X-Men: Apocalypse?

And you sound like a delusional fan boy constantly following the crowd mantra of the day. I'm a realist and see things as they are...including, not excluding, all the circumstances. There's no need for your precious "insider contacts", X-Maniac. Crew members who worked on set have already spoken out about F4. And again, since this needs constant repeating, FOX demanded certain major changes to the script. Not kinberg.

It's just like people blaming kinberg for the mess in X3. Fox demanded changes to plot points and certain character deaths in the film. And kinberg and the other co-writer had to also write around the diminished role for cyclops since James Marsden was leaving to do superman with Bryan Singer. People keep forgetting that Kinberg originally WANTED "The Dark Phoenix Saga" to be the emotional plot of the film and fought with Fox's executives who wanted to focus on something else for the movie. You all act like Kinberg is some evil mastermind pulling all the puppet strings. It's ridiculous. Try that one again.

 

[psylockolussus]

Was this acceptable for XMOW, Fant4stic or X3 though? Or Catwoman, Elektra, AvP, Batman and Robin, Ghost Rider, Last Airbender, Ghostbusters etc.

This is nothing new and honestly nothing comparable to say Ghostbusters. The X-Men franchise has had a passionate fanbase since beyond the films being made while fans have been going on the internet to complain in droves since TPM was released. Fox has been getting it since they released X3, XMOW, AvP, Elektra, F4, F42 etc.

Ridiculous, sure. New or surprising? No.

What's TPM?

 

[Tymminator]

What's TPM?

I’m guessing The Phantom Menace,

 

[psylockolussus]

The thing is Fox wouldn't get much this negativity if they were planning these films so well, executing them very well and paying respect to the source material. Wasting Storm, Psylocke, Jubilee and Angel in the last film is a disgrace. Mystique is a hero and its always about Magneto. Etc etc etc. Then you have someone like Kinberg overseeing things and look how many delays Gambit got, Fant4stic didn't get a sequel because it bombed and now New Mutants might turn out to be an actual horror of a film. And I am sure Dark Phoenix would be a stinker as well.

 

[Big Bang]

The thing is Fox wouldn't get much this negativity if they were planning these films so well, executing them very well and paying respect to the source material. Wasting Storm, Psylocke, Jubilee and Angel in the last film is a disgrace. Mystique is a hero and its always about Magneto. Etc etc etc. Then you have someone like Kinberg overseeing things and look how many delays Gambit got, Fant4stic didn't get a sequel because it bombed and now New Mutants might turn out to be an actual horror of a film. And I am sure Dark Phoenix would be a stinker as well.

Hopefully in a few months Kinberg will just be an afterthought once these properties are folded into the MCU proper.

It makes no sense whatsoever to continue with him when you have Feige, who has proven to be a provider of consistent, financially lucrative hit after hit. It gets to a point where Kinberg simply becomes irrelevant. At best he'll get opportunities for non-Marvel or smaller scale TV related projects. No executive in their right mind is going to interject someone with the inconsistency of Kinberg into the MCU mix when the team as it currently exists is working beyond any company's wildest expectations. You'd have to be insane to do anything to do anything to even potentially rock that money train.

 

[psylockolussus]

He would stay at least until next year. Anyway from the looks of it, the release of Dark Phoenix and New Mutants would be the final nails in the coffin for Foxverse, as both films are likely going to get bad reviews imo and MCU wouldnt touch those. While Gambit and Multiple Man are pretty much dead at this point given the recent circumstances. While Kitty wouldn't get go far in development. I think there's a very slim chance for Laura unless they start filming next year. So that just leaves Deadpool 3 and X-Force.

 

[X-Maniac]

SumT, are you insinuating something inappropriate is happening here?

I think he means Kinberg has his favourites and that this then reflects in the story choices for the films (where everyone else gets shoved in the background).

 

[SumT]

I understand, but going by some of your posts, I almost get the feeling you are suggesting there is some type of scandal going on.

no no, just what XManiac just said. thats why I dont like this man (aside from little bits I hear from time to time)

and just to help: some of my favourites characters are Rogue, Cyclops, Angel and Havok. So some of you may now understand better why I dislike this man with a passion.

 

[X-Maniac]

And you sound like a delusional fan boy constantly following the crowd mantra of the day.

I don't follow any 'crowd mantra', lol... I have my opinion and that's that.

If there is an overwhelming sense of people saying the same thing, then LISTEN because it means something is rotten and wrong if so many people are saying it.

I'm pretty sure people on here who are negative about the Foxverse at present have their own minds and form their own opinions. Psylockolossus, Endzone, and everyone else.

I'm a realist and see things as they are...including, not excluding, all the circumstances. There's no need for your precious "insider contacts", X-Maniac. Crew members who worked on set have already spoken out about F4. And again, since this needs constant repeating, FOX demanded certain major changes to the script. Not kinberg.

You need to be far more of a realist then and really open your eyes rather than swallowing the studio PR.

It's just like people blaming kinberg for the mess in X3. Fox demanded changes to plot points and certain character deaths in the film. And kinberg and the other co-writer had to also write around the diminished role for cyclops since James Marsden was leaving to do superman with Bryan Singer. People keep forgetting that Kinberg originally WANTED "The Dark Phoenix Saga" to be the emotional plot of the film and fought with Fox's executives who wanted to focus on something else for the movie. You all act like Kinberg is some evil mastermind pulling all the puppet strings. It's ridiculous. Try that one again.

But what about X-Men: Apocalypse?

Who caused that mess? Who crapped all over the mythos by making Storm have no care for the genocide of her home city, Storm worship Mystique, Mystique into the leader of the X-Men, Mystique recalling how they had coined the name X-Men for themselves in the past (they didn't: see the end of X-Men: First Class for how X-Men was derived, and Mystique was nowhere in sight).

Beast has had no arc or development, Xavier is a total drip not worthy of forming or leading any X-Men, Magneto changes sides all the time and has to be given major chunks of emotional plotting to justify it.

Changes to Mystique are a complete abomination. Made even worse by the fact that J-Law has no belief in the role at all and walks through it in a zombie state with zero acting applied.

Kinberg feels terrible guilt over X3, that much is obvious. We've gone through the routine of these First Class films just so he can try to right his wrongs and prove he can do the Dark Phoenix justice with this next film - which apparently features no Shi'ar or Imperial Guard, no Hellfire Club, no outer space aside from the opening scene and heavy roles for Magneto and Mystique (neither of whom were central to the Phoenix Saga). Understandably people are concerned that there will be more crapping over the mythos.

For more evidence that Fox is clueless, look at what's going on with New Mutants (delayed so it can be extensively reworked in a way reminiscent of the F4 debacle) and Gambit (losing a third director two months before filming) and the fact we may be getting solo films focused on Multiple Man and Kitty. It's a total joke.

Feige, take the wheel!

 

[def28]

I’m guessing The Phantom Menace,

 

[Cktopl33]

I don't follow any 'crowd mantra', lol... I have my opinion and that's that.

If there is an overwhelming sense of people saying the same thing, then LISTEN because it means something is rotten and wrong if so many people are saying it.

I'm pretty sure people on here who are negative about the Foxverse at present have their own minds and form their own opinions. Psylockolossus, Endzone, and everyone else.



You need to be far more of a realist then and really open your eyes rather than swallowing the studio PR.



But what about X-Men: Apocalypse?

Who caused that mess? Who crapped all over the mythos by making Storm have no care for the genocide of her home city, Storm worship Mystique, Mystique into the leader of the X-Men, Mystique recalling how they had coined the name X-Men for themselves in the past (they didn't: see the end of X-Men: First Class for how X-Men was derived, and Mystique was nowhere in sight).

Beast has had no arc or development, Xavier is a total drip not worthy of forming or leading any X-Men, Magneto changes sides all the time and has to be given major chunks of emotional plotting to justify it.

Changes to Mystique are a complete abomination. Made even worse by the fact that J-Law has no belief in the role at all and walks through it in a zombie state with zero acting applied.

Kinberg feels terrible guilt over X3, that much is obvious. We've gone through the routine of these First Class films just so he can try to right his wrongs and prove he can do the Dark Phoenix justice with this next film - which apparently features no Shi'ar or Imperial Guard, no Hellfire Club, no outer space aside from the opening scene and heavy roles for Magneto and Mystique (neither of whom were central to the Phoenix Saga). Understandably people are concerned that there will be more crapping over the mythos.

For more evidence that Fox is clueless, look at what's going on with New Mutants (delayed so it can be extensively reworked in a way reminiscent of the F4 debacle) and Gambit (losing a third director two months before filming) and the fact we may be getting solo films focused on Multiple Man and Kitty. It's a total joke.

Feige, take the wheel!

There can be an overwhelming sense of people saying the same thing on something that can also not be entirely accurate. That's the problem with using that as a measure to form opinions on. Didn't say anything about people being negative on Foxverse, X-Mania. But rather their Kinberg hysteria lunacy while ignoring everything else around the production of these films. You should have been able to deduce that from my comments by now.

And what about X-men Apocalypse? Yes, let's get a realist perspective on this subject. You had a director (who seem to be incompetent at his job which we are now seeing played out again on Bohemian Rhapsody). You had four producers on the movie. You had four people on the story team. I think it's quite clear. Plenty of blame to go around.

With Dark Phoenix, it's all on Kinberg. Written solely by him, directed solely by him. So, this time we'll have a more rounded perspective on Kinberg's directing style without the clutter of other story writers or studio interference. No rushed production, no AWOL director. I'll be able to form a grounded opinion from this film. I don't know what the film is going to feature until it is released. I don't know if there will be any Shi'ar or not. I know there's Mocap done. I don't know how much of a role Magneto and Mystique have. There's no evidence they have major roles. Again, going off crowd mantra. Lawrence has even said one of the things she liked about these films is that she doesn't have to be the central character. There's not much detail revealed about the film. The Hellfire club I don't really care about. If they go with something more interesting...then that's fine with me. I don't know how close it will be to the comic. But I don't expect it to be in the same way Day's of Future Past wasn't that close to the comic. Or even Infinity War or Civil War. It's a film adaptation. I didn't like X-men Evolution's *correction: Wolverine and the X-men* adaptation of the Dark Phoenix that so many other people did and that featured no cosmic elements. If the story and performances are good then it doesn't bother me. I'll give everyone involved with the film a chance because I do like the actors. And I'm curious to see what Kinberg does with the story this time around now that he has more control and how he envisions it and what his directing style is. I was done with Singer's vision and direction.

As for Fox, they likely won't be around for much longer anyway if the deal get approved. There's no doubt Marvel will change things once they get their hands on these properties so arguing over what Fox is doing now is a pointless endeavor.

 

[TheVileOne]

no no, just what XManiac just said. thats why I dont like this man (aside from little bits I hear from time to time)

and just to help: some of my favourites characters are Rogue, Cyclops, Angel and Havok. So some of you may now understand better why I dislike this man with a passion.

Got it. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Ordet]

I can understand that an X-Men fan can dislike Kinberg. There are so many characters with a little role. it's true.

What i cannot understand why a Marvel fan should love Feige, cause, imho, in term of faithtfull to comics, Disney is the worst.

 

[Iceman]

He would stay at least until next year. Anyway from the looks of it, the release of Dark Phoenix and New Mutants would be the final nails in the coffin for Foxverse, as both films are likely going to get bad reviews imo and MCU wouldnt touch those. While Gambit and Multiple Man are pretty much dead at this point given the recent circumstances. While Kitty wouldn't get go far in development. I think there's a very slim chance for Laura unless they start filming next year. So that just leaves Deadpool 3 and X-Force.

Deadpool 3 and X-Force I really want to see. Just hope the others end up as good as possible.

 

[ironman29758]

There can be an overwhelming sense of people saying the same thing on something that can also not be entirely accurate. That's the problem with using that as a measure to form opinions on. Didn't say anything about people being negative on Foxverse, X-Mania. But rather their Kinberg hysteria lunacy while ignoring everything else around the production of these films. You should have been able to deduce that from my comments by now.

And what about X-men Apocalypse? Yes, let's get a realist perspective on this subject. You had a director (who seem to be incompetent at his job which we are now seeing played out again on Bohemian Rhapsody). You had four producers on the movie. You had four people on the story team. I think it's quite clear. Plenty of blame to go around.

With Dark Phoenix, it's all on Kinberg. Written solely by him, directed solely by him. So, this time we'll have a more rounded perspective on Kinberg's directing style without being clutter by other story writers or studio interference. No rushed production, no AWOL director. I'll be able to form a grounded opinion from this film. I don't know what the film is going to feature until it is released. I don't know if there will be any Shi'ar or not. I know there's Mocap done. I don't know how much of a role Magneto and Mystique have. There's no evidence they have major roles. Again, going off crowd mantra. Lawrence has even said one of the things she liked about these films is that she doesn't have to be the central character. There's not much detail revealed about the film. Hellfire club I don't really care about. If they go with something more interesting then that's fine with me. I don't know how close it will be to the comic. But I don't expect it to be in the same way Day's of Future Past wasn't that close to the comic. Or even Infinity war. It's a film adaptation. I didn't like X-men Evolution's adaptation of the Dark Phoenix that so many other people did and that featured no cosmic elements. If the story and performances are good than it doesn't bother me. I'll give everyone involved with the film a chance because I do like the actors. And I'm curious to see what Kinberg does with the story this time around now that he has more control and how he envisions it and what his directing style is. I was done with Singer's vision and direction.

As for Fox, they likely won't be around for much longer anyway if the deal get approved. There's no doubt Marvel will change things once they get their hands on these properties so arguing over what Fox is doing now is a pointless endeavor.

I don't remember X-Men Evolution ever did a take on the Dark Phoenix saga.