The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 3

[Shikamaru]

Just got back from Civil War. Overall I liked it. Like always, I like to watch these films twice before writing a full review (BvS being an exception, since I couldn't stand to see it twice). I'll bring up a few points though.

First I gotta share a funny story. I went with a friend who decided to get high before the film. He was originally born in Russia and adopted as a baby by a Canadian family. Halfway through the film, he starts tripping he might have been brainwashed as a baby and sent to the West by the Soviets to do their bidding.

Second, I thought all returning characters were at the best they've ever been in all departments, especially Tony. I felt this was the most humanized Tony we've had since IM1.

Third, T'Challa was mindblowingly good. I can't express in words just how much I loved everything they did with him. I'm super freaking hyped for the Black Panther movie now.

Fourth, surprisingly I wasn't as crazy over Spidey as I thought I'd be. He was fun, but there's nothing that surprised me about him. What I expected from the trailers is exactly what I got. [BLACKOUT]He was essentially a glorified cameo, and while I think Tom is a good choice I don't think he had much to work with for the 15 minutes he was on screen. That and his integration in the narrative didn't seem natural, it felt as if he just came from another universe (which is what literally happened but still ). Also a pet peeve of mine, but I didn't like Tony giving him advice on what he should do in fights (like when he told him to go for Cap's legs). And is it just me or did Tony make Peter's spider tracer? I don't like the idea of Peter having any sort of superhero mentor in general. It takes away from one of the biggest aspects that makes him so appealing IMO. There's no guarantee yet they'll go that route, but the second he said "Mr. Stark said to go for your legs" my mind went "uh oh".[/BLACKOUT]

Fifth, despite it being vastly superior to the book, some of the issues I had with the book still existed in the film. While I give the Russos credit for not demonizing any side the way they did in the book, I'm still not able to get behind Cap's POV. That might surprise a lot of you since most people seem to be Team Cap. The film tries balancing both sides as much as possible, but I feel Cap's argument still falls apart the second you bring in the real-life politics. Ultimately I felt the film still resorted to making Tony make bad decisions that had nothing to do with the nature of the act itself, in order to create a false equivalence in Cap's advantage.

Finally, I have no clue what the BvS lovers were talking about when they said the film is "full of jokes". Other than the airport scene, there's less jokes in this than there were in TWS...which already cut down on the jokes. As for the airport scene in particular, I still fail to see how that's not natural. Ever been in a highly stressful situation? It's normal to laugh, especially when with friends (not to mention these people face death on a daily basis and got used to it). There was a time I burst out laughing during an exam. There will probably be thousands of Americans who will crack a crapton of jokes if Trump wins the election. I don't see how the idea can be this foreign to anyone who ever took a university course or went through other highly stressful life events. You'd honestly have to be really young to not know what that's like.

But yeah, overall solid piece.

 

[Kane52630]

I was thinking about writing a full review, but for me this movie was so good I didn't need to write one. All I can say is that movie was lit!

 

[The Joker]

Civil War is at 678 mil worldwide already.

 

[Brother Jack]

The Russo's are the best directors in the CBM game since Nolan, no doubt about it.

 

[Man in the Suit]

Yep.

Civil War was great. The Russo Bros have total control of tone. It's amazing.

 

[BatLobster]

Alright, just saw Civil War. Some of my thoughts:

-The film definitely felt balanced for the most part, which is impressive considering all it was trying to do. Every character had a little something to do and for the most part, I never felt like I lost track of anyone. Fairly impressive. Also had a great balance in terms of tone. I totally get why people have used the word balanced a lot in describing this movie.

-Black Panther- great character! Chadwick Boseman was perfect. I think I might've actually been more impressed with this character than Spidey.

-Ironically, I felt that for a Captain America movie, the film really didn't do such a hot job of getting me to sympathize with Cap's side- or maybe didn't want to. I was okay being on team Tony, but I just don't think Cap came across as particularly likable in his own movie. More likable than Supes in BvS because at least he had some conviction about what he was doing and could still crack a smile here and there, but Cap seemed kind of cold in not caring enough about the collateral damage and just chalking it up to "eh, it's part of the job". So his philosophical starting point feels a bit weak, and then from there he goes on pure emotion and wants to protect Bucky at all costs. I don't know. I really felt he deserved a bigger @sskicking then this movie gave him. I also don't really think he learned anything over the course of the movie. Not sure Tony did either, for that matter.

-The action has been severely overhyped IMO, I'm sorry. I expected a lot more from the airport sequence after hearing those raves about it being the greatest superhero action sequence ever. That's the cost of hyperbole unfortunately. I was underwhelmed. There was a lot of cool stuff in there, don't me wrong...but not better than some of the classic action sequences of the genre (that didn't need like 15 heroes on screen to have an impact I might add). Also, I still strongly dislike the high shutter speed style of filming the action. That + shaky cam was a rough combo for my eyes.

-I hate to say it, but Spidey didn't even need to be in this movie. Did I enjoy seeing him up there? You bet! But if I'm being objective about it, you could've cut him entirely out of the movie and you'd probably have a smoother, tighter movie. He didn't have much of an impact on the plot, or the movie's themes, or anything really. It's 100% fan-service and universe-service. Not complaining about it, I think his appearance alone makes the movie worth seeing. But I wonder if there was a way he could've been perhaps better integrated into the fabric of the film rather than just feeling plopped in there for the heck of it.

-Spider-Man: Tom Holland definitely has a lot of potential in this role. The way he played Peter honestly felt like a healthy balance between Tobey and Andrew's versions while completely his own thing. I'm looking forward to seeing how he grows into it. However, I understand some of Shika's points too. I don't want them to make him too much of a "Tony Stark Jr." I'm going to need to see more before I call him the definitive Peter/Spidey, but he's off to a pretty good start and I'm looking forward to his solo film. Also, did they really have to make Aunt May that milfy? LOL. Marissa Tomei is hot to begin with, but they really dolled her up and were leaning into that more than I would've expected.

-Loved the final fight and the emotional hooks in the 3rd act. That was good stuff, and DEFINITELY something BvS lacked.

Overall, I think this was a very good movie but not quite the masterpiece it's being hailed as either. I think it's connection to the larger MCU is its greatest strength and weakness simultaneously. It's able to go places emotionally that feel incredibly earned. Especially with Tony, you really feel like you've been on a journey with this character and it's just so fully realized. At the same time, it doesn't entirely escape from a lot of the usual pitfalls of the serialized movie storytelling format either. Given all that it had on its plate though, it did just about as good as you could've hoped for. The main thing to me though was that it was an enjoyable movie, despite its flaws. I think that's the biggest difference between maker when comparing the two VS movies.

8/10

Congrats to the Russo Brothers. Now the first directors to have two widely acclaimed films in the MCU.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

but Cap seemed kind of cold in not caring enough about the collateral damage and just chalking it up to "eh, it's part of the job".

He immediately called for rescue teams after the 'incident'. So I disagree that he did not care. As for what he said, he is right. Sometimes bad stuff will happen and people will die. It is part of the job. The best you can do is to mitigate the damage as much as possible and hope the next time comes very much later rather than sooner. And I don't think that will change whether they are sanctioned by the government or not.

I also don't really think he learned anything over the course of the movie.

He left the Shield behind. Which means he acknowledged his deception to Stark and himself. He admits as such in the letter to Tony.

 

[BatLobster]

He immediately called for rescue teams after the 'incident'. So I disagree that he did not care. As for what he said, he is right. Sometimes bad stuff will happen and people will die. It is part of the job. The best you can do is to mitigate the damage as much as possible and hope the next time comes very much later rather than sooner. And I don't think that will change whether they are sanctioned by the government or not.

I know ultimately he does care, it just felt to me, that Cap didn't seem as torn up about it as Tony was. He was so forgiving of Scarlett Witch despite the fact that she really did make a careless mistake. I would've liked to see Cap be a little more firm with her after the incident. A little splash of "We can do better" in his thinking would've helped for me.

He left the Shield behind. Which means he acknowledged his deception to Stark and himself. He admits as such in the letter to Tony.

I suppose. The meaning of that seems a bit wishy-washy to me though and could go any number of directions. I'll grant you that the character had progressed to new territory by the end, but it felt more like him admitting something rather than learning something.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I know ultimately he does care, it just felt to me, that Cap didn't seem as torn up about it as Tony was. He was so forgiving of Scarlett Witch despite the fact that she really did make a careless mistake. I would've liked to see Cap be a little more firm with her after the incident. A little splash of "We can do better" in his thinking would've helped for me.

Wanda was feeling really bad. She was being singled out in the media. You just gave another good reason for why he would downplay it. He was trying to comfort Wanda.

 

[BatLobster]

I mean immediately after the incident though, before all the media coverage. I just would've liked to see him get a bit angrier, before regaining his composure and forgiving her. Would've actually also made me more sympathy for Wanda too.

Anyhow, it's just a nitpick. Not saying this is what the movie absolutely should've done, just something that I think would've allowed me to see Cap as a bit more three-dimensional that's all.

 

[shauner111]

Cold is not a word i would use to describe Cap in this movie, but he was hard-headed. I was on Tony's side for a lot of it but early on i understood Cap's point about standing your ground and not giving up control because one day they may be shackled when the world needs the Avengers. And he was right when it came to that by the end of the film.

I felt like the Avengers needed to be kept in check but not like that. I was leaning towards Tony more but in the end i felt like i was on both of their sides of the argument.

I absolutely loved Cap's letter to Tony. More of that attitude from Superman please.

After watching Civil War, i honestly stopped caring about the DCEU 100 percent. Now that Spidey and Black Panther...and the Russo Brothers are doing the next two Avengers movies, it's really that simple for me. They need to impress me like crazy before i care about a DCEU team-up or solo film (outside of Batman of course, which i'm not sure of yet).

Batlobster, i also was underwhelmed with the shaky cam. It wasn't enough to turn me off because it was fixed early on, but it got a little too shaky during that first action scene. Especially with Black Widow.

The airport scene was glorious. I don't think it's unbeatable or the number 1 greatest action scene in the genre. But i still loved it.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

standing your ground and not giving up control because one day they may be shackled when the world needs the Avengers. And he was right when it came to that by the end of the film.

This is a good point. At the end, Tony circumvents Ross and turns his back on everything the Accords stand for to make truce with the leader of the opposition to take down supervillains that they have not yet been cleared to take down. The film takes Cap's ideological side in the film without spelling it out.

Not to mention the bit at the end where Tony puts Ross on hold. It's a a comedic scene. But it also shows that Tony isn't taking Ross seriously and there will likely be a falling out.

I absolutely loved Cap's letter to Tony. More of that attitude from Superman please.

"I put my faith in people, in individuals" (or something like that)

That quote rang like a church bell after Superman's appalling "No man stays good in this world" idiocy.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I'm just waiting for fanboys to knock the Russos off their pedestal with the upcoming Avengers two-parter.

They had two successful comic book movies. That's the limit.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

The problem with the shaky cam in Civil War wasn't the shaky cam. TWS had it too. The problem was that they kept breaking the 180 degree rule throughout. Which made things disorienting.

Hopefully the Russos use more traditional cinematography for the Avengers films. The airport scene gives me hope.

 

[BatLobster]

Cold probably isn't the right word. Hard-headed for sure. Like I said, I would've at least appreciated some nod to the idea that Cap is taking the collateral damage to heart and wants to make a concerted effort to lead the team to being even more efficient in their missions. The fact that he seems to just accept the loss of innocent life as part of the job description just felt a bit off to me. I'm all for Cap standing behind his beliefs and being wary of being bound by the UN, I just wanted to see him take more of "We're the best in the world at this, and every day we're still working towards being even better" kind of stance. That would speak more to the character's optimism and idealism to me.

It may seem like I was a bit harsh on the movie, but I want to be clear- I still really enjoyed it. I'm being a bit critical because I went in with VERY high expectations and I think the movie deserves a fair objective assessment, because it's still good enough to hold up under it.

I would agree though shauner, I'm probably more invested in the MCU at this point, especially with the Russos directing Infinity War. And Dr. Strange looks really wild and cool.

"I put my faith in people, in individuals" (or something like that)

That quote rang like a church bell after Superman's appalling "No man stays good in this world" idiocy.

Ha, yes it did. That was a great line.

 

[shauner111]

I couldn't believe they nailed it with the amount of characters they had to juggle. Everyone tried to defend Whedon's super mediocre Age of Ultron like "oh he had so many characters to juggle!". No excuses now! Jonathan Nolan said once that it doesn't matter how many characters you have. He was right.

Im so over the moon happy that Whedon is gone and the Russo's are taking care of it. All i wanted was Spider-Man involved in the Avengers and good filmmakers who can be as a serious as anything one minute, then make you laugh your ass off for 2 minutes straight 5 minutes later. With action that doesn't look like a video game the whole time. Ultron committed this sin, as did Dawn of Justice.

Civil War is not a masterpiece. But it's pretty close.

Tacit Ronin, mannn, that letter just does it for me it's the palate cleanser after that Superman/Batman dialogue.

Batlobster, yeah i know what you mean. Cap was a bit frustrating at certain points in the film, but he kept winning me back everytime i dipped too far to Tony's side. Which is what i loved about the writing. Every character had a point.

My god, Chadwick Boseman was phenomenal!

 

[Tacit Ronin]

What did you guys thing of Zemo? People are calling him another bland Marvel villain. But I thought he was the most interesting villain they had since Loki in Thor (not a high bar admittedly).

He had a simple but genuine motive with real conviction that tied seamlessly with the movie's theme of consequences.

 

[Greens]

Zemo didn't really impress me, but I don't think he hurt the film either.

 

[BatLobster]

Chadwick Boseman was so, so good.

And yeah, I have to agree- even though the high shutter speed and shaky cam style aren't my thing, I'll still gladly take it over video-gamey action.

Another thing I have to add is that going into it, I was worried about all the comments about Spidey looking too CG. It honestly didn't bother me, it seemed pretty much on par with how it's been in the past. Granted, ASM2 did some amazing stuff with CG Spidey, with the cloth rippling in the wind and all that, but he was moving so fast in this that my eye never really had too much of a chance to focus on whether the CG was good or not.

What did you guys thing of Zemo? People are calling him another bland Marvel villain. But I thought he was the most interesting villain they had since Loki in Thor (not a high bar admittedly).

He had a simple but genuine motive with real conviction that tied seamlessly with the movie's theme of consequences.

Yeah, he did his job. The fact that he was a simple, generic villain actually helped the film in this case, since it kept the central conflict focused on the heroes without having to a give him more screentime or an overly convoluted plan.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Yikes. X-men reviews are not looking good. Siiiingeeeeer.

 

[BatLobster]

Ruh oh. Lifting the embargo early may not have been a smart play after all.

 

[shauner111]

Im not surprised. The trailers have been absolutely terrible.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Looks like the flood of destruction porn climaxes that started with Transformers 2, and continued to heedless abandon by Bay, Snyder and Marvel has reached a tipping point.

Hollywood has got to STOP with the destruction porn climaxes. Use Civil War as your new third act template if you have to. Just STOP.

 

[The Joker]

Oh no! I'll be so crushed if Apocalypse sucks. Singer and a great cast. All the ingredients are there. I hope the reviews pick up.

 

[shauner111]

Ehhhh about the cast. None of them look very good in the trailers, acting wise, other than Fassbender. It really looks like another disaster movie, destruction porn finale. I'm so over that right now. If i see another building fall or a plane/superhero being thrown into one, i will literally get up and go for the longest pee ever. To the point of no return.