The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 8

[Chip Chipperson]

A long time coming for WB

 

[The Joker]

It's about time they got one right. I hope this is the turn around for this franchise, JL not withstanding as it's bound to be weak. If Gadot is as good as they say, I'll be happy to eat crow about the impression I was getting from her in the trailers.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Anyone find it amusing that certain quarters are trying to undermine Patty's achievement by constantly emphasizing that Zack Snyder wrote the whole thing (he didn't) and was responsible for the casting of Gadot (so what?).

Completely shameless. Let it not be silenced, the DCEU was saved by a woman.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I'm just happy that we finally got a winner on our hands, I won't add fuel to that fire

 

[shauner111]

I put the responsibility on the shoulder of Patty Jenkins and WB if it's good or bad. I still have a feeling the critics are praising it just because it's better than the other DCEU movies, which aren't hard to beat. And i'm sorry but it could also be because everyone in that business is goddamn PC with everything lately, a female fronted superhero movie may get more praise right now than it should. Hey, i'm hoping that's not the case. I'm ready to judge it for what it is. I hope it's a good movie. But i'm not going to assume it's good because Rotten Tomatoes gives it 96 percent. I'll see for myself. Could be a great female centric film...hope so. But is that the truth, or is everyone praising it too much for "reasons".

It's like the oscars now. If you have a good film like Moonlight and a good film like La La Land (or anything else), the Academy will take the movie with the black cast that's centered around a homosexual character. This wouldn't happen a few years ago. I'm happy Moonlight won because it's good but there were a few films that were just as good. But why did it win over the others? Politics. Hidden Figures on the other hand was bad IMO, but it was in the race because of politics. The critics COULD be doing the same for Wonder Woman. Just because a woman is the lead doesn't mean it deserves awards and good scores. Hopefully they genuinely think it's a good movie and Gadot actually kicks ass.

 

[The Shape]

That is kind of amusing and also ridiculous, because this seems like a home run for Patty Jenkins and I'm sure she deserves all the credit in the world if that is the case. However, I've also seen people trying to undermine Zack Snyder's involvement in the film by suggesting that the film turned out great because Snyder wasn't involved or that he had no role in making the film.

Realistically, while he obviously didn't write the screenplay, Snyder did have a hand in crafting the story and has received a "Story by" credit (alongside the actual screenwriter). He and his wife are also listed as producers, so make of that what you will.

As for saying "So what?" in response to the fact that Snyder casting Gadot, what do you mean? It seems Gadot is receiving a lot of praise in the role and most reviews have stated that she makes for an excellent/compelling Wonder Woman. The success of a film like this greatly hinges on the central/titular character and star of the film, so if Gal Gadot really is great and a shining light within the film, then Snyder does deserve some credit for making a good pick and choosing a great Wonder Woman for the DCEU and also for her own solo film.

Credit should be given where credit is due all around, IMO.

 

[shauner111]

I forgot Snyder had a story credit. Hey, if i think it's a good story, i'll applaud Zack.

 

[The Joker]

I personally think Snyder deserves little credit for casting Gadot, because he wasn't able to wrangle a decent performance out of her in BvS. She was wooden as a plank in that. Considering she has very little acting experience, most of us were not surprised. It took a director with talent for directing actors and getting good performances out of them to do that. It's like someone found a rough piece of wood, and someone else carved it into something beautiful.

Snyder's hand in the story could have been nothing more than a bare basic idea that was fleshed out and given depth and nuance by other writers.

Snyder's history with this franchise sucks, that's why people are reluctant to give him credit for any involvement. It was probably bare minimum with no real contributions to the final quality of the movie.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

As for saying "So what?" in response to the fact that Snyder casting Gadot, what do you mean? It seems Gadot is receiving a lot of praise in the role and most reviews have stated that she makes for an excellent/compelling Wonder Woman. The success of a film like this greatly hinges on the central/titular character and star of the film, so if Gal Gadot really is great and a shining light within the film, then Snyder does deserve some credit for making a good pick and choosing a great Wonder Woman for the DCEU and also for her own solo film.

Credit should be given where credit is due all around, IMO.

Because Jenkins directed Gal Gadot.

Maybe we should give Bryan Singer credit for Jackman's performance in Logan.

He cast him after all.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I am sure Snyder is responsible for Wonder Woman's screenplay being good about as much as Goyer was responsible for TDK's. Not very much.

 

[shauner111]

As for saying "So what?" in response to the fact that Snyder casting Gadot, what do you mean? It seems Gadot is receiving a lot of praise in the role and most reviews have stated that she makes for an excellent/compelling Wonder Woman. The success of a film like this greatly hinges on the central/titular character and star of the film, so if Gal Gadot really is great and a shining light within the film, then Snyder does deserve some credit for making a good pick and choosing a great Wonder Woman for the DCEU and also for her own solo film.

Credit should be given where credit is due all around, IMO.

LOL no.

 

[DoomRulz]

Completely shameless. Let it not be silenced, the DCEU was saved by a woman.

No, the DCEU was saved by a fantastic movie that just happened to be directed by a woman. That the director is female is neither here nor there. Patty Jenkins is competent because she's talented, not because she's female.

I realize I sound sour, but I'm honestly sick of people spinning the film's achievements (now and future, no doubt) as a result of feminine leadership. Don't reduce the people behind the film to their genitals.

 

[The Shape]

Because Jenkins directed Gal Gadot.

Maybe we should give Bryan Singer credit for Jackman's performance in Logan.

He cast him after all.

I never said Snyder should be credited for Gadot's performance. That credit belongs to Gadot and Jenkins. However, it's a little odd that you seem unwilling to accept the fact that Snyder chose Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman, and are unwilling to give him any credit for originally doing so. If things were different, there could be a different actress in the role who may have played the role differently and might not be receiving this kind of praise.

You really wouldn't give Singer any credit for casting Jackman as Wolverine, who went on to becoming one of the most beloved and popular love action superhero characters? No credit to Favreu and his team for originally enlisting RDJ as Iron Man, who went on to give great performances in other films under different directors?

All I'm saying is that if a director casts an actor in a role who winds up successfully performing as the same character in other films, some level of credit should be given to them for originally doing so, and I'm certainly not suggesting they deserve ALL the credit for whatever happens in the future with those actors/characters. I don't think this is such a wild, unreasonable, or ridiculous concept.

 

[Shikamaru]

It's possible Snyder saw something in Gadot the rest didn't, but if he did he never managed to bring that out of her in BvS. The difference is that Favreau and Singer brought out great performances from Downey and Jackman to begin with. Whereas with Zack we can't really be sure.

I will say one fantastic casting on Snyder's part was Henry Cavill. I liked him in MoS, but thought he needed a better script. Later I saw him Man from UNCLE and he blew me away. And yet in BvS, he came off as wooden as you could get. I don't know how they managed to just shut off his charisma like that.

 

[flickchick85]

I don't know how they managed to just shut off his charisma like that.

I feel like they must be instructing him to look scowl-y and intimidating when playing Supes instead of whatever he would naturally do, because there's nothing natural about the way he's playing it, imo.

 

[The Shape]

It's possible Snyder saw something in Gadot the rest didn't, but if he did he never managed to bring that out of her in BvS. The difference is that Favreau and Singer brought out great performances from Downey and Jackman to begin with. Whereas with Zack we can't really be sure.

I will say one fantastic casting on Snyder's part was Henry Cavill. I liked him in MoS, but thought he needed a better script. Later I saw him Man from UNCLE and he blew me away. And yet in BvS, he came off as wooden as you could get. I don't know how they managed to just shut off his charisma like that.

Regarding Gadot, we all know her role in BVS was ultimately a glorified cameo. However great of an actress she may me, she never really had the chance to show her chops in BVS, partially because the role didn't demand the kind of performance or range of emotions we'll likely see from her as a lead character going through various trials and tribulations with a fully fleshed out character arc.

My original point was that, regardless of how one might feel about Snyder's direction or Gadot's performance in BVS, Snyder is still inherently responsible for casting the actress who (based on what we're hearing) may make for an excellent and well-cast Wonder Woman in this film and possibly for years to come. It doesn't require anyone to praise Zack Snyder in order to credit him for this.

 

[The Joker]

No, don't buy that. It's about quality not quantity. She never even gave any hints of a fantastic WW performance in any of her scenes. She had more than enough of them to show that. It was a case of bad directing, not limited material, IMO.

It takes some bad directing to make Cavill dry and charmless as Superman.

 

[Brother Jack]

I'm no fan of Snyder but he has a good track record with casting, with some glaring exceptions.

 

[BatLobster]

Re: the whole "PC" thing,

I think it's fair to say that a female-lead superhero movie could very well be legitimately refreshing in part for that very reason. Not for SJW reasons, but simply because it's something different for the genre. Sure, we've seen female superheroes on screen before, but never with this scale for a character this iconic, getting the classic Donner-inspired origin story. That is pretty cool and exciting, honestly. And I strongly disliked Ghostbusters 2016, so I would never praise a film on that basis alone-- it has to be good.

But if Wonder Woman basically ends up feeling somewhat like an upper tier Marvel film, only with better cinematography and score, I think I'd probably walk away satisfied. I'm not expecting a game-changer, I think we all know the movie will play on some very tried and true superhero origin/fish out of water tropes, and will end with a big CG Act 3 battle. I just hope the movie gets me emotionally invested, that's the main thing I'm looking for. I want a reason to care about the DCEU, or at least one part of it.

 

[DoomRulz]

Re: the whole "PC" thing,

I think it's fair to say that a female-lead superhero movie could very well be legitimately refreshing in part for that very reason. Not for SJW reasons, but simply because it's something different for the genre. Sure, we've seen female superheroes on screen before, but never with this scale for a character this iconic, getting the classic Donner-inspired origin story. That is pretty cool and exciting, honestly. And I strongly disliked Ghostbusters 2016, so I would never praise a film on that basis alone-- it has to be good.

This is just my opinion, but I would attribute that to the fact that there aren't any female supers that command the level of respect or pop culture influence Wonder Woman does. Really, who else is in her league? Catwoman? Batgirl? Jean Grey?

 

[BatLobster]

This is just my opinion, but I would attribute that to the fact that there aren't any female supers that command the level of respect or pop culture influence Wonder Woman does. Really, who else is in her league? Catwoman? Batgirl? Jean Grey?

I think that's a fair point, but it also just highlights the fact that Wonder Woman has been around for 75 years and we're only getting her first live action feature film now.

 

[DoomRulz]

Well, she did have a TV show that's fondly remembered for what it's worth. But yes, I do think it's weird she never had a movie prior to now, now that I think about it. Was there ever talk of doing one? I mean, before someone says it never happened because of institutional sexism, don't forget, we didn't get a Spider-Man movie until 2000, despite several attempts previously.

 

[StormC]

This is just my opinion, but I would attribute that to the fact that there aren't any female supers that command the level of respect or pop culture influence Wonder Woman does. Really, who else is in her league? Catwoman? Batgirl? Jean Grey?

Because historically the deck has been stacked against women, causing a self-perpetuating cycle. If you can't realize that, that's your own willful blindness.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

It's possible Snyder saw something in Gadot the rest didn't, but if he did he never managed to bring that out of her in BvS. The difference is that Favreau and Singer brought out great performances from Downey and Jackman to begin with. Whereas with Zack we can't really be sure.

I will say one fantastic casting on Snyder's part was Henry Cavill. I liked him in MoS, but thought he needed a better script. Later I saw him Man from UNCLE and he blew me away. And yet in BvS, he came off as wooden as you could get. I don't know how they managed to just shut off his charisma like that.

Agreed with the bolded, really liked Cavill in Man from UNCLE myself. While I thought he was solid in MoS, I just think he's been given way too little to work with, not to mention too little to say. Hope we get to see him be his natural, charismatic self at least once as Supes - speaking of which, has the director for the MoS sequel been announced?

 

[The Shape]

Hope we get to see him be his natural, charismatic self at least once as Supes - speaking of which, has the director for the MoS sequel been announced?

Yep. Uwe Boll.