The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge

[BatLobster]

I'll reserve judgment on that until I see the movie, but yeah- I agree.

The ending of TDK Trailer 1- "Let's put a smile on that face-ah...eeeheeeahahahahaha" as it faded to black.

Literally did sent a chill down my spine every time I watched it.

 

[Travesty]

I dunno, I think Leto is creepier, so far.

 

[The Joker]

Yeah there's no chills, no terror vibes, no creepy factor off Leto's Joker so far. Lines like "I'm going to hurt you really really badly", combined with tattoos and grills which are blatant trying too hard type attempts to try and look scarier just have the opposite effect on me. It just looks like someone trying to be creepy and failing. I mean come on things like having damaged written on your head. I just can't take that seriously.

Whereas when Joker says "Lets put a smile on that face" you know the implication of him saying that is something more terrifying, and that's what's so scary. And that laugh that follows. Chilling.

 

[BatLobster]

Leto feels creepy in more of a Nicholson-ish sort of way to me. Which, to be fair, Nicholson scared the **** out of me when I was a kid.

 

[shauner111]

Leto looks creepy as hell in some shots, other shots he looks very fancy like Nicholson, which is weird because of those tattoos.

Leto's creepy in that black tux. His line delivery so far? More fun than creepy. But his acting looks great. I really got a Heath vibe when he said to that dude that he wants to show him his toys. Reminded me of Heath and the chubby fake-batman guy. Man Suicide Squad looks good though.

Affleck well, I liked the Bruce clip with Alfred. I liked Ben but i admit he went a little too over the top when he said AB-SOLUTELY the same way he said..well..the rest of his line. It will probably work much better when we see the entire heated conversation.

I saw the 30 second trailer thingy for Batman v Superman, i hate it. I can't stand Cavill in that scene. He's so f'n bad it makes me laugh every time. How Snyder could have let that scene in the final edit, and actually make it a huge clip to show the public over and over before the movie is out...it's baffling. George Lucas would be proud. Maybe Lucas subbed for Zack that day, for 1 scene. Holy s**t maybe George was in the editing room.

 

[Slade W]

From what I have seen so far, Leto's Joker is scarier than Ledgers. That seems to be the one of the main descriptions I have heard people use in regards to him. I never really heard people describe Ledgers Joker as scary anywhere near as much.

 

[Kane52630]

Hopefully we can all agree on Killer Croc being on point...right?

 

[Slade W]

I think he looks pretty good.

 

[shauner111]

I think Heath's Joker was scary in the marketing before the movie dropped. And those scenes played out in the final film and guess what? We seen it before, the thrill wore off a bit. Leto has potential to be more terrifying than Ledger, anybody who says different, even if they don't like Jared's look, is riding Heath a little too hard.

I can see myself getting used to the grills because Batman probably knocked his teeth out, and if the guy has a full mouth of blood, laughing his ass off...yeah it's going to look creepy even if the promo shots look ******ed. The tattoo's are fine, just not on the head. Im much more excited for his Joker now, especially after seeing that one shot of him in the car next to the window. It's a small thing, but for some reason i just LOVED that frustrated reaction he has. Leto is a great actor who commits hard to the role, and i have no doubt he will be as awesome as Heath, better than Jack.

The look is not exactly how i would design it, but the fancy look that we laugh at (Roxbury!) could work wonders for this version. He's classy when he needs to be, he's punkish when he needs to be, he's diverse, he's UNPREDICTABLE. Not only in his behavior, like Heath, but in his style and approach too. And THAT is what will separate him from Ledger and Nicholson. He's like an amalgamation.

 

[Travesty]

Hopefully we can all agree on Killer Croc being on point...right?

Croc looks badass.

 

[shauner111]

The actual Squad looks great. All of them.

 

[Greens]

I'll reserve judgment on that until I see the movie, but yeah- I agree.

The ending of TDK Trailer 1- "Let's put a smile on that face-ah...eeeheeeahahahahaha" as it faded to black.

Literally did sent a chill down my spine every time I watched it.

That was an amazing trailer in general.

The thing is, The Dark Knight was all about Batman vs. Joker. This movie is a big ensemble piece. In a way that's good because they'll be less tempted to spoil a lot of great Joker moments before the movie comes out.

I saw the 30 second trailer thingy for Batman v Superman, i hate it. I can't stand Cavill in that scene. He's so f'n bad it makes me laugh every time. How Snyder could have let that scene in the final edit, and actually make it a huge clip to show the public over and over before the movie is out...it's baffling. George Lucas would be proud. Maybe Lucas subbed for Zack that day, for 1 scene. Holy s**t maybe George was in the editing room.

Are you talking about the "the Bat is dead" scene? I agree, that scene is off but I don't think it's because of Cavill's performance. It's because those last couple of lines were obviously recorded after the fact. The ADR is very noticeable and it creates an awkward experience where the lines don't match the scene very well.

 

[BatLobster]

Croc looks about as good as a live action Croc could have looked for sure.

I think Heath's Joker was scary in the marketing before the movie dropped. And those scenes played out in the final film and guess what? We seen it before, the thrill wore off a bit. Leto has potential to be more terrifying than Ledger, anybody who says different, even if they don't like Jared's look, is riding Heath a little too hard.

I sort of agree, but at the same time I think they smartly saved most of Ledger's actual takes for the movie. If you look back on the marketing, it's almost all alternate takes of lines. So it still felt fresh, imo.

With Ledger, I think the actual writing of the character...his philosophy and his worldview is what made him terrifying. Heath's performance wasn't necessarily 'scary' all the time, but it just meshed so perfectly with the writing and was such a complete characterization that the sum total of it all was pretty terrifying. He definitely had his blood curdling moments too- like the Brian Douglass scene.

What gets me excited for Leto though, is with Ledger a lot of his best stuff was not in the trailers at all so I'm guessing the same will be true for Leto too.

 

[Greens]

I sort of agree, but at the same time I think they smartly saved most of Ledger's actual takes for the movie. If you look back on the marketing, it's almost all alternate takes of lines. So it still felt fresh, imo.

With Ledger, I think the actual writing of the character...his philosophy and his worldview is what made him terrifying. Heath's performance wasn't necessarily 'scary' all the time, but it just meshed so perfectly with the writing and was such a complete characterization that the sum total of it all was pretty terrifying. He definitely had his blood curdling moments too- like the Brian Douglass scene.

What gets me excited for Leto though, is with Ledger a lot of his best stuff was not in the trailers at all so I'm guessing the same will be true for Leto too.

The writing definitely helped to put Ledger's Joker over the top.

One of the best, if not the best, scenes in comic book movie history is the interrogation scene in TDK. The trailers only showed us very quick snippets of that, with one alternate Ledger line. I hope WB does the same with Suicide Squad. We already know there's going to be a scene with Harleen Quinzel and Joker sitting at a table together. That could be this movie's interrogation scene. We know that there's going to be a confrontation between Batman and Joker. How amazing would it be if they saved all of that for the final movie?

So far, they're on the right track. The latest trailer was perfect in that it showed us quick snippets of a lot of scenes, which is what a trailer should do.

 

[The Shape]

From what I have seen so far, Leto's Joker is scarier than Ledgers. That seems to be the one of the main descriptions I have heard people use in regards to him. I never really heard people describe Ledgers Joker as scary anywhere near as much.

Maybe it's just me, but I never think of this in terms of a competition of which Joker is better, scarier, creepier, etc. I don't care which is "more this" or "more that".

To me, Ledger's Joker was scary/creepy/funny/evil/badass in his own ways, both due to his appearance, performance, and the writing/direction of his film.

In terms of Leto's Joker, he looks to be scary/creepy/funny/evil/badass in his own ways for all the same reasons -- and we can throw Nicholson's Joker into the same boat, as well. Better yet, they all essentially mesh and fit in with their respective "worlds", and they all seem to capture the essence of The Joker pretty well albeit sometimes in different manifestations. I've said it before, but I think we've been really lucky with the live action Jokers we've had over the years up until now.

There's also something to be said for the way each of these Jokers are marketed and presented to audiences. For the TDK campaign, the trailers amazingly hyped up The Joker as a major, formidable, menacing threat for Batman. We got the sense that The Joker was a villain that Bale's Batman had never come across before, and that he posed a serious threat to both Batman and Gotham. Whereas with Suicide Squad, The Joker seems to have more of a role as the "wildcard" in the film. They're not marketing him as the big, menacing threat, which is why we've seen some more "out there", gleeful images of him.

 

[Greens]

In terms of Leto's Joker, he looks to be scary/creepy/funny/evil/badass in his own ways for all the same reasons -- and we can throw Nicholson's Joker into the same boat, as well. Better yet, they all essentially mesh and fit in with their respective "worlds", and they all seem to capture the essence of The Joker pretty well albeit sometimes in different manifestations. I've said it before, but I think we've been really lucky with the live action Jokers we've had over the years up until now.

Ain't that the truth. Jack the mobster and Heath the terrorist reflected the times the movies were set in (although Batman's timeframe was ambiguous, it heavily leaned on the 30's mobster style). Suicide Squad looks to be an eclectic, chaotic and colorful movie with in-your-face imagery. Leto's joker embodies that so far.

 

[BatLobster]

All definitely good points Shape. I think it's just fanboy nature, and human nature really- to compare things, even when it's futile.

I figure The Joker is probably a dream role for an actor where they're allowed to really just cut loose and go all out- so it's not surprising that it's attracted so many big talent actors. But yes, we've definitely been lucky as fans. Cesar Romero also deserves major props for what he brought to the live action legacy of the character.

 

[shauner111]

Ledger shed the skin that Nicholson wore. Leto will probably shed the skin that Ledger wore. And it goes on. There will be fans that think Leto is the greatest to play Joker when his time is up and the next guy will have a massive challenge ahead of him with a ton of doubters and nitpickers like us. And guess what? That guy will PROBABLY knock it out of the park too and fascinate everybody.

One thing i know for sure, this role may become the biggest villain role of all-time, where every actor is incredible, every challenge is a tall mountain to climb/overcome, and every casting decision will be incredibly careful and well thought out.

 

[The Shape]

And of course, it's only natural to compare and discuss the differences between versions of the same character. That's part of the fun of having different universes and interpretations.

But strangely enough, despite being based on the same character, I'll often find it hard if not impossible to make an apples-to-apples comparison of who's better, scarier, more formidable etc. Context is everything, and each version is trying to accomplish different things and come off a certain way. Different presentations, motivations, and actions are at play with each version. What worked for one version will not work for the next, and vice verse. I feel the same way about making Bale/Affleck comparisons.

It sounds weird, but despite these actors all playing the same character from the comics, they're really NOT playing the same character at the end of the day, if that makes sense.

 

[shauner111]

Yeah all three versions seem so different.

 

[The Joker]

From what I have seen so far, Leto's Joker is scarier than Ledgers.

In what way? Be very specific please. If your answer is just he looks scarier then no need to reply as I don't agree with that at all for the aforementioned reasons. Plus I think it's shallow reasoning. Danny DeVito's Penguin looks creepier than Hannibal Lecter, but I know which one I find more intimidating and it's not Pengy.

That seems to be the one of the main descriptions I have heard people use in regards to him.

You mean mainly fanboys and Ayer have been calling him that. I'm not saying Ayer is wrong since he has seen the whole performance, but it's only natural the director will pump up his own characters. I can only judge on what we've seen.

The 5 seconds of Ledger's Joker saying "Look at me.....LOOK AT ME!!!!" to the copycat alone was more intense and creepy than anything we've seen of Leto so far for my money.

I never really heard people describe Ledgers Joker as scary anywhere near as much.

No offense but you must have been doing very selective reading.

I think it's just fanboy nature, and human nature really- to compare things, even when it's futile.

I don't think it's fanboy nature, nor is it futile. Why is it futile to compare how different actors portrayed the same character? It's valid and natural to compare such a thing to see how each approached a character. You know Leto's Joker is going to be compared a thousand times over to Ledger's when SS comes out, and not just by fanboys.

It would be more accurate to say it's futile when people compare different villains, like how Hardy's Bane was often criticized for not being as great as Ledger's Joker. Even the critics were like "Hardy's Bane is no Ledger's Joker" implying he should have been when he's playing Bane not the Joker.

Or if someone compares a tongue in cheek approach of a character to a serious one, like if someone compared Adam West to Bale. Then it would be futile, too. But comparing two serious approaches to the same character, I don't see anything wrong with that. Comparing interpretations.

 

[BatLobster]

Well sure, actors playing the same character are bound to be compared, understandably so.

And there's definitely nothing wrong with that either, but I also see what Shape is saying too...they're going to be different interpretations in very different universes that allow for different things. Not to mention, each actor that plays the role kind of 'marks their territory' in some ways and the next actor has to find a new space to make it their own in.

In a way I think part of what made Heath did so great was, originally it was always all about "nobody will ever top Jack", etc. It was kind of the elephant in the room before anyone was even cast, but he made the role his own to the point that it almost shattered all comparisons because he just took it in such a different direction but still felt so iconic and quintessentially "Joker". Not to say that there weren't comparisons, but I remember just walking out of TDK thinking Ledger was an incredible Joker. I wasn't even thinking about Nicholson at all.

 

[BH/HHH]

I think live action they've always nailed the Joker, Romero, Nicholson, Ledger and Leto (looks to be aswell). The one thing I can say for each Joker is each version was perfect for their respective Batman.

 

[The Shape]

I think live action they've always nailed the Joker, Romero, Nicholson, Ledger and Leto (looks to be aswell). The one thing I can say for each Joker is each version was perfect for their respective Batman.

Yeah. In this case, that's also very important.

 

[The Joker]

Well sure, actors playing the same character are bound to be compared, understandably so.

And there's definitely nothing wrong with that either, but I also see what Shape is saying too...they're going to be different interpretations in very different universes that allow for different things. Not to mention, each actor that plays the role kind of 'marks their territory' in some ways and the next actor has to find a new space to make it their own.

In a way I think part of what made Heath did so great was, originally it was always all about "nobody will ever top Jack", etc. It was kind of the elephant in the room before anyone was even cast, but he made the role his own to the point that it almost shattered all comparisons because he just took it in such a different direction but still felt so iconic and quintessentially "Joker". Not to say that there weren't comparisons, but I remember just walking out of TDK thinking Ledger was an incredible Joker. I wasn't even thinking about Nicholson at all.

Yeah of course they're different interpretations, that's why they're compared to see which one measures up better against the other. Like how people compare the Batman movie interpretations and talk about which one had a better handle of the character, which one handled Bruce Wayne better, the detective aspects better, the costume, gadgets etc etc. Batman is Batman, and approaching it in different ways is still valid for comparison to see which one approached it better, or which one did you prefer, or which one handled certain aspects better than others etc.

When I came out of Batman Begins in 2005, one of the first things I was struck by was how Batman was front and center of his own movie. An actual developed character whom they explored and used to drive the story. He had dimension, pathos, they got inside his head. How Gordon had an actual personality, a real working friendship with Batman, and a prominent role in the story etc. Things I was not used to seeing in the Batman movies that had come before. Things I think are necessary for a truly great Batman interpretation. Things you can't help but notice and compare to previous interpretations.