BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

[floreairfoot]

I immediately thought two things until I saw the "all ethnicities" bit. First, with "physicality" and that she must be "tall" obviously Wonder Womant:, after reading "all ethnicities", it's obviously Selina Kyle.

I'm sorry, what?

Can anyone name a single time that Selina Kyle has been anything but Caucasian? The answer is no.

 

[Sharkboy]

I'm sorry, what?

Can anyone name a single time that Selina Kyle has been anything but Caucasian? The answer is no.

Year One.

EDIT: Did Eartha Kitt play Selina as well?...her name was never really revealed.

 

[floreairfoot]

Year One.

what?

She had a buzz-cut like the fresh prince, but that was just some hardcore 80's styling, she was defiantly still white.

EDIT: Did Eartha Kitt play Selina as well?...her name was never really revealed.

Yea, that wasn't Selina Kyle and neither was the 2004 abortion.

 

[smallville fan]

I'm sorry, what?

Can anyone name a single time that Selina Kyle has been anything but Caucasian? The answer is no.

I don't think ethnicity's really that much of an issue with this Catwoman, they switch the ethnicity up like that all the time with many other characters. It's probably going to be like that, just to differentiate her from Anne Hathaway's Catwoman?

 

[Sharkboy]

what?

Please tell me you've read Frank Miller's Year One, that the most basic comic book nerd training, if you haven't...what are you even doing wasting your time here instead of reading it?

EDIT: sorry didn't see your edit, no I'm pretty sure you are over thinking it, she was drawn as black despite the later retcon.

Yea, that wasn't Selina Kyle and neither was the 2004 abortion.

Well she could have been, I'm not sure they ever mentioned her name, I could be wrong on that, and no Halle played someone by the name of Patience Price I believe.

 

[floreairfoot]

Please tell me you've read Frank Miller's Year One, that the most basic comic book nerd training, if you haven't...what are you even doing wasting your time here instead of reading it?

Right... so I have, many a time over.

Was that panel of Selina in a window at night supposed to convince me she's black?

 

[Sharkboy]

I don't think ethnicity's really that much of an issue with this Catwoman, they switch the ethnicity up like that all the time with many other characters. It's probably going to be like that, just to differentiate her from Anne Hathaway's Catwoman?

Yep, There's nothing inherently white about Catwoman, she could conceivably be any ethnicity, as long as she's sexy and catlike. I would gladly welcome another black Catwoman.

 

[Kane52630]

Hey guys what's u...

 

[Sharkboy]

Right... so I have, many a time over.

Was that panel of Selina in a window at night supposed to convince me she's black?

Black Selina Kyle.

 

[smallville fan]

Yep, There's nothing inherently white about Catwoman, she could conceivably be any ethnicity, as long as she's sexy and catlike. I would gladly welcome another black Catwoman.

Exactly.

EDIT:

Is Year One still in continuity with The Dark Knight Returns? Then if so, Selina couldn't be black?

 

[floreairfoot]

Black Selina Kyle.

I think you're getting thrown off by lighting. I see a white woman, and she was voiced by Eliza Dushku.

She had the exact same skin color as Bruce.

But lets not keep the discussion going, cause the next page is going to be filled with gifs about us not staying on topic.

I'm a major Catwoman fan, so self-control is difficult.

 

[Sharkboy]

I think you're getting thrown off by lighting. I see a white woman, and she was voiced by Eliza Dushku.

She had the exact same skin color as Bruce.

But lets not keep the discussion going, cause the next page is going to be filled with gifs about us not staying on topic.

No, I'm seriously not, nor am i the only one that's ever seen this, it's just basic knowledge. She's black in every single panel in that comic and every single frame of that movie, from her hair to her clothing it's african american, or hispanic or even mixed but it's definitely not full on Caucasian. You are stretching massively to think that she's a white woman who dresses african american who just happens to have dark skin because of the lighting in every shot rather than just taking the simplest and more accepted answer of she's black.

Anyway it doesn't matter because she could easily be cast as hispanic or black or asian anyday and it would be fine as long as it was a great actress and a great role.

EDIT: oh and we are completely on topic, we are discussing a character that might be in the movie.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

As far as a MoS sequel goes, I once imagined adult Lana Lang or Mercy Graves as far as new female characters, especially since either one could be tied into Luthor. Talia was also involved in some Lex Luthor storylines, but possibly too soon to revisit that. A tall woman possessing physicality could be Diana Prince. We know Hollywood typically has no qualms changing the ethnicities of characters so open to all doesn't rule anybody out.

-Late 20s
-Tall
-Possessing physicality
-Any ethnicity

Does it even say "Batman's girlfriend" or equivalent on the casting breakdown? First Sneider mentioned it the other day and now Eh Maybe did as well. What's the deal?

 

[manofsteel4life]

You think well see Cadmus in this universe?

 

[floreairfoot]

No, I'm seriously not, nor am i the only one that's ever seen this, it's just basic knowledge. She's black in every single panel in that comic and every single frame of that movie, from her hair to her clothing it's african american, or hispanic or even mixed but it's definitely not full on Caucasian. You are stretching massively to think that she's a white woman who dresses african american who just happens to have dark skin because of the lighting in every shot rather than just taking the simplest and more accepted answer of she's black.

EDIT: oh and we are completely on topic, we are discussing a character that might be in the movie.

If you see/imagine her as a black or mixed race woman, that's absolutely fine, I've just never heard anyone else say it. We'll have to disagree.

 

[TheBat812]

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that she's black in Year One.


And I'm not even a huge comic reader, I've only read the most popular Batman comics.

 

[Jekecy]

I'm going to have be in the camp that's not seeing how it's an explicitly black Selina. I think the unconventional non-pasty skin tone, combined with the short black hair are evoking imagery that clashes with that of a "white woman". Hence the immediate connection with a black woman. Perhaps. I can only presume.

We can take a look at this Y1 clip (I know it's not the book, but it's practically a translation):



Selina's skin tone in the movie is barely different from anyone in that scene. Especially Barbara Gordon. Who we unequivocally assume is white.

Plus, consider Y1 has been canon for over 20 years and not since then has Selina ever been portrayed as anything but white in any subsequent story. Isn't that indicative at the very least?

 

[Loki882]

No, Year One Selina look Black to me as well, both in the comic and the movie. I thought that was obvious, but I guess not.

 

[Tempest]

Why the need to keep her white in the first place? If all of you who are bent out of shape about this are as deeply concerned about other characters represented in film, then that's great and fine. But if you only get upset about white characters being cast as a different race, I suggest you check yourself, and ask if this is about character integrity, or just not wanting someone ethnic in the roles you like so much.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I am only going to add these two things. If one wants to see Selina in Year One as black or mulatto (Zod I hope I am using that term right) OK, that's your prerogative. I myself am much more open to recasting comic characters race these days than I was when I was younger. But let me just ask all reading this, does Frank Miller really seem like the kind of comic book creator who WOULD racially recast a character like Selina Kyle/Catwoman? Has he shown any kind of sympathies to doing that sort of thing at all? Just saying.

I think all of us should get used to comic book characters being made over in ways that are more reflective of the make up of America in the present/future. This does not mean "out of control political correctness" is the reason behind it. It's actually more likely that good ole free market forces are to blame.

 

[Tempest]

I am only going to add these two things. If one wants to see Selina in Year One as black or mulatto (Zod I hope I am using that term right) OK, that's your prerogative. I myself am much more open to recasting comic characters race these days than I was when I was younger. But let me just ask all reading this, does Frank Miller really seem like the kind of comic book creator who WOULD racially recast a character like Selina Kyle/Catwoman? Has he shown any kind of sympathies to doing that sort of thing at all? Just saying.

I think all of us should get used to comic book characters being made over in ways that are more reflective of the make up of America in the present/future. This does not mean "out of control political correctness" is the reason behind it. It's actually more likely that good ole free market forces are to blame.

Mulatto is not really used any more. It's ok, it's tough to keep up with things. Biracial, multiracial, mixed race, and multi-ethnic are more appropriate.

 

[X Knight]

I always thought Year One Selina was Black.

and nowhere does the casting call itself say it's for Bruce's gf/li.

I'm thinking, if it's an important role, it's Mercy ( hoping ). if it's minor, it will just be some random model Bruce takes to a party as arm candy.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Mulatto is not really used any more. It's ok, it's tough to keep up with things. Biracial, multiracial, mixed race, and multi-ethnic are more appropriate.

Thanks. I am Puerto Rican, but even I can't keep up with all the terms that could be applied and if they are currently in vogue or are considered derisive or what, ect. Latino? Hispanic? Boricua? Puerto Ricano?

Any way, while I just don't think Selina is black in Year One, again mostly cuz Miller is WAY down on the list of comic creators who would do such a thing, I think I am more open to such things these days.

 

[Jekecy]

Why the need to keep her white in the first place? If all of you who are bent out of shape about this are as deeply concerned about other characters represented in film, then that's great and fine. But if you only get upset about white characters being cast as a different race, I suggest you check yourself, and ask if this is about character integrity, or just not wanting someone ethnic in the roles you like so much.

I simply prefer my characters to look like their comic book counterparts. This doesn't have much to do with "white power!" (which i strongly suspect is what you're implying here) as it is retaining as much of the visual elements which compose any given role that has been illustrated for decades.

This includes race, size, sex, physical build, hair length/color, etc. There's no deep reasoning for it and I don't think preference of adaptation should require it. It's an easy enough desire to understand; adaptations are generally better received the closer they are to the source.

I was turned off by the white-washing of Ra's and Bane, but I moved on ultimately. I'll do the same in the future. In the meantime, I don't think it's at all wrong to express one's feelings on the matter. But I do think it's messed up when it's immediately turned into this race war.

 

[Tempest]

Thanks. I am Puerto Rican, but even I can't keep up with all the terms that could be applied and if they are currently in vogue or are considered derisive or what, ect. Latino? Hispanic? Boricua? Puerto Ricano?

Any way, while I just don't think Selina is black in Year One, again mostly cuz Miller is WAY down on the list of comic creators who would do such a thing, I think I am more open to such things these days.

In the long run, I don't think it should matter what color a person's skin is, even if it's a fictional character.

The problem is that people are freaking out over the mere idea of a character being cast with an ethnic person, but I'm not sure if an ethnic character was cast with a white person that they would be that upset.

It's the double-standard that I suspect is hidden under the surface of this argument that bothers me.

Notice what happened with the casting from Avatar: Air Bender? All the characters in the original canon are obviously ethnic, with the bad guy actually having the lightest skin tone, yet Hollywood cast all white people for the good guys, and the only ethnic character was the bad guy.

The point is, unless you get hysterical over every miscast of race in Hollywood, just keep your opinions on racial casting to yourself.