BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - Part 13

[Daywalker89]

ahhh ok kl nice touch, thanks smashlilman.

 

[Krumm]

Yea, it always irritates me when people say that type of destruction never happens in any other Superman franchises.

They kind of got the ideal for people standing around from comics.

I was just reading Superman Unchained #4 and the destruction there is on par with MOS and Unchained didn't have the dramatic build up MOS had to warrant such an event.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Destroy everything that's what I say and start over.

 

[NosfeRomas]

Destroy everything that's what I say and start over.

Nihilists ! You people have nothing to be afraid of.

 

[The Shape]

Yes, but it is fiction based of an established set of rules. Meaning in this world there are no other meta humans except Superman. How can you expect Bats to deal with a threat he has not seen before?

How do you know there are no meta humans? Superman was the first alien to step out into the public eye and reveal himself to the world. Zod's invasion was the first time humans had seen aliens descending from space. That doesn't mean there have no been aliens in "this world" before, or that there haven't been meta humans that Batman has faced or the government has kept secret. Superman kept his abilities hidden from the world for 33 years...it's not a reach that there are other beings who could have done the same.

I'm also not sure what rules you speak of that were established. The main rule that sets this new DC universe apart from Nolan's TDK universe is that super-powered beings can and do exist. Other than that, there were no rules or stipulations set in place that dictate what can and cannot happen in this DC universe.

 

[Superman Earth1]

Yea, it always irritates me when people say that type of destruction never happens in any other Superman franchises.

They kind of got the ideal for people standing around from comics.

Agreed. Destruction and Superman almost goes hand in hand which is why in the comics Superman always implys if he doesn't have anything else to do he stays around to help clean up. But when Superman fights usually you need to clear the area just look at Last Son for an example of Man of Steel type of damage and that was without a world destroyer.

 

[Broseph44]

Sigh, That should/might be expanded on in the BvS film. This whole ' Destruction talk ' really annoys me it happens in every CBM but some people here and the GA keep harping on about it . Get over it ., thats what happens when kryptonians are in town. I tell you what though i was a bit bewildered by people just standing there and watching buildings falling down. In realistic circumstances the city would of been evacuated. there asses would of been long gone.

Yea, it always irritates me when people say that type of destruction never happens in any other Superman franchises.

They kind of got the ideal for people standing around from comics.

Yesssss thank you. The nitpicking of the destruction and Superman "ignoring" others safety is ridiculous/annoying. Most superhero movies this is the case, and it happens all the time in the comics as well.

Take The Incredible Hulk for example. At the end when Bruce is gonna fight Abomination, jumping out of the helicopter. He crash lands transforming into the hulk through the street below. What if he landed on a group of people? The whole fight with him and Abomination at the end is full of destruction and disregard. As well as the military being there contributing as well, just like MOS. The fanboys around here go wayyyyyyyy to crazy over this **** seriously.

 

[BatFan1979]

I NEED A TEASER PHOTO OF BATFLECK RIGHT NOW, DAMN-IT!!! I feel like a junkie needing a fix REALLY badly! I mean,all this speculation and imagining is driving me a bit...well...batty!! Anyone else feel the itch?!

 

[Broseph44]

I NEED A TEASER PHOTO OF BATFLECK RIGHT NOW, DAMN-IT!!! I feel like a junkie needing a fix REALLY badly! I mean,all this speculation and imagining is driving me a bit...well...batty!! Anyone else feel the itch?!

Take it easy. You're not the only one who wants to see him in costume.

 

[BatFan1979]

Take it easy. You're not the only one who wants to see him in costume.

Sorry, I'm calm - kind of lost it a bit there I guess. I just hope it does disappoint too many people.

 

[The Question]

Take The Incredible Hulk for example. At the end when Bruce is gonna fight Abomination, jumping out of the helicopter. He crash lands transforming into the hulk through the street below. What if he landed on a group of people? The whole fight with him and Abomination at the end is full of destruction and disregard. As well as the military being there contributing as well, just like MOS. The fanboys around here go wayyyyyyyy to crazy over this **** seriously.

Well, a few things:

1: The Hulk didn't land on a group of people, whereas thousands of people clearly died in those collapsing buildings in Man of Steel.

2: The Hulk is not Superman. There are very different expectations placed on The Hulk than the ones placed on Superman. For starters, The Hulk isn't really a hero in the classic sense the same way Superman is.

 

[Airwings]

If you say so....to me there is not much of a difference between the two in the end.

Fantasy=Fiction and Fiction=Fantasy until proven otherwise IMO....

Yes it is fantasy as in the meaning: "something we make up in our minds"
But fantasy as a genre, is quite different from sci fi.

 

[Broseph44]

Well, a few things:

1: The Hulk didn't land on a group of people, whereas thousands of people clearly died in those collapsing buildings in Man of Steel.

2: The Hulk is not Superman. There are very different expectations placed on The Hulk than the ones placed on Superman. For starters, The Hulk isn't really a hero in the classic sense the same way Superman is.

Yeah he didn't land on anyone, but who is to say nobody was hurt or killed during the fight? I know Hulk is Not Superman. And Superman has morals where as hulk is just raging etc. But people seem to keep forgetting it was Clark's first time doing all of this. Plus like I said it's really nitpicking come on. This stuff happens in a lot of CB movies and the comics themselves. So why the complaining. It's super powered beings in a human environment, destruction is bound to happen.

 

[Airwings]

I think it may boil down to what Batman villain could pose a threat to Superman? Penquin? Joker? Bane?

Every master mind is a threat. I would like to add Riddler to your list as well.

 

[Fallen Angel]

I think it may boil down to what Batman villain could pose a threat to Superman? Penquin? Joker? Bane?

I don't know why but the Penguin going up again Supes made me laugh. People thinking i've finally gone mad. t:

 

[Superman Earth1]

Well, a few things:

1: The Hulk didn't land on a group of people, whereas thousands of people clearly died in those collapsing buildings in Man of Steel.

2: The Hulk is not Superman. There are very different expectations placed on The Hulk than the ones placed on Superman. For starters, The Hulk isn't really a hero in the classic sense the same way Superman is.

Look I am a huge Superman fan but Man of Steel got it right on what would happen in a battle with Superman. The comics even showcase this a lot of times. Look at Earth One, Last Son, War of the Supermen, Doomsday, For Tomorrow and countless others. People are going to die and Superman may be able to save a few of them but there will usually be a high number of deaths if the person Superman is fighting is that strong.

I think watch catches people off guard is actually seeing it happen instead of just looking at panels it makes it hit home more..

 

[Broseph44]

Look I am a huge Superman fan but Man of Steel got it right on what would happen in a battle with Superman. The comics even showcase this a lot of times. Look at Earth One, Last Son, War of the Supermen, Doomsday, For Tomorrow and countless others. People are going to die and Superman may be able to save a few of them but there will usually be a high number of deaths if the person Superman is fighting is that strong.

I think watch catches people off guard is actually seeing it happen instead of just looking at panels it makes it hit home more..

Yep

 

[The Question]

Yeah he didn't land on anyone, but who is to say nobody was hurt or killed during the fight? I know Hulk is Not Superman. And Superman has morals where as hulk is just raging etc. But people seem to keep forgetting it was Clark's first time doing all of this. Plus like I said it's really nitpicking come on. This stuff happens in a lot of CB movies and the comics themselves. So why the complaining. It's super powered beings in a human environment, destruction is bound to happen.

Yeah, but there's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. I can't speak for the other people, but my problem with the end fight isn't that there's so much destruction. My problem is with the presentation. My problem is that it's so over the top and yet pretty callous about presenting the reality of all of that destruction, and their attempts to humanize it aren't, to me, particularly effective. It revels in the spectacle a little to much and it doesn't pay attention to the human element quite enough. Made worse by the fact that, as soon as Zod dies, it immediately cuts away from Metropolis and doesn't mention the destruction of that day again. It feels very juvenile to me, like a military-obsessed 13 year old boy's idea of what a dramatic climax is. And I, personally, don't like the way that military obsessed 13 year old boys look at the world.

 

[Airwings]

I don't know why but the Penguin going up again Supes made me laugh. People thinking i've finally gone mad. t:

It won't work with a physical fight. Penguin is no muscle mass, but a master mind.
Not even his few tricks and gadgets can help him against Superman. Unless he tries to hypnotize the hero with his umbrella, lol.

No, Penguin should be pulling the strings behind the curtain. Just as Lex do.

 

[Smashlilman]

Well, a few things:

1: The Hulk didn't land on a group of people, whereas thousands of people clearly died in those collapsing buildings in Man of Steel.

2: The Hulk is not Superman. There are very different expectations placed on The Hulk than the ones placed on Superman. For starters, The Hulk isn't really a hero in the classic sense the same way Superman is.

Superman, Hulk, and Thors battle results the same way when they fight city and world busters opposition.

 

[The Question]

Spoiler

... okay?

 

[Superman Earth1]

Yeah, but there's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. I can't speak for the other people, but my problem with the end fight isn't that there's so much destruction. My problem is with the presentation. My problem is that it's so over the top and yet pretty callous about presenting the reality of all of that destruction, and their attempts to humanize it aren't, to me, particularly effective. It revels in the spectacle a little to much and it doesn't pay attention to the human element quite enough. Made worse by the fact that, as soon as Zod dies, it immediately cuts away from Metropolis and doesn't mention the destruction of that day again. It feels very juvenile to me, like a military-obsessed 13 year old boy's idea of what a dramatic climax is. And I, personally, don't like the way that military obsessed 13 year old boys look at the world.

Now I will agree with you here. That they should have shown Superman well Clark walking through the city and looking at all the damage caused by the fight much like how they did in Earth One. But I don't think they went over the top with things look at Superman Last Son you see him at the end of the fight standing on a truck that was thrown through an building and see the city in ruins. Once again I just think since it was a comic book it doesnt hit home as much as seeing it actually happen. The fight was not over the top through in For Tomorrow Superman and Zod destroyed a whole world with their fight putting countless lives at risk.

 

[747]

The reason the destruction/death has been so criticized, and how some people felt it jarring, is not because of destruction per se, but how it was handled and felt within it's own context. You can't just compare it to a cartoon, regular comic or even The Avengers as an argument – totally different overall feel and tone, that's why the same type of destruction also feels different.

Opinion wise I'm more inbetween, I don't totally dislike it, but I'm not a huge fan of everything about it either. Just like the movie as a whole

 

[TX85]

Yesssss thank you. The nitpicking of the destruction and Superman "ignoring" others safety is ridiculous/annoying. Most superhero movies this is the case, and it happens all the time in the comics as well.

Take The Incredible Hulk for example. At the end when Bruce is gonna fight Abomination, jumping out of the helicopter. He crash lands transforming into the hulk through the street below. What if he landed on a group of people? The whole fight with him and Abomination at the end is full of destruction and disregard. As well as the military being there contributing as well, just like MOS. The fanboys around here go wayyyyyyyy to crazy over this **** seriously.

100% agreed

 

[The Question]

Now I will agree with you here. That they should have shown Superman well Clark walking through the city and looking at all the damage caused by the fight much like how they did in Earth One. But I don't think they went over the top with things look at Superman Last Son you see him at the end of the fight standing on a truck that was thrown through an building and see the city in ruins. Once again I just think since it was a comic book it doesnt hit home as much as seeing it actually happen. The fight was not over the top through in For Tomorrow Superman and Zod destroyed a whole world with their fight putting countless lives at risk.

What makes you think that I would think the fights in For Tomorrow or Last Son are any good?

And, again, it isn't about scale with me. Never has been. It's all about the presentation.