BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - Part 13

[LEVITIKUZ]

If El Mayimbe says it, its true.

All hail El Mayimbe. If you excuse me, I will leave to go read the Gospel according to El Mayimbe.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

I'm not trying to put El completely in clear, because I'm sure he has done the logic into rumor article here and there... but he has at least had a few legit scoops that could not have been done with just fanboy reasoning. Like I said, ALL of the scoopers have been thrown for a loop with this looking like a JL film which they did not see coming. I excpect a Cosmic article "New developments. All previous info incorrect as WB scraps previous Batman/Superman script in favor of Justice League movie." LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

If El Mayimbe says it, its true.

All hail El Mayimbe. If you excuse me, I will leave to go read the Gospel according to El Mayimbe.

Can we stop with the pessimistic sarcasm? This is just for speculation purposes. Always to be taken with a grain of salt, but interesting to discuss.

 

[Sawyer]

Can we stop with the pessimistic sarcasm? This is just for speculation purposes. Always to be taken with a grain of salt, but interesting to discuss.

NO!

 

[STARMAN]

None of these guys know who the villain is. Otherwise they would have said it.

 

[Wise]

Maybe but looks he's just changed his story about 4 times in the last hour. I wouldn't be surprised if he's taking stuff peope say from here and putting them up as scoops he's got.

Then he'll post their email and harass them when it turns out to not be true.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

All the scoopers have an out by claiming "What we saw was an earlier draft, and it has since changed..." It is how most of the bsers cover up their rumors.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I really do sympathize with people in the rumors game because some things you are just going to get wrong and things can change and that's just the way it is but some people are so arrogant that I relish them being wrong.

You are going to get called out by me when you arrogantly say someone has all but signed on the dotted line and will be playing a role and then another actor is cast. As long as you aren't being a *****e Icy Spidey barely even cares that your scoop didn't pan out.

 

[Herolee10]

Well it'll just be a matter of patience for most of us here.

Filming is scheduled to begin within 2-3 months from now, and I'm sure we'll know more by then.

 

[The Shape]

I mean in all honesty if they keep announcing more characters (like MM, Flash etc) then I think it's pretty safe to let go of the idea that this is Superman/Batman.

I'm still pretty sure Superman and Batman will be the focal characters but it's possible that this has turned (or always was) a Justice League film.

Complaining at this point would seem a bit futile. Despite my reservations it's hard not to get excited for this. Snyder handled Watchmen great and I do trust that he'd be able to balance the screen time for these characters pretty well if given the chance.

Characters like Flash, MM, and now Hawkman have not been officially announced as of yet.

The official announcements about this movie have labeled and described it as a Batman/Superman film. Then, it was announced that an actress has been cast as the character of Wonder Woman. There was no modification of the description of the film by the studio. There has been no backtracking to suggest that this will no longer be a Batman/Superman story and that it will suddenly focus on the Trinity instead.

I just find it funny how people can't accept other heroes or characters from the DC universe as minor characters or smaller supporting roles. Wonder Woman is cast, Flash is rumored, and all of a sudden this film is being labeled as a total cluster**** and NOT a story that can focus primarily on the relationship between Batman and Superman. Jor El, Colonel Hardy, and Perry White were featured in several key scenes in MOS and were all technically working for the greater good in some capacity. Should we have considered that a team up? Did Superman and Lois lose out and get shafted because of these minor characters? (two of which will not be in this new film)

When I think of TDK, I can surmise that both Bruce/Batman and Harvey Dent featured most prominently story-wise. They were both the primary protagonists for much of the film (until Harvey's turn), and they both had a fair of amount of the overall screentime. They were mirrors of one another, essentially, and both heroes in their own right. However, Jim Gordon also played a big role in the events of the story. Alfred and Lucius were present throughout and played roles in the outcome (aiding Batman along with Dent and Gordon). Rachel's story (and death) was an essential part of the plot. On top of the good guys, there were also several antagonists featured in the story -- Scarecrow, the Chechen, Maroni, Lau, the Joker, and eventually Two-Face.

So I'm wondering, were Bruce and Harvey's character arcs completely undermined by all of these side characters, several of which I didn't even mention? Would most people here NOT consider TDK to be a Batman film?

My point is that this worrying is premature and unwarranted. All of these blockbuster superhero films are technically ensemble pieces (even the solo adventures) with bloated casts and a plethora of characters. Each character is a small piece of an inter-working mechanism that helps push the primary plot forward. Recognizable roles like WW or Flash being cast does not automatically equate to this being the next Avengers with 6 protagonists garnering equal shares of screentime and story focus. If anything, it equates to a desire on the behalf of Goyer/Snyder/DC to begin drawing more characters and ideas from the DC comic mythology in an effort to build this new film universe properly.

Thankfully, DC is not trying themselves down to a formula of solo film - solo film - solo film - Justice League. It seems they're trying something new by featuring characters in a smaller capacity who will go on to play larger roles in this universe as it continues on, both with solo films and team-ups. I, for one, am happy to be getting a look at our new Wonder Woman in this film, however small her role might be. If they play their cards right with her (and any other side characters they bring in), they'll leave audiences clamoring to see more of her in her own film.

 

[RAE072]

I could see Jason as Hawkman. That'd be cool.

 

[Herolee10]

Characters like Flash, MM, and now Hawkman have not been officially announced as of yet.

The official announcements about this movie have labeled and described it as a Batman/Superman film. Then, it was announced that an actress has been cast as the character of Wonder Woman. There was no modification of the description of the film by the studio. There has been no backtracking to suggest that this will no longer be a Batman/Superman story and that it will suddenly focus on the Trinity instead.

I just find it funny how people can't accept other heroes or characters from the DC universe as minor characters or smaller supporting roles. Wonder Woman is cast, Flash is rumored, and all of a sudden this film is being labeled as a total cluster**** and NOT a story that can focus primarily on the relationship between Batman and Superman. Jor El, Colonel Hardy, and Perry White were featured in several key scenes in MOS and were all technically working for the greater good in some capacity. Should we have considered that a team up? Did Superman and Lois lose out and get shafted because of these minor characters? (two of which will not be in this new film)

When I think of TDK, I can surmise that both Bruce/Batman and Harvey Dent featured most prominently story-wise. They were both the primary protagonists for much of the film (until Harvey's turn), and they both had a fair of amount of the overall screentime. They were mirrors of one another, essentially, and both heroes in their own right. However, Jim Gordon also played a big role in the events of the story. Alfred and Lucius were present throughout and played roles in the outcome (aiding Batman along with Dent and Gordon). Rachel's story (and death) was an essential part of the plot. On top of the good guys, there were also several antagonists featured in the story -- Scarecrow, the Chechen, Maroni, Lau, the Joker, and eventually Two-Face.

So I'm wondering, were Bruce and Harvey's character arcs completely undermined by all of these side characters, several of which I didn't even mention? Would most people here NOT consider TDK to be a Batman film?

My point is that this worrying is premature and unwarranted. All of these blockbuster superhero films are technically ensemble pieces (even the solo adventures) with bloated casts and a plethora of characters. Each character is a small piece of an inter-working mechanism that helps push the primary plot forward. Recognizable roles like WW or Flash being cast does not automatically equate to this being the next Avengers with 6 protagonists garnering equal shares of screentime and story focus. If anything, it equates to a desire on the behalf of Goyer/Snyder/DC to begin drawing more characters and ideas from the DC comic mythology in an effort to build this new film universe properly.

Thankfully, DC is not trying themselves down to a formula of solo film - solo film - solo film - Justice League. It seems they're trying something new by featuring characters in a smaller capacity who will go on to play larger roles in this universe as it continues on, both with solo films and team-ups. I, for one, am happy to be getting a look at our new Wonder Woman in this film, however small her role might be. If they play their cards right with her (and any other side characters they bring in), they'll leave audiences clamoring to see more of her in her own film.

Yeah, I think the fact that something like this hasn’t really been done before, where we have so many iconic DC heroes showing up in a film that isn’t being promoted as the BIG group film is somewhat unprecedented, and thus is causing a lot of stir among people right now.

You have one group that’s saying that it’s still Superman’s film but mixed in with all of these DC heroes as supporting heroes, then you have another group who says that it’s both Superman and Batman’s film, ala team up, and finally you have your other group that says that this is actually a JL film.

So it’s a very confusing period for a lot of people.lol Especially since some folks have gotten too used to the Marvel approach with solo films leading up to the big ensemble one.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

It's funny, because some of the rumors for MOS sounded terrible , yet others sounded better than the film we got :/

 

[The Shape]

Yeah, I think the fact that something like this hasn’t really been done before, where we have so many iconic DC heroes showing up in a film that isn’t being promoted as the BIG group film is somewhat unprecedented, and thus is causing a lot of stir among people right now.

You have one group that’s saying that it’s still Superman’s film but mixed in with all of these DC heroes as supporting heroes, then you have another group who says that it’s both Superman and Batman’s film, ala team up, and finally you have your other group that says that this is actually a JL film.

So it’s a very confusing period for a lot of people.lol Especially since some folks have gotten too used to the Marvel approach with solo films leading up to the big ensemble one.

I feel like at this point, everyone's picturing a trailer that ends with a money shot of the Justice League standing together or something a la The Avengers and that's just not how it's gonna be. Not for this film, at least.

 

[charl_huntress]

I just find it funny how people can't accept other heroes or characters from the DC universe as minor characters or smaller supporting roles. Wonder Woman is cast, Flash is rumored, and all of a sudden this film is being labeled as a total cluster**** and NOT a story that can focus primarily on the relationship between Batman and Superman.

I think most people are just concerned this is happening very fast after just one movie. The MCU's roll out happened gradually before they all showed up together, so I think that's what people were expecting.

This is certainly is a bold move from WB and it does have the potential to be a huge cluster****, but it's an interesting strategy to say the least. I'll give them that.

 

[Pickleweasel]

I hate Hawkman, hope he isn't in it.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

I hate Hawkman, hope he isn't in it.

I don't hate him, but I don't want to see him in this movie

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I hate Hawkman, hope he isn't in it.

Who's worse Hawkman or Aquaman

 

[Fallen Angel]

Who's worse Hawkman or Aquaman

well Aquaman has changed people's perception of him in the New 52. I've read a few issues and he's great.

 

[CharlieS]

Considering that there's some place in the ocean that the scientists didn't find, i think Aquaman could be a credible character in a realistic perspective.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

The inclusion of other characters means nothing because we don't know how they'll use them.

TDKReturns has Superman, WW, and Green Arrow after all, and its a Batman story.

there's nothing to indicate whether this is a Superman movie, a batman/Superman movie, a Trinity movie, or a Justice League movie.

any of these routes would still be considered the sequel to Man of Steel and any of these routes sound fine to me.

(Personally hoping for a Trinity movie with other cameos. Perhaps with Jleague set up in the final scene).

Superman does not 'need' another movie focusing on himself before a team up, and characters do not need to be introduced in solo films first. It all depends how they handle the main story.

Theres also nothing to indicate that they've changed plans or anything.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[CharlieS]

Aquaman and WW could be connected because after all their powers come from the gods.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

Aquaman and WW could be connected because after all their powers come from the gods.

Aquaman's power comes from the Gods?

 

[Herolee10]

Superman does not 'need' another movie focusing on himself before a team up, and characters do not need to be introduced in solo films first. It all depends how they handle the main story.

Honestly, and this is of course no disrespect to your opinion, but I feel like he does need another film dedicated mainly to him because he only really became "Superman" for the most part at the conclusion of the film.

I feel like there's still so much to explore on screen before he's ready to be a JL member, where we get to see himself established as a hero in Metropolis and how he eventually wins over the public with their support.

Heck, we have yet to have one film that really utilizes the fact that he's also a reporter.

 

[CharlieS]

Aquaman's power comes from the Gods?

If i remember his father was a magician, maybe for a movie he could be the son of a god.