BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - Part 35

[Rorschach2012]

There's a lot of good character moments between Bats and Supes in Public Enemies. The Metallo fight scene is pretty awesome too. I liked the movie better than the book

 

[Black Narcissus]

Public enemies at least got the relationship between Supes and Bat right. The plot, meh.

That was the best.

I hope we see that interaction towards the end.

 

[AnneFan]

So what's the best Batman & Superman story ever? The Dark Knight Returns? Public Enemies? Kingdom Come? (As far as their "relationship".)

State your case.

Depends on what you're looking for.

Personally, my pick is the 1997 'Batman Superman: World's Finest' animated movie, which was adapted into comic form. It's a brilliant merging of the two properties.

 

[Tempest]

I thought the best Batman Superman story was Superman/Batman, The Search for Kryptonite.

But my favorite favorite is Public Enemies. So much delicious crack. OMG, the book has some great moments, but it got kind of silly at some points. I love the movie too.

"That was my best friend...and you just killed him"

Long live the bromance!

 

[Wise]

My Favorite Batman/Superman was either "Absolute Power" or "Supergirl"

 

[MrsKent26]

That you're jealous of Batman? We know that already. Everyone is.

I hope you haven't read The Dark Knight Strikes Again then. Because if TDKR is a stake in the heart of the Supes' fan, TDKSA rips their hearts right out of their ribcages with its my bare hands and then throws them on the floor and stomp on 'em 'til they die.

I haven't. I shall avoid it like the plague.

I guess what I was getting at is... There doesn't seem to be a lot of great or best-ever Batman/Superman stories to choose from. So my point is, maybe this movie is in a VERY good position because it's not going to be "straying away" from any classic stories. They've kind of got a semi-blank canvas to play with. I like that. It tells me that they can REALLY shake things up and it won't make anyone too mad (some will be mad and dissatisfied with this movie regardless, but that's because they're poopy heads).

I agree. There aren't many great Supes/Bats stories. Perhaps this movie will be the first truly great Supes/Bats extravaganza...

Why?? It's an else world's book...it's like being made about the characterization in Gotham by Gaslight.

I don't want that "else." It's no excuse to use superman like that. I wish he would have found some original character to use or something. But of course he couldn't. That wouldn't be enough to create Batgod.

 

[Wise]

It was awesome that animated movie.

It had everything.

The only lame part was Batman flipping Superman across the room.

 

[Rorschach2012]

It was awesome that animated movie.

It had everything.

The only lame part was Batman flipping Superman across the room.

I dunno, i kinda liked that. If Superman wasn't bracing himself, theoretically, he should be able to be thrown by a human master of martial arts. He weighs the same as a human his height right?

 

[Rorschach2012]

But yeah World's Finest the animated movie was fantastic. I remember I'd always rent the vhs from Blockbuster as a kid.

Along with this

Does anyone else remember those BTAS vhs tapes? They had individual ones for Batman, Robin and the main villains. I can thank those tapes for kickstarting a lifelong love of the Timmverse

Slightly off topic, but my psychology teacher mentioned Batman and Robin today. She said that kids are more likely to learn violent behavior from Robin than they are Batman because Robin is supposed to be a kid, therefore making him more relatable

 

[Rowsdower!]

Does it feel like cleaning all the bathrooms in Grand Central Station with your tongue?

Yup, like ripping out your intestines with a fork.

 

[Rorschach2012]

This. It's an else worlds what if type story, so really don't get why some would consider it a "stake in the heart".

Broseph- that exchange between Hal and Sinestro in your sig is awesome. What's that from?

 

[AnneFan]

I dunno, i kinda liked that. If Superman wasn't bracing himself, theoretically, he should be able to be thrown by a human master of martial arts. He weighs the same as a human his height right?

Yeah, I didn't have an issue with it. It showed Batman isn't afraid of anyone, and Superman was a little surprised. Good little bit of one-upsmanship going on in that scene. The ending with Batman spying on Clark from a distance is golden.

I agree, it's pretty much as good as it gets

 

[Chip Chipperson]

But yeah World's Finest the animated movie was fantastic. I remember I'd always rent the vhs from Blockbuster as a kid.

Along with this

Does anyone else remember those BTAS vhs tapes? They had individual ones for Batman, Robin and the main villains. I can thank those tapes for kickstarting a lifelong love of the Timmverse

Slightly off topic, but my psychology teacher mentioned Batman and Robin today. She said that kids are more likely to learn violent behavior from Robin than they are Batman because Robin is supposed to be a kid, therefore making him more relatable

I had them all, and treated them like bricks of gold.

think i still have them lying around the basement somewhere.

 

[Tempest]

The animated World's Finest was one of the worst stories, I thought.

Honestly, the best of the best Batman/Superman is when they travel to the past, Batman is possessed by a demon, and Superman decides to scare the demon out of him by accusing him of being a witch and trying to burn him at the stake.

Good stuff.

 

[Sawyer]

Had those too. I have the DVDs now, so I don't really need the tapes, but I love the cover art.

 

[Marvin]

I dunno, i kinda liked that. If Superman wasn't bracing himself, theoretically, he should be able to be thrown by a human master of martial arts. He weighs the same as a human his height right?

These stories tend to never get it right. No use holding this particular adaptation any more accountable than the rest.

First problem: a being with the reflexes and reaction time to catch multiple bullets long after they have been fired isn't conducive to being caught of guard in such a way. That being said, I like to assume Superman let it happen after the fact.

The best part of that scene is as superman says: "I knew you were crazy, didn't know you were stupid" or something to that end. I like when batman appears cray.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Yeah, I didn't have an issue with it. It showed Batman isn't afraid of anyone, and Superman was a little surprised. Good little bit of one-upsmanship going on in that scene. The ending with Batman spying on Clark from a distance is golden.

I agree, it's pretty much as good as it gets

Basically the Timmverse in general is as good as it gets

I realize that the majority of the world would think that the Nolan films are in general "better" pieces of art than BTAS. But I love BTAS so much more than I love the Nolan films. To me, it's the definitive Batman experience, and is almost impossible to top.

I watch the DCAU religiously. Lol it's gotten to the point where i watch at least an episode every day, i'm surprised i'm not tired of it yet...

I just got started on Spider-Man The Animated Series, and coming from a die hard DCAU fan, the switch was pretty easy to make from the DCAU to S-M:TAS. The quality is pretty much the same. Spider-Man TAS is an amazing show, and if you're a big fan of the Timmverse you will love it!!! Same with X-Men TAS, but I gotta say i prefer Spider Man TAS. Anyways...yeah back to Batman and Superman! Sorry!

 

[Rorschach2012]

I had them all, and treated them like bricks of gold.

think i still have them lying around the basement somewhere.

You lucky duck! I only had the Mr. Freeze and Penguin ones. Which reminds me... Deep Freeze is one of the best episodes from the entire DCAU. Soo good.

 

[Wise]

Basically the Timmverse in general is as good as it gets

I realize that the majority of the world would think that the Nolan films are in general "better" pieces of art than BTAS. But I love BTAS so much more than I love the Nolan films. To me, it's the definitive Batman experience, and is almost impossible to top.

I watch the DCAU religiously. Lol it's gotten to the point where i watch at least an episode every day, i'm surprised i'm not tired of it yet...

I just got started on Spider-Man The Animated Series, and coming from a die hard DCAU fan, the switch was pretty easy to make from the DCAU to S-M:TAS. The quality is pretty much the same. Spider-Man TAS is an amazing show, and if you're a big fan of the Timmverse you will love it!!! Same with X-Men TAS, but I gotta say i prefer Spider Man TAS. Anyways...yeah back to Batman and Superman! Sorry!

If you watch that series carefully you'll notice that Spiderman doesn't punch anyone for the whole show. He was forbidden from it.

 

[MrsKent26]

I don't really know how it is in a lot of comics...but since Supes is so powerful, it seems almost obligatory that Batman is going to come out a 'team-up' looking like the 'cooler' and more clever one...and the one who will be able to beat Superman somehow because he is so obviously outmatched in power. Almost not fair for Supes because he's almost got nothing to win, because it's just not a fair fight for Batman....so why bother doing the story unless you can flip it on its end?

Or you just have them working together from the outset...but being foes is so much more fun, no? Or...like in the TAS World's Finest, they didn't really fight eachother much, but there was plenty of 'competition'...and again, by default it almost unfairly made Batman out to be cooler even though he wasn't stronger. Granted, I'm only using a small sample.

It is obligatory. Batman's "cool factor" is better protected than the president. And what really gets my goat is that people say things like "well, batman is cooler!" Is he really? When they have to be so intense about guarding him with plot protection? But I'm not going to claim I don't like batman or don't think he's cool because he was what got me into CBMs. But it seems odd to create a human character and sell him as "flawed" and "relatable" while making him do anything and everything. Why not just make him an alien? The problem is they are too unevenly matched. So perhaps the writers think they have to let batman win because superman winning would be too easy and expected. But the opposite seems more common until recently (some writers are trying to make supes more badass, perhaps they realized the batgod issue was happening).

And to be honest, I'm not sure how they're going to do a fight in the movie and avoid bias because batgod seems inevitable at this point. Or they'll go over board and make supes a *****ey bully.

 

[Bathead]

Yeah, I didn't have an issue with it. It showed Batman isn't afraid of anyone, and Superman was a little surprised. Good little bit of one-upsmanship going on in that scene. The ending with Batman spying on Clark from a distance is golden.
I agree, it's pretty much as good as it gets

+1 for me also, and for those same reasons. As to the bolded part, I especially enjoyed the thumbs up smirk he gave Clark. That whole bit highlighted one of the big differences between the two, Superman relied on his powers to find out Batman's ID (and thought he was so clever in doing so) , and Batman relied on his smarts and detective skills.

 

[georgec]

If you watch that series carefully you'll notice that Spiderman doesn't punch anyone for the whole show. He was forbidden from it.

*searches Google*

It checks out. LOL wow, I never realized that. It's been probably 15+ years since I saw any of those 90s Spidey episodes.

 

[InJustice]

The animated World's Finest was one of the worst stories, I thought.

Honestly, the best of the best Batman/Superman is when they travel to the past, Batman is possessed by a demon, and Superman decides to scare the demon out of him by accusing him of being a witch and trying to burn him at the stake.

Good stuff.

I wouldn't say the worst, but I did find it to be an underwhelming experience. Definitely not as deep with the Superman/Batman dynamics like Public Enemies, or even the annual comics, and I generally prefer those two over Timmverse's movie.

 

[Herolee10]

Okay, well given the fact that Superman will inevitably be involved in another fight with a super villain, I'm curious....how would people here prefer the fight to be like?

One of the things that I've noticed is that many people seemingly hate the idea of mass destruction or destruction of any kind taking place when superman is fighting someone within a city

Would some prefer that Superman just fly his enemy out into a desert or an isolated area?

 

[Tempest]

I wouldn't say the worst, but I did find it to be an underwhelming experience. Definitely not as deep with the Superman/Batman dynamics like Public Enemies, or even the annual comics, and I generally prefer those two over Timmverse's movie.

The Superman/Batman series is golden for me. Sometimes it was the silliest thing ever, but I loved the depth of love and respect the characters had for each other, even when they disagreed. They were almost always shown as equals, and their differing views weren't posed with the idea that one had a better idea than the other; just that they had different motivations and ideals they cherished.

That respect for both characters is what I really long to see in the live action films.