BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 46

[D.P.]

I honestly I don't want them to introduce Kryptonite at all. it's the most convenient, easy and abused way of harming Superman. but if they are going to use it, it should somehow de-power him a bit but not completely, unlike in Superman Returns where it made Supes a complete wuss yet he was able to lift a huge Kryptonite island. it's very contradicting.

Well, it's the counterbalance for his ultra-cheap power set. How else would he ever be made to look vulnerable besides magic?

 

[Pickleweasel]

I honestly I don't want them to introduce Kryptonite at all. it's the most convenient, easy and abused way of harming Superman. but if they are going to use it, it should somehow de-power him a bit but not completely, unlike in Superman Returns where it made Supes a complete wuss yet he was able to lift a huge Kryptonite island. it's very contradicting.

No offense but this is stupid to me, Its like saying I don't want them to introduce super strength at all, it's the most convenient, easy and abused ability of Superman

 

[snpklsdmbldr]

but in Man of Steel he's not that powerful compared to Returns, human weapons can disorientate him. unless he becomes more powerful in the sequel which seems likely. also not every Superman villain use kryptonite or magic to hurt him. all I'm saying the use of krytonite is so abused it's boring already, for some reason there's always a weapon made out of it like there's an unlimited supply of the green rock in Walmart.

 

[Micromind]

B.S. Green Lantern got crap reviews because it was a crap movie. Audiences hated it as well and it flopped at the box office as a result. It didn't satisfy any demographic on a large enoght scale.

Critics don't have some vendetta against DC movies, a lot of these critics have been reviewing movies for decades and they've seen the best and the worst of these big blockbusters. Most of them don't give a s*** about Marvel or DC. They just review the film for what it is and give their opinion

Somehow I find this difficult to believe, look at the the average rating for MOS, which is comparable to ratings mediocre Marvel movies have got, then look again at RT Tomatometer percentage, see any difference ?

The difference is that the Marvel movies have got higher RT percentage than MOS.

Edit: This is the last time I will respond to such posts, I know Marvel studios are favored by many reviewers, but that just my opinion.

Spoiler

Thor: The Dark World (2013)
65 %
Average Rating: 6.2/10

Iron Man 2 (2010)
73 %
Average Rating: 6.5/10

The Incredible Hulk (2008)
67 %
Average Rating: 6.2/10

Man of Steel (2013)
56 %
Average Rating: 6.2/10

 

[D.P.]

but in Man of Steel he's not that powerful compared to Returns, human weapons can disorientate him.

What human weapons? Zod and his gang were shrugging off ballistic missles from the military.

Clark is pretty god-like even in MOS. There has to be a plot device to make him vulnerable. The green rock has been around over 70 years, do you have a better suggestion?

Spoiler

Thor: The Dark World (2013)
65 %
Average Rating: 6.2/10

Iron Man 2 (2010)
73 %
Average Rating: 6.5/10

The Incredible Hulk (2008)
67 %
Average Rating: 6.2/10

Man of Steel (2013)
56 %
Average Rating: 6.2/10

Numbers don't lie.

 

[DA_Champion]

MoS had a more intelligent version of kryptonite: red radiation, Kryptonian atmosphere.

 

[snpklsdmbldr]

MoS had a more intelligent version of kryptonite: red radiation, Kryptonian atmosphere.

This.

other SUPERheroes have unbelievable sets of power also but they don't have unbelievable sets of weaknesses as abused as Kryptonite.

 

[D.P.]

Point is, it's just as contrived as kryptonite when it comes to having an excuse for Superman to have moments of vulnerability.

It is kryptonite when you think about it, just in a different form. So I'm not sure why the green rock form bothers you so much.

What happens if Lex finds a way to weaponize Kryptonian atmosphere (Which is highly likely) in the film? Will you moan and groan then?

It's a necessary evil. Superman just can't punch his way through every problem.

all I'm saying the use of krytonite is so abused it's boring already, for some reason there's always a weapon made out of it like there's an unlimited supply of the green rock in Walmart.

There's going to have to be one constant and canon object/weapon that can weaken Superman in the movies, how it looks/works won't really matter in the grand scheme of it all.

 

[snpklsdmbldr]

why would anyone complain of Lex using Kryptonite? it's his trademark. that's like complaining Metallo is using kryptonite as well. I just hope they won't go overkill with the use of it like with Returns, there are other villains out there who can fight with him. not to mention, physical fighting is not the only way of harming Superman.

 

[DA_Champion]

Point is, it's just as contrived as kryptonite when it comes to having an excuse for Superman to have moments of vulnerability.

It is kryptonite when you think about it, just in a different form. So I'm not sure why the green rock form bothers you so much.

What happens if Lex finds a way to weaponize Kryptonian atmosphere (Which is highly likely) in the film? Will you moan and groan then?

It's a necessary evil. Superman just can't punch his way through every problem.



There's going to have to be one constant and canon object/weapon that can weaken Superman in the movies, how it looks/works won't really matter in the grand scheme of it all.

Its different.

Kryptonite leaves Superman agonizing in the fetal position until he finds a second wind and lifts a Kryptonite island.

Red sun + kryptonian atmosphere is well defined, it leaves him with regular person strength.

It's also more "grounded".

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

Somehow I find this difficult to believe, look at the the average rating for MOS, which is comparable to ratings mediocre Marvel movies have got, then look again at RT Tomatometer percentage, see any difference ?

The difference is that the Marvel movies have got higher RT percentage than MOS.

Edit: This is the last time I will respond to such posts, I know Marvel studios are favored by many reviewers, but that just my opinion.

Spoiler

Thor: The Dark World (2013)
65 %
Average Rating: 6.2/10

Iron Man 2 (2010)
73 %
Average Rating: 6.5/10

The Incredible Hulk (2008)
67 %
Average Rating: 6.2/10

Man of Steel (2013)
56 %
Average Rating: 6.2/10

yep. pretty f'ing sad if you ask me. it doesn't bother me that marvel gets lawded the way they do. but the literal hate that mos got from some critics was infuriating even a tad disrespectful to the king daddy of them all.

 

[D.P.]

Its different.

Kryptonite leaves Superman agonizing in the fetal position until he finds a second wind and lifts a Kryptonite island.

Red sun + kryptonian atmosphere is well defined, it leaves him with regular person strength.

It's also more "grounded".

I don't mind it, I'm just pointing out that kryptonite isn't "stupid" or "abused". It just is what it is. It's necessary to the mythos.

Red sun + kryptonian atmosphere is just Kryptonite dressed up differently IMO. I've seen depictions where he is left in a fetal position, and others where his strength is just greatly reduced. Mind you, the K-Atmopshere from MOS left him doubled over and bleeding internally as well.

 

[snpklsdmbldr]

yep. pretty f'ing sad if you ask me. it doesn't bother me that marvel gets lawded the way they do. but the literal hate that mos got from some critics was infuriating even a tad disrespectful to the king daddy of them all.

not to mention some people/critics hates Zack Snyder for some unkown reason. directors are almost brand names today, some people/critics will blindly think anything is good as long it's made by their favorite director. same with the opposite.

somehow I think people and critics got used to Marvel movies and using it as a standard. (just look at some people here in SHH who keeps on insisting DC should "follow" Marvel lol) If they watched something different (DC) they automatically think it's something less.

 

[DA_Champion]

I don't mind it, I'm just pointing out that kryptonite isn't "stupid" or "abused". It just is what it is. It's necessary to the mythos.

Red sun + kryptonian atmosphere is just Kryptonite dressed up differently IMO. I've seen depictions where he is left in a fetal position, and others where his strength is just greatly reduced. Mind you, the K-Atmopshere from MOS left him doubled over and bleeding internally as well.

His bleding and falling unconscious was a one time thing.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Who said that?

 

[Lencho01]

Jerry Ordway & Steve Rude’s ‘Adventures of Superman’ Is Like ‘A Lost Fleischer Cartoon’ [Interview]

 

[113]

This.

other SUPERheroes have unbelievable sets of power also but they don't have unbelievable sets of weaknesses as abused as Kryptonite.

This. Only with Superman do I hear the constant/cliched complaint that he's OP. Only with him do I hear the rationalization of a gimmicky weakness like kryptonite. The only reason he gets those complaints is because some people just don't like the character point blank; so they defend their hatred of the character by coming up with these lame excuses.

Thor is OP, Hulk is OP, Silver Surfer is OP, etc...but none of those characters have gimmicks to weaken them and no one has an issue with it. As many have pointed out, in Snyders version Supes is already fairly weak compared to Reeves/Routh version, and certainly compared to many comic iterations of the character - that is enough to give him a physical challenge without introducing a gimmick.

 

[Micromind]

Thor is OP, Hulk is OP, Silver Surfer is OP, etc...but none of those characters have gimmicks to weaken them and no one has an issue with it.

As many have pointed out, in Snyders version Supes is already fairly weak compared to Reeves/Routh version, and certainly compared to many comic iterations of the character - that is enough to give him a physical challenge without introducing a gimmick.

Exactly.

Not only these heroes are OP, there is no way to defeat them either.

 

[snpklsdmbldr]

anyways I want to see a candid picture of Cavill, Affleck and Gadot together, maybe the cast and crew eating out somewhere. I can wait for their official reveal in their new suits.

 

[DA_Champion]

Who said that?

Zod did.

 

[Jekecy]

Somehow I find this difficult to believe, look at the the average rating for MOS, which is comparable to ratings mediocre Marvel movies have got, then look again at RT Tomatometer percentage, see any difference ?

The difference is that the Marvel movies have got higher RT percentage than MOS.

Edit: This is the last time I will respond to such posts, I know Marvel studios are favored by many reviewers, but that just my opinion.

Spoiler

Thor: The Dark World (2013)
65 %
Average Rating: 6.2/10

Iron Man 2 (2010)
73 %
Average Rating: 6.5/10

The Incredible Hulk (2008)
67 %
Average Rating: 6.2/10

Man of Steel (2013)
56 %
Average Rating: 6.2/10

I'm not seeing how this proves anything. They're separate values for a reason. The tomatometer has to be one of the misunderstood things on the internet.

All it does is give you a percentage of those who liked it versus those who didn't. It doesn't tell you how much they dis/liked it. That is what the average movie rating is for.

Two movies with the same exact tomato score could have wildly different movie scores. Whereas one would have gotten a mildly passable reception universally, another could have gotten an exceptional response universally. Same like/dislike percentage.

 

[Crimson King]

It's so strange coming to these boards after spending time on the MCU side of the fence. DC is hardly ever discussed over there. Yet here, there's this obsessive need to build up DC by tearing Marvel down, even going so far as to claim media bias when one single DC movie doesn't get higher marks (people seem to ignore critic's love of Nolan's movies). I don't get it.

 

[Fallen Angel]

It's the same folks who keep bringing it up. If you want to talk Marvel go do it in the appropriate board's.

 

[DA_Champion]

The discrepancy in MoS scores can be easily explained with a large standard deviation in its scores.

If every reviewer gives Movie A a 7/10, then it will have 100% on the tomato meter.
If half the reviewers gives Movie B a 4/10 and the other half an 8/10, then it will have 50% on the tomato meter.

 

[DA_Champion]

It's the same folks who keep bringing it up. If you want to talk Marvel go do it in the appropriate board's.

A significant fraction of Crimson King's posts are belligerent, condescending, or just aggressive in some way. I wouldn't read too much into it.