BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 46

[Lencho01]

Oh don't worry....Supes'll age like fine wine over the next two years.

But, then people will be all "Batman's the cheap alcohol that'll get us drunk! Go Batman!" t:

He's got issues with expensive property in general, it seems.

Like he asks to borrow someone's phone...the signal goes a bit wonky, so he throws it in the air and vaporizes it with heat vision. It's like, dude...!

Yep. And he hates rocks.

http://kerrycallen.blogspot.com/2013/12/superman-and-car.html

http://comicsalliance.com/superman-history-comic-2/

 

[Marvin]

Like I said, I was just playing devil's advocate with that comment...

But there is no actual exploration of why Clark chooses to do good in the film. Sure he can do it because it's the right thing to do, but he's actually scolded for doing so, and doesn't recieve encouragement in it. It would seem with the dialogue that a lifetime of choosing to disobey his father (even in his dying wish) that Clark is not an obedient son.

What motivates Clark is something I'd have rather seen than some other things.

Devils advocate is an attribute little people have and more should implore, motivates discussion. Good on you. As for clark receiving encouragement, I see where you are coming from but I feel such rhetoric is indicative of a simplified approach to characterization and indicative of a simplified audience. I personally don't think characters should be treated as simpletons where the communication need be simple to be understood, whether they be kids or adults. A film like Stand By Me for example. They are complex individuals whose motivation results from a great deal more than 'that one time pa patted encouraged them'.

Characters should weigh and struggle with all sorts of moral and instances thrown at them and characterization should result from the decisions they then make. For example, why did Parker let that robber go? I mean didn't Ben already tell him 'what's best in life'? There is alot more that goes into why parker does what he does than just a speech(he didn't listen to the first time), alot he goes through after as well...
This is the same deal in MOS, only we fans are so used to/ready, for it to be simplified and direct. All that said, why does superman choose to help people as best he can and in the way that he can? Cause that's what his life experience made him into. Not simply cause Pa patted him on his head that one time. And cause pa kent told him not to kill...ugh.

I love his line about, is 'human worth trusting'. He obviously didn't just skim though those philosophy books.

Just so other people know: This is how you should discuss with someone, comprehension of the criticism, your opinion, and then an evaluation.

And I completely agree, the Man of Steel climax is not a climax without merit. It very much does have strengths to it, however, like I say it's not also without faults, and I think perhaps the confrontation occuring with more urgency and a restructuring could have improved it.

I think there was safe way to end it and a risky/going for something "prolific on paper" way to end the superman movie. I'm personally tired of forgettable endings. I'm glad zod didn't end up in the zone. I'd have no ground to stand on in my accusations that marvel plays it safer than dc.

 

[Marvin]

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One thing Sndyer should pick up on watching the superman/doomsday clip, other than how two faced some fans can be

Is the value in blood, torn costumes and pain. In all the minutia of getting this stuff to work, that was the one thing that probably would have made all the difference. He was on the right rack too with the smallville fight. Fights need pain, torn costumes help.
I've never seen a superhero finale fight so inconsiderate to this one thing outside of the most of 2/3'rds of TDK...And the special case that is wolverine.

make em bleed. Thankfully I think circumstance will force their hand given the premise of the next film and....if he ever faces doomsday, it writes itself.

Also, that's maybe the best choreography I've seen the character do without compromising that he's just a brawler. More of that sort of thing please. Combinations and spins and such.

 

[bluerayer]

And Marvel Red Bull shots.

I once drank ten Red Bull shots in one sitting. It was super man.

 

[X Knight]

do you think they will showcase more Super powers in the sequel, like Freeze Breath?

 

[shauner111]

Im already bored with waiting for this movie. It's like over 2 years away and when will we see some footage? December? Meh.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Im already bored with waiting for this movie. It's like over 2 years away and when will we see some footage? December? Meh.

welcome to the club, man...... we'd offer you some donuts and a jacket, but the donuts are stale and the jackets have been confiscated by WB.

 

[Crimson King]

do you think they will showcase more Super powers in the sequel, like Freeze Breath?

My guess is they don't, but that's just a guess. Freeze breath seems kind of hokey given the universe they're setting up. I thought the heat vision was done really well though.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

My guess is they don't, but that's just a guess. Freeze breath seems kind of hokey given the universe they're setting up. I thought the heat vision was done really well though.

Freeze breath is silly, but heat vision is okay. Why?

 

[X Knight]

My guess is they don't, but that's just a guess. Freeze breath seems kind of hokey given the universe they're setting up. I thought the heat vision was done really well though.

well, at the very least, I hope we get to see Supes be more creative with his powers, especially in combat.

just punch, punch, punch, punch can get kind of boring after awhile.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Devils advocate is an attribute little people have and more should implore, motivates discussion. Good on you. As for clark receiving encouragement, I see where you are coming from but I feel such rhetoric is indicative of a simplified approach to characterization and indicative of a simplified audience. I personally don't think characters should be treated as simpletons where the communication need be simple to be understood, whether they be kids or adults. A film like Stand By Me for example. They are complex individuals whose motivation results from a great deal more than 'that one time pa patted encouraged them'.

Characters should weigh and struggle with all sorts of moral and instances thrown at them and characterization should result from the decisions they then make. For example, why did Parker let that robber go? I mean didn't Ben already tell him 'what's best in life'? There is alot more that goes into why parker does what he does than just a speech(he didn't listen to the first time), alot he goes through after as well...
This is the same deal in MOS, only we fans are so used to/ready, for it to be simplified and direct. All that said, why does superman choose to help people as best he can and in the way that he can? Cause that's what his life experience made him into. Not simply cause Pa patted him on his head that one time. And cause pa kent told him not to kill...ugh.

I love his line about, is 'human worth trusting'. He obviously didn't just skim though those philosophy books.

All apt and good points. Perhaps my interpretation is too simplistic. I would still prefer if he jad recieved at least some encouragement from his parents in what he did.

I think there was safe way to end it and a risky/going for something "prolific on paper" way to end the superman movie. I'm personally tired of forgettable endings. I'm glad zod didn't end up in the zone. I'd have no ground to stand on in my accusations that marvel plays it safer than dc.

Indeed, I do think going for a controversial ending was the best choice, and Clark killing Zod does seem to work fundamentally, even if I do disagree with the execution (heh).

 

[Crimson King]

Freeze breath is silly, but heat vision is okay. Why?

I can buy heat vision because of the sun's radiation affecting him in such a way that he can release that build-up of radiation from his body. I don't see that happening the same way with freeze breath.

Also, I think the delivery of said freeze breath is kinda silly, but that's just me.

 

[Marvin]

well, at the very least, I hope we get to see Supes be more creative with his powers, especially in combat.

just punch, punch, punch, punch can get kind of boring after awhile.

I personally understand what you are getting at and in a way somewhat agree but...Man do I hate generalizations. It's been the bane of this movie's criticism.

Clearly rocky has it's own set of circumstances but still. If only people would get a little more specific in such aims. Like when i hear 'too much action' for example...yes, cause the raid2 doesn't have 3 times as much, with 3 times less character development to boot. I digress.

Superman fights have the potential to be the bestest cinema, but they need alot of things working in order to do so. Smallville fight was definitely a great attempt. Looking forward to seeing what comes next. I wouldn't judge cap based on that first movie.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

I can buy heat vision because of the sun's radiation affecting him in such a way that he can release that build-up of radiation from his body. I don't see that happening the same way with freeze breath.

Also, I think the delivery of said freeze breath is kinda silly, but that's just me.

What about flight? That's the most unrealistic thing evert:

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

just punch, punch, punch, punch can get kind of boring after awhile.

Yes, that's why I didn't like the Metropolis fight. It's a superhero movie, not a boxing match.

 

[Marvin]

Yes, that's why I didn't like the Metropolis fight. It's a superhero movie, not a boxing match.

You've seen flight and outer space and buildings and heat vision and and explosions and cars and death and super speed and little kids in a boxing match?

Was it sanctioned in Vagas?

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

You've seen flight and outer space and buildings and heat vision and and explosions and cars and death and super speed and little kids in a boxing match?

Was it sanctioned in Vagas?

Yeah, it was a Mike Tyson fight.

 

[Mikelus]

All apt and good points. Perhaps my interpretation is too simplistic. I would still prefer if he jad recieved at least some encouragement from his parents in what he did.

Thank you for your honesty.

Indeed, I do think going for a controversial ending was the best choice, and Clark killing Zod does seem to work fundamentally, even if I do disagree with the execution (heh).

And how you would have done it? Less graphic? At least Snyder has the courage to do hard scenes unlike the competition.

 

[Crimson King]

What about flight? That's the most unrealistic thing evert:

Flight looks cooler.

And how you would have done it? Less graphic? At least Snyder has the courage to do hard scenes unlike the competition.

I agree with you for the most part, but TWS was different. Someone finally figured out that you can stop Cap by shooting him in the legs before you shoot him in the gut, both of which we saw on screen. Oh, and then there's Thor's hand situation in TDW, but that turned out to be a mirage.

 

[Wayne Bruce]

People realize that Clark had never fought even once before right? If anything, Zod should have been a much better fighter and strategist since....you know...it's what he was born to do.

 

[The Shape]

Still talking about the MOS ending, I see. I'm shaking my head in dismay.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

I think people use the "Superman is new at this" excuse too often.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Still talking about the MOS ending, I see. I'm shaking my head in dismay.

No, we're talkig about the fight scenes.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Complaining about punching in a superhero movie.

(shakes head)

 

[Superherofan123]

I loved MOS. Every bit of it...I know the debate is never going to stop, but it really is getting old!