BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 47

[Psycho_Sith]

Perhaps a CGI cowl sometime soon, too.

See?! See?? That's what I'm saying! CG that thing for slick close-ups.

Like that Arkham City trailer where the camera zooms really close on Bats' face with the rain on it...priceless.

 

[MrsKent26]

I hope they make batman's cape just a bit raggedy, like so:

 

[BvS117]

See?! See?? That's what I'm saying! CG that thing for slick close-ups.

Like that Arkham City trailer where the camera zooms really close on Bats' face with the rain on it...priceless.

I think Green Lantern taught us a valuable lesson with using CGI on the suits/mask.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ A mold should do the trick. Unless they wanted the whiteyes glow

 

[BvS117]

"Hire better effects with a better budget/schedule"

I don't see the advantage in using CGI on Batman's cowl.

The cowl is a still object that doesn't move or emote or interact with the environment at all. It doesn't seem cost effective.

I believe that if you can effectively do/make something practically, then do so.

 

[TeeKay]

What's up guys?

 

[WoodyROM]

I hope they make batman's cape just a bit raggedy, like so:

I haven't really thought about that, but it would look fantastic. It would also add to the dichotomy between Supes and Bats.

 

[Boom]

I'm still in the "make the cowl a prosthetic" camp.

Look at the Engineers from Prometheus for an example.

 

[Boom]

Again, good mocap/CGI can make it look like a practical prosthetic, but not have the restrictions/discomfort and physical limitation and bulk issues of an actual prosthetic.

I'll see you in court .

 

[TeeKay]

Why would they make the cowl CGI/Mo-cap?

 

[InJustice]

The video in question doesn't prove the entire scene was only, as we already know, moments were.

I personally think for the shot in question, the attachment was practical and the flapping was cgi. Guess we'll never know.

I highly doubt Snyder would film the scene and then stop it mid-way just to add a practical cape, and then go back to CGI cape in the moments preceding Superman's first flight (I'm assuming he filmed the arctic scene in one go rather than film it in pieces. It's much easier to use CG for the cape in the entire scene anyways).

As for Batman's cowl. I wouldn't object to a CGI cowl, because the cowl can limit an actor's movements, which in turn, can make Batman's fights look like total crap. However, I'd like them to explore flexible fabrics to use for the cowl before heading to CGI territory.

 

[TeeKay]

Again, better head/neck mobility, less discomfort and bulk, perhaps some movement with expression...all the things a rigid prosthetic can't do without suffering structurally. It'll definitely be a viable option sometime soon, it just takes the right approach. Things like Davy Jones in POTC and the Two Face effects in TDK are stepping stones towards that. GL isn't a good example as so much of that film was shoddy and rushed.

Didn't Nolan's Batman have a cowl though? Worked and looked pretty good to me. Having a CGI cowl is just a waste of money imo.

 

[Boom]

I hated the Nolan cowl.

In fact, thanks to Batman movies, I hate black rubber in general. **** tires .

 

[InJustice]

Didn't Nolan's Batman have a cowl though? Worked and looked pretty good to me. Having a CGI cowl is just a waste of money imo.

Even when updating the design for The Dark Knight, I recall Bale saying that the suit was uncomfortable for him. Generally speaking, you want the actor to have as much range as possible so that the action scenes look good. In Nolan's Batman, you can see the suit's heaviness affecting the action scenes.

 

[Boom]

Not to mention they got rid of the nose holes in the cowl from TDK onward, which perhaps contributed to the congested quality of Bale's voice.

And it is well documented that the BB gave him headaches.

 

[TeeKay]

Even when updating the design for The Dark Knight, I recall Bale saying that the suit was uncomfortable for him. Generally speaking, you want the actor to have as much range as possible so that the action scenes look good. In Nolan's Batman, you can see the suit's heaviness affecting the action scenes.

Yeah it was much more sleeker. Bale seemed to be more efficient, flexible and moved faster in TDK suit than the BB suit.

Still too bulky to fit ears/hair, etc (remember the Joker interrogation scene?!)....as would be the case with any prosthetic. You have to look past the stigma of 'CGI', and see how it's actually progressed with mocap and even further advancements in photo-realism. You could make it as thin as skin, virtually, and even shape out the extra space needed for ears et al...and not have a nearly suffocating, painfully tight wrap on the actor's head. You could also have the 'frown' change/react a bit, much more easily incorporate 'white eyes' if wanted. It might not be for this immediate version, but a few years down the road, it be almost irresponsible not to at east pursue the possibilities. It takes the right artist/filmmaker who can work closely with animation and effects to hone it.

So you want them to use CGI for the whole cowl?

 

[Boom]

In a nutshell:

 

[InJustice]

To support Kalmart's example, look at Jor-El and Zod's battle suits. Because their suits were CG, the actors had free range to do whatever demanded of them, and it didn't affect the quality of their action scenes.

Heck, I didn't even know it was fake until I saw photos of Michael Shannon and Russell Crowe in a CG suit.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

It's funny I'm not a CGI-phobe like a lot of people are but I don't like the idea of any part of Batman's costume, with the exception of the cape, being CGI. I mean I liked that Henry Cavill was wearing a real and not a mocap suit. I hated that Green Lantern's entire suit was CGI.

 

[TeeKay]

It would make most sense....like with the Davy Jones effects on Nihy...but this will blend with the real footage of his face even better. Don't look at it as making him look 'cartoonish'...but like he is actually wearing a physical skin-tight cowl, but sleeker and more flexible than you can do with a prosthetic...no strange wrinkles or folds to worry about, etc.. More 'painted on' like the actual comics often look.

We'll see very soon whether Snyder uses CGI or not.

To support Kalmart's example, look at Jor-El and Zod's battle suits. Because their suits were CG, the actors had free range to do whatever demanded of them, and it didn't affect the quality of their action scenes.

Heck, I didn't even know it was fake until I saw photos of Michael Shannon and Russell Crowe in a CG suit.

Zod's suit on earth looked CGI at times.

 

[InJustice]

I think Snyder is too much of a comic book fan, that he'll make a practical Batman cowl. However, I hope he experiments with something other than rubber. People bring up the Nite Owl suit from Watchmen, but it still looks too stiff around the neck, meaning some movement is still restricted.

 

[Boom]

We'll obviously they have a physical cowl. I doubt Snyder would have been gushing over this suit as much as he has if it didn't include one.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

No, I doubt it'll be used just yet. Probably still needs some time and advancement....I'm thinking the next generation of Batman movies, maybe shortly after this when they reboot.



I know this is how some people feel, but we need to 'cut tat umbilical cord', so to speak. Not to see it as the easier/slicker way, but something that improves upon what couldn't quite be physically reached with prosthetics. And at the same time, helping performance as a plus.

You could use the same argument for regular clothes. Why not have actors wearing mocap suits during 100% of films?

Why not have all films 100% shot in front of greenscreen? That would make things much easier as well.

 

[ShoguN]

It would make most sense....like with the Davy Jones effects on Nihy...but this will blend with the real footage of his face even better. Don't look at it as making him look 'cartoonish'...but like he is actually wearing a physical skin-tight cowl, but sleeker and more flexible than you can do with a prosthetic...no strange wrinkles or folds to worry about, etc.. More 'painted on' like the actual comics often look.

I think they need to go the cgi route for the cowl, and add the white eyes. I didnt realize Zods armour was cgi, if they can do that so well then Batmans cowl would be no problem. It would look so much better then all the impractical rubber cowls wev gotten. Im almost expecting this to be the case.

 

[ShoguN]

I dont think it would be to early at all. But then again i dont know as much about film as others. but considering zds armour and supes cape i think it could be done well.