BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 96

[Tv's Phil]

We don't know anything about what this Lex is going to be like other than Eisenberg is playing him and we're just extrapolating from there.
We're assuming he's going to be more like the modern young CEOs of tech companies with an energetic PR face that appeals to the public. Which subsequently will give his turn as a villain more depth as he can play puppet master behind the scenes and likable public figure on the surface.

Who knows what he does when he really goes full villain. Could be power suit. Could not be.
But I don't doubt he can pull off the role I'm ASSUMING they're writing him.
I find a Lex that doesn't LOOK like a threat to a superpowered alien and even Batman but really is, very compelling.

 

[Iceman]

Is it necessary that she dress like the American flag?

I don't care too much that the colours are the flag colours but the red and blue do look good (to me) compared to all-bronze, irrespective of what they represent.

 

[Bathead]

If Batman can be an urban legend for 20 years he can be an urban legend for 30 years.

And where do you get that from? At most Batman would have been this so-called urban legend for maybe 5 years, if that.

 

[DA_Champion]

And where do you get that from? At most Batman would have been this so-called urban legend for maybe 5 years, if that.

This board has known for a year that Batman had been an urban legend for a long time in the MoSverse. It's an inevitable consequence of other pieces of information officially confirmed.

At the time of MoS, Superman is the only publicly acknowledged superhero, which Snyder and co have said many times. It was understood when it was announced that MoS would lead to an expanded DCCU that Superman would lead/found the justice league, either by recruiting new superheroes or joining forces with other heroes who have been operating in the shadows. Perhaps Wonder Woman has been secretly active for thousands of years.

When Ben Affleck was announced as Batman, we knew he would be in his mid 30s at a minimum and probably mid 40s. When it was said that he was tired and weary, we knew that he was a long-time veteran. Coupled with the fact that Superman is the first superhero operating out of the shadows, that leaves only one conclusion: Batman has been operating in the shadows. If he's in his mid 40s now and started at age 25 (reasonable), then he's been an urban legend for decades.

Everything I've said thus far is foolproof and beyond rational debate.

Everything I say following is speculation.

Batman is an urban legend within Gotham but significant parts of the police force, local government and possibly state government are aware of him. He chooses to remain an urban legend because the ambiguity of whether or not he exists makes him more frightening to criminals. They don't know if he's real, if there's one Batman or many Batmen, if he's a man or something else. They're scared, and Wayne likes it that way, he only cares about bringing fear to criminals. It also helps law enforcement because Batman can do the things they can't. However, after a few decades of this and several beatings, he slowly became bored and less interested, and further the progress he made in Gotham with Batman, though initially strong, stagnated with time. Gotham has reached a new equilibrium even with Batman and things have stopped improving.

Here comes news of this alien invasion. Batman had not made it to Metropolis on time before things were solved by the alien, whom Batman doesn't know if he should trust. He investigates the hero, confronts him, and they reach a cold truce. There's a new conflict that emerges, [insert plot of movie here], Superman ends up convincing Batman that rather than trying to strike fear into the hearts of criminals, he should bring hope to the hearts of the general population, that it's the next step in improving Gotham and Metropolis and the world, and that involves coming out in the open. Together, they found the Justice League.

 

[zryson]

This board has known for a year that Batman had been an urban legend for a long time in the MoSverse. It's an inevitable consequence of other pieces of information officially confirmed.

At the time of MoS, Superman is the only publicly acknowledged superhero, which Snyder and co have said many times. It was understood when it was announced that MoS would lead to an expanded DCCU that Superman would lead/found the justice league, either by recruiting new superheroes or joining forces with other heroes who have been operating in the shadows. Perhaps Wonder Woman has been secretly active for thousands of years.

When Ben Affleck was announced as Batman, we knew he would be in his mid 30s at a minimum and probably mid 40s. When it was said that he was tired and weary, we knew that he was a long-time veteran. Coupled with the fact that Superman is the first superhero operating out of the shadows, that leaves only one conclusion: Batman has been operating in the shadows. If he's in his mid 40s now and started at age 25 (reasonable), then he's been an urban legend for decades.

Everything I've said thus far is foolproof and beyond rational debate.

Batman as an urban legend for anything longer than a couple of years sounds washy. Likewise if he has been operating for a long time why no mention of it at the Daily Planet? Surely they would have covered him before too. As for Wonder Woman secretly active for thousands of years, I dont see that happening. No doubt, WB will go with a very basic origin story, probably Amazons stuck on an island, some calamity befalls them, and Diana ventures to Man's Land.

 

[Zionite1]

Batman is an urban legend within Gotham but significant parts of the police force, local government and possibly state government are aware of him. He chooses to remain an urban legend because the ambiguity of whether or not he exists makes him more frightening to criminals. They don't know if he's real, if there's one Batman or many Batmen, if he's a man or something else. They're scared, and Wayne likes it that way, he only cares about bringing fear to criminals. It also helps law enforcement because Batman can do the things they can't. However, after a few decades of this and several beatings, he slowly became bored and less interested, and further the progress he made in Gotham with Batman, though initially strong, stagnated with time. Gotham has reached a new equilibrium even with Batman and things have stopped improving.

Heres my Problem with Batman being an urban legend for so long.For it to work it would mean that in the 15 or so years of Bats being in operation he has never been in a Supervillain fight otherwise he'd have been forcibly exposed to the Public eye.So this "veteran"Bats has never faced Joker,2face,Bane,Blackmask etc?
Thats rather disappionting.

 

[DA_Champion]

Heres my Problem with Batman being an urban legend for so long.For it to work it would mean that in the 15 or so years of Bats being in operation he has never been in a Supervillain fight otherwise he'd have been forcibly exposed to the Public eye.So this "veteran"Bats has never faced Joker,2face,Bane,Blackmask etc?
Thats rather disappionting.

I assume that he's faced some of the super villains but not all, which I don't find disappointing. Batman has zillions of rogues, they won't all make it into the DCCU, and even fewer will make it into the DCCU backstory.

Ra's Al Ghul, Blackmask, Two-Face, etc. might not be particularly interested in playing to the media. Some of them might even find the cloud of conspiracy beneficial to their own aims. Penguin for example could be a mob boss with some mundane business dealings like restaurants and professional sports franchises that very few people suspect of engaging in trafficking of cocaine and sex workers.

In the Nolan films, the league of shadows was responsible for the fall of the roman empire, yet they stayed under the radar beyond the NSA/CIA characterising Bane as some miscellaneous terrorist, and everybody thought those movies were realistic.

 

[Zionite1]

I assume that he's faced some of the super villains but not all, which I don't find disappointing. Batman has zillions of rogues, they won't all make it into the DCCU, and even fewer will make it into the DCCU backstory.

Ra's Al Ghul, Blackmask, Two-Face, etc. might not be particularly interested in playing to the media. Some of them might even find the cloud of conspiracy beneficial to their own aims. Penguin for example could be a mob boss with some mundane business dealings like restaurants and professional sports franchises that very few people of engaging in trafficking of cocaine and sex workers.

In the Nolan films, the league of shadows was responsible for the fall of the roman empire, yet they stead under the radar beyond the NSA/CIA characterise Bane as some miscellaneous terrorist, and everybody thought those movies were realistic.

Hmmm you raise some good pionts and it could be pulled off if handled with skill.

 

[Bathead]

Batman as an urban legend for anything longer than a couple of years sounds washy. Likewise if he has been operating for a long time why no mention of it at the Daily Planet? Surely they would have covered him before too. As for Wonder Woman secretly active for thousands of years, I dont see that happening. No doubt, WB will go with a very basic origin story, probably Amazons stuck on an island, some calamity befalls them, and Diana ventures to Man's Land.

Yeah, him being an Urban Legend for any more than five years is simply unbelievable, no matter how you want to spin it.

 

[Bathead]

I assume that he's faced some of the super villains but not all, which I don't find disappointing. Batman has zillions of rogues, they won't all make it into the DCCU, and even fewer will make it into the DCCU backstory.

Ra's Al Ghul, Blackmask, Two-Face, etc. might not be particularly interested in playing to the media. Some of them might even find the cloud of conspiracy beneficial to their own aims. Penguin for example could be a mob boss with some mundane business dealings like restaurants and professional sports franchises that very few people of engaging in trafficking of cocaine and sex workers.

In the Nolan films, the league of shadows was responsible for the fall of the roman empire, yet they stead under the radar beyond the NSA/CIA characterise Bane as some miscellaneous terrorist, and everybody thought those movies were realistic.

You're leaving out the most significant of Batman villains, the Joker, who's always been shown to be a publicity hog and a show-off. If Batman has battled him even just once or twice, (and I think it's safe to say a lot more than that) then the public definitely knows about Batman and believes he exists as the Joker would have made these encounters highly publicized (even to the point of televising them), as the Joker is known to make public spectacles of these incidents. Just the Joker alone would have blown the Urban Legend thing to bits from the get-go.

 

[DA_Champion]

You're leaving out the most significant of Batman villains, the Joker, who's always been shown to be a publicity hog and a show-off. If Batman has battled him even just once or twice, (and I think it's safe to say a lot more than that) then the public definitely knows about Batman and believes he exists as the Joker would have made these encounters highly publicized (even to the point of televising them), as the Joker is known to make public spectacles of these incidents. Just the Joker alone would have blown the Urban Legend thing to bits from the get-go.

1) We don't know if the Joker has been around in this backstory.
2) Even if he has, when he starts talking about Batman the police can just tell people that he's crazy.

Did you read all of Bin Ladin's or the Unabomber's statements and take their ramblings at face value, or did you assume they was nuts?

 

[I Am The Knight]

This whole Batman has been an urban legend for 30 years is the biggest BS ever if true. So idiotic.

 

[dhandler01]

No but when the news gets a glimpse of the batmobile from a helicopter that would pretty much cinch it.

Lois figured out who Clark was based solely on rumor and innuendo...the Batman fighting crime in Gotham whether against the major rogues or just the mob would not be hidden n a world of surveillance and openess. This isnt grainy footage of Big Foot taken in the forest, these would be videos in high def taken, and not just one or two (like most urban legends) out in the middle of nowhere but hundreds if not thousnds of them of him running around one of the biggest cities in the country. Someone would have looked into it and it would not be hard to connect the dots.

it just doesnt pass the smell test...

 

[DA_Champion]

No but when the news gets a glimpse of the batmobile from a helicopter that would pretty much cinch it.

Lois figured out who Clark was based solely on rumor and innuendo...the Batman fighting crime in Gotham whether against the major rogues or just the mob would not be hidden n a world of surveillance and openess. This isnt grainy footage of Big Foot taken in the forest, these would be videos in high def taken, and not just one or two (like most urban legends) out in the middle of nowhere but hundreds if not thousnds of them of him running around one of the biggest cities in the country. Someone would have looked into it and it would not be hard to connect the dots.

it just doesnt pass the smell test...

People had no problem with the dialogue in Batman Begins where it's revealed that the league of shadows was responsible for the economic ruin of Gotham 20 years prior, let alone the fall of the roman empire two thousand years prior.

Lois tracked down Clark who was not super-skilled at covering his tracks. Clark did what he could. Batman is more competent and might have the complicity of parts of the Gotham PD and civic government backing him.

BTW, there are countless videos of UFOs on youtube and other kinds of accounts for which you would never be able to decipher if they are photoshopped or not (and no doubt thousands of bad ones). You probably don't assume that elements within the government are hiding the proof.

And you know, there may be tons of Batman footage in modern Gotham, from all the copycats and the fake photoshop jobs, such that when people hear of a Batman sighting "with video!!!" they ignore.

Some of you lack imagination. I remind you that this is a fictional universe, with an Amazonian warrior Goddess, a billionaire who dresses like a Bat at night to beat up criminals and nobody can figure out who he is and he never gets killed, and aliens who look human and have human psychology and who can float in space and lift buildings and fly at 100x the speed of sound from being powered from the Sun's luminosity of ~1,000 watts per square meter at surface level.

The League of Shadows being the most powerful organisation on Earth for thousands of years is ok. The Joker taking over all of Gotham and poisoning the head of police and a senior judge by being able to influence mentally ill patients is ok. A "world-builder" that can turn Earth into Krypton and increase its gravity by firing an energy beam is ok. When the world-builder is stopped after having increased the Earth's gravity enough for it to be measurable there are not countless Earthquakes and volcanic eruptions releasing the new energy as per the laws of physics and that's ok.

All of that is ok.

Batman being an urban legend?

OMG that's not realistic !!!

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Batman could have a device that disables cameras.

Simple.

 

[Travesty]

I'm not understand your correlation with the LOS and the rumor of how Batman is a myth for 20+ years?

 

[I Am The Knight]

People had no problem with the dialogue in Batman Begins where it's revealed that the league of shadows was responsible for the economic ruin of Gotham 20 years prior, let alone the fall of the roman empire two thousand years prior.

They work in the "shadows". They infiltrate organizations secretly. They don't go out at night in tanks, and they don't have LOS signals.

Lois tracked down Clark who was not super-skilled at covering his tracks. Clark did what he could. Batman is more competent and might have the complicity of parts of the Gotham PD and civic government backing him.

lol

I REALLY doubt the Miller loving Snyder will have Batman working with the government

I'm sorry, but if Lois was able to find Superman in 5 minutes, she can find Bats, too.

BTW, there are countless videos of UFOs on youtube and other kinds of accounts for which you would never be able to decipher if they are photoshopped or not (and no doubt thousands of bad ones). You probably don't assume that elements within the government are hiding the proof.

Oh Lawd...Get your tinfoil hats.

And you know, there may be tons of Batman footage in modern Gotham, from all the copycats and the fake photoshop jobs, such that when people hear of a Batman sighting "with video!!!" they ignore.

All the copycats with tanks and Batsignals who are also extremely skilled martial artists with cool looking muscle suits That will totally happen.

Some of you lack imagination. I remind you that this is a fictional universe, with an Amazonian warrior Goddess, a billionaire who dresses like a Bat at night to beat up criminals and nobody can figure out who he is and he never gets killed, and aliens who look human and have human psychology and who can float in space and lift buildings and fly at 100x the speed of sound from being powered from the Sun's luminosity of ~1,000 watts per square meter at surface level.

All the WW crap = power of the gods?

All the Supes crap = alien

All the Batman crap = it could kinda happen. He wears armor after all.

The League of Shadows being the most powerful organisation on Earth for thousands of years is ok. The Joker taking over all of Gotham and poisoning the head of police and a senior judge by being able to influence mentally ill patients is ok. A "world-builder" that can turn Earth into Krypton and increase its gravity by firing an energy beam is ok. When the world-builder is stopped after having increased the Earth's gravity enough for it to be measurable there are not countless Earthquakes and volcanic eruptions releasing the new energy as per the laws of physics and that's ok.

All of that is ok.

Batman being an urban legend for 30 years?

OMG that's not realistic !!!

Fixed.

I don't know why you're making so many excuses for this crap. You must really love the idea, but even you must realize it sounds really iffy, surely.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

I agree with DA Champion, albeit 20+ years is pushing it IMO.

10 years at the most for me, but 5 as an urban legend would be ideal.

 

[Travesty]

I would say 1 year at the most, and that's pushing it.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

He was Batman for 20 years is ok, this Batman is as old as Ben Affleck, when the movie comes out Ben will be that old anyway

30 years sounds like he was Batman since he was 11

 

[DA_Champion]

Edited to Add:

Guardians of the Galaxy had infinity stones, a purple moron floating on a throne in asteroid belt, asteroid belts where they spacing between the asteroids was comparable to the size of the asteroids, the creature Groot, and a giant alien head floating in deep space.

And people complained about Peter Quill surviving the vacuum of deep space for thirty seconds due to it being unrealistic, which is actually totally realistic

 

[DA_Champion]

All the WW crap = power of the gods?

All the Supes crap = alien

All the Batman crap = it could kinda happen. He wears armor after all.

There are no gods, no aliens who look and think exactly like humans, and no Batman could not happen.

 

[Lencho01]

Am I the only one who thinks Batman as an urban legend is silly? The concept of Batman is pretty silly, period.

 

[DA_Champion]

I'm not understand your correlation with the LOS and the rumor of how Batman is a myth for 20+ years?

I pointed to it as an example of people previously believing the totally implausible because it was presented as is within a fictional movie.

No organisation like The League of Shadows as presented in Batman Begins or Hydra as presented in First Avenger / The Winter Soldier could ever exist. They're both completely implausible, on the level of Batman and all of his characteristics being completely implausible.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

His adventures would have to be few and far between. And meticulously planned.

Then I'd have to question the point of this factoid anyway.