BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 96

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That's my favorite part as well. Brian Azzarello wrote it. He's usually on point when it comes to Batman.

The only one that I really had a problem with was "have I got a story for you" and I think it's almost entirely because of the art, it was just distractingly bad for me. "working through pain" was just fantastic though with its story, enjoyed the rest of them too, a lot of great imagery as well, especially Bats walking through fire in "crossfire" I wish that TDK and TDKR had evolved in a more fantastical direction like Gotham Knight as opposed to becoming less stylized and fantastic.

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The only one that I really had a problem with was "have I got a story for you" and I think it's almost entirely because of the art, it was just distractingly bad for me. "working through pain" was just fantastic though with its story, enjoyed the rest of them too, a lot of great imagery as well, especially Bats walking through fire in "crossfire" I wish that TDK and TDKR had evolved in a more fantastical direction like Gotham Knight as opposed to becoming less stylized and fantastic.

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I love the metaphorical aspect of Azzarello's Working Through Pain. On the surface, young Bruce is seeking out a means of keeping his physical pain in check; while, in the present-day, an incapacitated Batman refuses to take Alfred's hand because of his unwillingness to let go of the guns he's gathered for disposal (symbolic of the character's lifelong obsession with the murder of his parents). If you look even further, though, young Bruce has another motive; he's also trying to find a way to deal with his spiritual suffering, something Cassandra, his mentor, can't really help him with; and that's echoed in the final scene with Alfred. In both instances, Bruce fails to receive aid from two separate individuals who are more than capable of providing him such, and that's because he just won't let go.
 
A Tall Order for Jim Gordon.
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The Good. The Evil. The Beginning.
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The Series Premiere is Almost Here!
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one day Ben McKenzie will don the mustache. But first, he must earn it.
 
I said every criminal claiming they've seen Dracula doesn't stop dracula(and by extension vampires) from being an urban legend as far as I'm concerned.

Again, Dracula doesn't go out every night in a Dracula tank, doesn't respond to summons by way of a Dracula signal, is not seen and felt by people and criminals. Doesn't apply buddy.

Never said two words about declaring them all insane,

Well that's the only way that would work. Some big government conspiracy where for some reason "No one must there is a Batman. Quick, say all these people are insane. Deny, deny deny!" Why?

just that the public won't then confirm Vampires as anything more than a myth. Criminals tell stories. Like if every criminal declared they have been arrested by a crooked cop..."sure pal nice story, that's about the 40th time I've heard it this week, let's get to the logical truth of the matter at trial".

Marvin baby, do you even read what you post. 30 years of sightings and stories, and the occasional video and photo, and old Bats is still just a myth.

Lol

The problem here is what you are choosing to classify as "Charte Blanche". That would imply I'm suggesting something far and away ludicrous; f you are willing to swallow this clear stretch of logic then this expansion on the fantastical premise shouldn't be so hard. Never said now batman can open portals with his mind see; 'charte blanche'. Save your that line of discussion for when and where it actually applies.
That batman even works for 20 straight years is a massive stretch by all rights, that he can maintain a level of definitive exposure is hardly pushing that fun to it's breaking point. Maybe if I said that he's never been shot or bloodied...all this talk of the rules that are set up but can't be broken, who's breaking them?

That's what makes this rumor even worse, not only has he been doing this for 30 years (in the "grounded" universe they set up haha) but on top of that, people still believe he is an urban legend. Again, the only way this works is if they change how operates. Lame.

That you want to keep discarding just how easy it would be for the present gov't to put a stop to (nolan level) batman...Even Bruce Tim dances on this idea with his incarnation of Amanda Waller and her reach by way of gov't intel. I find it more or less convenient to your point to suggest the CIA are something external to the material, when central intelligence seems fully involved in the batman mythos(and in TDKR) and better yet, would be in a more realistic reading of the material given just how much of his activities aren't limited to one state. That he could so easily get that jet around a major US city and not be flagged, pre or post 911...I digress, I'm not really in the business of poking holes in this stuff, that's the other side tbh.

Again, push it too far and it's game over. You have to uspend disbelief for some things, but that doesn't mean you have to accept everything they throw at you. Well, you're quite willing, I see. Others may have other standards :word:

We accept that he doesn't die on his first night out because otherwise you have no mythos. We accept the "cia lol" doesn't shut him down right away because then you're hurting the mythos. This 30 years an urban legend crap is completely unnecesary.

I just don't think enough people grasp just what proposed by the concept of an urban legend or myth. People keep harping on the idea of sightings and evidence as if that works against such a thing, that's the crux of this entire discussion it seems. How can he stay a myth if people see his tank. The premise of the myth isn't undermined by sightings, it's often enforced by it. How many people have seen UFO's? How many youtube videos can be pulled up right now with a ufo sighting? Do these videos enforce the myth or the reality? If we had a reported sighting of the same UFO crafts in the same mid western city once a month for the next 12 months; you know the way people report sighting this unknown/unclaimed street tank, that wouldn't all of a sudden prove aliens any more real than they are believed to be now. If an 'alien' in a tuxedo showed up on Jimmy Kimmel tmr night and a massive audience 'saw' this, just how many people would believe aliens were real vs what the logic would argue about that guest spot...

Sigh...

Again, 30 years of footage, pictures and stories of the same UFO, in the same city, with the same M.O. with an official UFO signal on top of POLICE HEADQUARTERS (not on top of random alien conspiracy dudes' apartment) and yet, everyone in Gotham is like "oh yeah that Batman guy, lol". I mean...

This is common sense, dude.

Also, people believe things that they only know through the media all the time. If the TV says there is a Batman, they don't have to meet the guy to start believin' :word:

Change the way batman operates? Nah, hollywood has already done plenty of that. I'm merely suggesting he goes back to the more hidden in shadows, only at night, never ending up on the 6pm news, ninja like approach he's seemingly grounded in. Again, this isn't Spiderman, the premise actually allows for this sort of approach(again, this isn't spiderman) organically, it's very much like Blade: Saving the world from Gods and Demons every weekend and still seen as just the 'Boogyman', by criminals, people and even vampires alike. No one said batman has to do his work without being seen by anyone, it's a matter of it never being taken further than just that.

So you don't want to change the way he operates....Yet you suggest Blade and "saving the world every weekend" ? Hahaha. Batman doesn't go out "every weekend", he goes out virtually every night. What I remember from Blade is that he is not as public as the Batman tends to be.

By the way, it's Spider-Man.

Take everything you just said about people seeing and being punched by batman and journalists and normal people connecting the dots and wrap it around the issue of reported alien abductions and the people who 'you know talk' and the few journalists that actually try and editorialize it with a straight face, and you'll probably be able to imagine the smug face I'm making right now.

Yeah, because aliens operate in a major american city every night in loud tanks, and are endorsed by the police!! Totally the same!! Nice try Marvin.

In closing, circumstantial evidence and eye witness speculation can only go so far into proving something is anything more than a hoax or myth. I heard Elvis and Tupac are still alive, and get this, lot's of people have seen them, some even have it on(get this) camera. It's been what, decades of this now?
/discussion imo

Yawn. Read above. Getting tired of your dumb examples that don't work in the context of how Batman operates and is seen.

Like with all things proposed, I won't hate on it till I see it fail. Rumor or otherwise.

But you sure will defend it :word:
 
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5 posts on the subject in the span of a month = desperate?

What about last month? :hehe: Just messin' with you.

I sometimes forget that this forum has too many twelve-year olds, thanks for reminding me.

So a twelve-year old is able to refute your deba
te points? Imagine the powa I will have when I become an adult!!
 
I_Am_The_Knight

you are 12? You've been on this site since you were 3?
 
Fox Gives DC Comics’ ‘Lucifer’ Adaptation Put Pilot Commitment
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Less than a week before Fox’s hotly-anticipated “Gotham” premieres, the network has given a put pilot commitment to another DC Comics-inspired property. “Lucifer,” based on the eponymous Vertigo comic of the same name, centers around the Lord of Hell after he grows bored and unhappy with the position, resigns his throne and abandons his kingdom for the gorgeous, shimmering insanity of Los Angeles, where he opens an exclusive piano bar called Lux.

The one-hour drama pilot hails from “Californication” creator Tom Kapinos, with Aggressive Mediocrity and Warner Bros. Television producing.

The order is the latest in a slew of comicbook properties to hit the small screen; last week, it was revealed that TNT is in development on a “Titans” series based on the characters from DC’s “Teen Titans,” with Greg Berlanti also working on a proposed “Supergirl” reboot.

This season, “Gotham” joins “Arrow” spinoff “The Flash,” “Constantine” and “iZombie” among DC’s small screen adaptations. Over at Marvel, midseason will see the debut of “Agents of SHIELD” spinoff “Agent Carter,” with four Netflix series based on Marvel’s Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Iron Fist scheduled to begin rolling out from 2015.
 
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Marvin baby...
naughty:cwink:

We accept that he doesn't die on his first night out because otherwise you have no mythos. We accept the "cia lol" doesn't shut him down right away because then you're hurting the mythos. This 30 years an urban legend crap is completely unnecesary.
That's all well and good that you make exceptions based on the mythos needing to exist, just don't then go and act like it's about stuff like logic solely. I see now where you base you logical standards from, I suppose we all have our price, 30 pieces it seems:yay:.
Secondly, I never said they'd shut him down right a way. I said central intelligence and their equivalent would shut him down and or only let him operate under their agenda(ala what's happening currently on Arrow).

Yawn. Read above. Getting tired of your dumb examples that don't work in the context of how Batman operates and is seen.
You said lots of people have seen him did you not? I said lots of people have claimed to 'seen' Elvis and Ghosts and all sorts of unbelievable crap, how does that affect my belief as an individual in this world? What about batman's context invalidates the idea that just because lots of people claim an urban legend true that it doesn't all of a sudden become as such? See below

As for you contextual example of how you assume batman operates, for one, you don't know that any of that applies in this continuity. Loud or even quiet tanks(30 years worth), every night, endorsed by police(I don't need an endorsed batman for his entire career)...Secondly, all of that can be easily explained as a hoax(who is in the tank, the signal is an obvious deterrent..etc). The batman is just a myth cooked up by the twisted powers that be in a twisted city, he's not real; is a easy line reading from anyone in a movie about batman and that's the point. You can't play that game with Superman for he doesn't operate in the urban legend realm. That being said, your diatribe is contingent on batman operating a certain way, and sure he doesn't have to, I suppose that sucks for fans like you.

On this issue of "every night"...sorry but that's a joke. Christian Bale could tell you all the ways. But then again, I forget we aren't talking about that one, we are talking about the one from this movie right...You are the man privy to all that info I suppose.
This thing about the Tank, sorry but a 12 year old or some woman see's the ghost busters car with it's four ghost busters in it and it's giant logos plastered all about is being given affirmation that the 'ghost busters' exist. This same scenario with some non descrip vehicle at night and people aren't necessarily being given anything they will then correlate to 'the batman'. Again the car doesn't have wings and bat symbols on the hub caps, it's just a military vehicle in black. Like people seeing a fancy sword on the ground and correlating that to blade, or the big black jet and shouting Xmen. Different with Reed Richards flying car...

Unlike Blade, Bruce Wayne actually has a life, both one he attends to during the days as well as the nights, if anything Blade is way more active in costume than batman(I assume he sleeps in it if he sleeps at all). And yes, I said saving the world every weekend cause unlike batman, it's very much the world. But sure he saves the world here and there but fights the under world all the time, and yet he remains a myth to even his enemies. That you insist batman is more public in his operation, I grieve for the mythos. Not sure who I want to blame for that. Perhaps Adam West.
Batman(like Blade) could be argued the Boogyman, dreamed up to keep 'bad' in line.

Also, this 30 years thing. Sorry if I'm missing something but at just which age was Wayne when he started working in costume; tank in tow and signal in sky? Again, I tend to imagine this film will fall somewhere in line with what Nolan did, and that batman didn't look like teenager in that costume, I suppose we don't know how old Keaton was in his early days:cwink:. Secondly just how old is Ben Playing in this movie according to his look and reports? Give or take the years of retirement he's supposedly coming out of? Somewhere in all of that is how you are arriving at this 30 years correct?
Quickly give my your (estimated official batman)numbers if it's not too much trouble, there is a mystery afoot.

let me highlight this next little bit
Sigh...

Again, 30 years of footage, pictures and stories of the same UFO, in the same city, with the same M.O. with an official UFO signal on top of POLICE HEADQUARTERS (not on top of random alien conspiracy dudes' apartment) and yet, everyone in Gotham is like "oh yeah that Batman guy, lol". I mean...

This is common sense, dude.

Also, people believe things that they only know through the media all the time. If the TV says there is a Batman, they don't have to meet the guy to start believin' :word:
....right here in the bolded. Please tell me where I said that people, some or any wouldn't believe? Again you misunderstand the term Urban Legend. That is, lots of people believe in these things(happy?). Often times helped by the media. There is a difference in that level of existence and the level of belief in Superman's at the end of MOS. This difference of worldly belief and conscious understanding is what is being contrasted and explained here. Example:

JLU War, The flash comes face to face with batman and the first this he utters, something along the lines of "Batman is real?" Insinuating he's heard stories and reports and heard about the signal but..."..I can't believe the Batman is real". Not too different from the typical response someone would have if they met Santa Claus after hearing about his stories and myth for years. The batman comes face to face with the Flash knowing him to be real and guess what his response is...There's a difference. At the end of that movie when all heroes are in their presidential photo op confirming their existence..that's the sort of thing that ends an urban legend. Again, I'm not talking about 30 years or the tank in this comparison, only explaining how people can know and hear about an urban legend but never actually know if it's real or not for that's literally what an urban legend is. It's plausible.

This is the actual 'common sense dude' if you will.
Batman shows up in BvS and superman says, "you're real?"
And I suppose that's the end of it.

But you sure will defend it :word:
Comes with the territory when having an open mind. I feel the same way when I hear someone bash a cake neither of us has yet tried. Especially when they start talking about how chocolate and vanilla don't mix or some crap. I see the burden on the opposition tbh.
 
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I don't think being open-minded means you have to automatically be willing to defend every little rumor. Just because to me the urband legend rumor sounds pretty lame on paper, doesn't mean I'm not going to be open to the idea of it working in the movie and the movie being good overall -either in spite of it or because of it.

Marvin, you know me from the TMNT subforum so you know my goal isn't just to blindly hate on everything. The urban legend rumor just makes me raise an eyebrow, that's all, and I'm even putting too much stock into the rumor tbh.
 
I always thought that was pretty daring for a kids show since they portrayed "Joel" as obviously gay and we're taking a jab at Schumacher .

Indeed, and TBH, that kind a bothered me a bit. The joke would have been as funny without the perceived "gayness" of the kid.
 
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