Are Nice Guys Doormats For Women???

[C.F. Kane]

[doesn't read thread all the way through]

The answer is no. Nice guys with no spine and MONEY are doormats for women.

 

[scifiwolf]

Well, it seems as if the correct answer has been thrown out there. I'm the quintessential "nice guy," or at least that's what I've been told by pretty much every girl who's commented on my appeal. While women like bad boys, they love nice guys, just so long as said guy isn't a total puss.

 

[Erzengel]

Lots of words.

Nell,

Honestly, you're biased. You're a guy who's had several soured experiences when it comes to women which has given you this very jaded outlook on them and relationships.

Are some women materialistic, shallow, vain etc? Yeah.

You are 24 years old. You should be out of college, taking some sort of entry level job, and living out on your own. You think it's okay for someone to still have a go nowhere job, or live at home at 24 (Not saying that's you)? How about at 26? 28? 30? When's the cut off point?

I've said this before, whomever said all you need is love, was never poor. There's nothing wrong with a woman wanting to live comfortably. Do you think a 28 year old woman wants a guy who still lives at home, works at some dinky job because that's what he's comfortable at?

As people grow older, their priorities change. Yeah it's fine if you are both college students, having fun. But after college, responsibility comes into play and yes a lot women get the epiphany that the a'hole types aren't really marriage material.

And coming to "a good man is hard to find", I'm sure you can ask most women and I'm sure their a'hole to good guy ratio swings more towards the a'hole. I'm sure a lot of the female posters here, can tell you how many a'holes they had to date before they found the right one, or how they find it hard to find a good guy.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I want to find out how many times "ass****" has been said in this thread.

 

[Ghostvirus]

I understand that physical attraction -is- important. And if a woman simply put isn't attracted to me, then I understand.

Trust me, not every woman who has rejected me has been a *****. I don't get disgruntled and think a woman is stupid -just- because she rejected me. I have had a few occassions where a woman has turned me down, and I still appreciated her and respected her because it was clear that for whatever reason, her and I just didn't click. I can accept that.

I also know that there are quite a few occassions in which I um... just didn't handle the situation properly. And I can name off quite a few occassions where I was a complete dip**** in the situation, and quite frankly, didn't deserve to land the girl.

But, I do believe the situation is true - women -say- they want a good man, but when that good man is right in front of their face, they don't want him. All this "pushover", and "excitement" bull**** is really just an -excuse- for women, I believe, to try to justify all of their ****ty choices in men, because they are too shallow to actually choose someone who will treat them with respect and dignity, but offers less of the materialistic goods.

No, not all women are like this. I know -plenty- of women who love their men, their men really -is- the good guy, and they truly appreciate him for who he is, regardless of his materialistic provisions. So yea, I know that not all women are the shallow beasts that many disgruntled men make them out to be. Unfortunatley for me, all the good women that I know are taken.

But if you say that men *****ing about women not wanting the nice guy is just us making excuses, then I say that women claiming they don't want "pushovers", or they go for the bad guys because he's "exciting" is just a pathetic excuse women use to justify their shallow decisions.

Why does is automatically make us a pushover to have the mentality that we would do -anything- for our women? Hell, I am like that now, with a woman who I am not trying to attract. She is one of my best friends, and she is with a friend of mine. I am not, in the least bit, trying to attract her. But I would do anything for her, and I've done everything for her. It's not because I'm some kind of pushover. It's because I have a kind heart, and the people who I care about, I simply would do anything for. And quite frankly, she is -worth- all of the effort that I put in to do things for her, and to take care of her.

It doesn't make me a pushover. I don't do these things because she wants me to. I do these things because -I- want to. Because I love her. Because I value her. And because I am a very generous, caring, and giving person.

But those attributes are, unfairly, judged by women as being a pushover. Being unable to say no. Being weak.

Good men aren't hard to find. Women just choose not to see it.

Sorry, a relationship... a REAL relationship, that is about true love, and commitment, is not about images, and games. It's not about being "exciting". It's not about being able to say "no". It's not about any of those "rules" that women put on men. It's about finding someone who you connect with. I believe there are 3 levels of connection in a relationship - mental, physical, and emotional. All 3 of those are equally important, so if a woman is simply put not attracted to me physically, or mentally, or does not have that emotional investment, then fine. I understand that.

But women automatically don't -allow- themselves to get those attatchments because a man doesn't meet particular requirements. Oh, he doesn't have an ambitious enough job. Oh big ****ing deal. Oh he still lives with his parents. Big deal, I know -lots- of people who still live at home. Living at home doesn't equate to being some awkward loser ass nerd sitting on a computer in his mom's basement. Sometimes you're still at home just because you need a little bit of assistance to make it in this world.

I'm confident. I have my own ambitions and goals that I want to pursue. It has nothing to do with that.

But, women don't come to me, and I truly do believe it is, in large part, due to shallow games that women play. Because they value "sponanaity", "excitement", and all that bull**** over that true connection that people share in a real relationship. They don't allow themselves to even get to know who I am as a person, they've made up their mind already because of my car, or because of whatever they want to make that decision on.

Hey, sorry that I haven't travelled the world. Sorry that if we're together, I'm not going to be taking you on fabulous trips to Europe, and Asia, and Australia. Sorry that I don't have connections to get you into all of the coolest parties in town, and sorry that I don't know everybody who's anybody. Sorry that I'm still working retail, because I haven't yet accomplished by career objectives yet, and I'm sorry that it took me a bit longer than it should to get my educational career truly on track.

Those are the shallow things that piss me off about women. Always talking about "excitement", and "spontanaity".

"Surprise me!" "Do something unexpected!" "Take me somewhere I wouldn't expect!"

You know what? That kind of stuff is fun. Yes! I agree.

But because I can't provide that to you, all of a sudden I'm some unconfident, unambitious "nice guy" who lets women walk all over him because he can't assert himself.

Not realizing that if you -were- my girlfriend, I would freaking give the world for you. I would treat you with all of the respect and dignity that you deserved. I would give you all of the emotional attention you ever desired. I would love you more than anything in this whole world. And I would do absolutley -anything- for you to take care of you, to protect you, and to make you happy.

It has absolutley nothing to do with being a pushover. It has absolutley nothing to do with being unambitious, or unconfident. It has everything to do with the fact that I -am- a loving, generous, and caring person, and when somebody means so much to me, I would do absolutley -everything- to show how I feel about that person.

That is exactly what women ***** about not having. That is exactly what women say they want. But that is also exactly what women refuse to see when it is in front of their face.

And when I say women, again, I don't mean all women. I am pretty frustrated and disgruntled with women, but I also realize that not all women are shallow. Not all women are *****es. And definatley not every women was even wrong to turn me down.

Attraction -is- important, and you sometimes just don't have that for someone. And you cannot blame someone for not being attracted to another person. There are plenty of women that I simply am not attracted to, and they are probably great women. And yes, I'm been attracted to my fair share of bad women also. It's not a matter of "I'm a nice guy, so women should flock to me"

Women have rejected me, and I have understood, and felt no hard feelings, other than my own personal disappointment because things didn't go the way I wanted. I also have dealt with situations in which I do not blame the woman one bit for rejecting me, because simply put, I acted like a moron.

But I honestly do feel that women, in general, do not appreciate the good man. You can make your claims about how they want someone assertive, or not a pushover, or confident, or what have you. But I call bull****. I think women want you to be exactly a certain way, and they don't appreciate what truly matters in a person. A person who is nice, because he wants to be, is a "pushover" when that's simply not the case. A person who is nice, because he wants to be, is "unassertive", or "unconfident", or "not exciting", when that's simply not the case. Women just don't want to give it a chance, because it's not flashed in front of your face.

Women say "be yourself", but they don't want you to be yourself. They want you to be this fabricated image of what they think is "exciting". They get duped into the act, and then act like there are no god men around. When that good man probably already approached her, and she wouldn't even give him the time of day because his package (and I'm not just talking about his outside physical looks) wasn't "exciting" enough.

That was long, sorry.

You gotta stop writing these novels, bro.

I pretty much totally agree with what you said. How ever I do think it goes both ways.

I do get frustrated at the hoops that I feel I need to go through in order to snag a woman. You are right in that is should really just be about connection. Not about Cars, money, etc...

Not to mention woman I have noticed also make automatic assumptions right out the gate. Like if a person is dressed down they assume he is poor. When it could just be laundry day. Things like that, that cost woman a possibly great opportunity.

I don't blame the woman though. I blame society. Look at the Arby's commercials. These are some of the most sexist commercials I have ever seen in my life! I know they are supposed to be jokey, but a pregnant women eating a thick burger! A man you doesn't use the oven to cook in, but as a magazine rack!

That is the type of society we live in. Woman are smart, & men should consider themselves lucky that a woman let them hang. F*** that!

 

[KenK]

And that's what's scaring me now, as it seems like my current relationship is coming to an end. The prospect of having to work that much harder to get someone was as good as, if not better than she was. And it's just boggling my mind, because she's on this whole kick where she thinks nothing of the fact that we haven't been on an actual date in over two months, and she wants me to be assured that we're still together! And it just sucks because early in our relationship, she'd always express her concern if she felt we weren't seeing each other often enough, and I would understand. And it's not like whole weeks would go by, it'd be like a day, and she'd be like "we don't see each other enough! Why don't you just want to be with me?!?" I bring up the same concerns now, especially with the "no dates in two months" thing (and no sex in the last FOUR months), and she doesn't wanna hear it. She actually told me to "man-up" and quit complaining! What the hell?!

Mind you, when we started dating she told me about the guy she dated before me, and how he essentially just stopped talking to her. He never officially broke up with her, and that seems to be what she's doing with me, because I swear to God, between her belief that man should always be the one to call a woman anyway, and the fact that it now takes her DAYS to return my phone calls, I wouldn't put it past her to do some foul s**t like that.

And it's the excuses! Jesus Christ. Now granted, her schedule does suck, it's retail and weekends are often involved, so I've always tried to be understanding and accomodating, but if ever I ask her out recently, it's always "Yeah, maybe. Let me check my schedule." Then she NEVER FOLLOWS UP!! It'd be one thing if she said, "My schedule is bad this week, sorry." But she always implies that she "might" be available, then never gets back to me to let me know she's not. And if it's not that, it's her ever-increasingly frequent visits to see her folks in Charlottesville, VA. So on top of her being out of town, I'll ask her out when she gets back into town and it's "I just feel like I need some time to myself now that I'm back from Charlottesville." Then, once it seems like enough time has passed, I'll ask her out again and then it's "Maybe, my brother (FROM CHARLOTTESVILLE, SO SHE SAW HIM WHILE SHE WAS JUST THERE!!!) is supposed to be visiting me this weekend." And again, no follow-up call or nothing.


And I'd like to think I've been a nice guy the whole relationship. You hear about guys just being straight dogs even though they're supposed to be in relationships and here I am, having no problem being a one-woman man, and caring about her needs and so on and so forth. So if it's really over, why the f*** can't you just be straight instead of pretending I don't exist anymore?!? You say I'm such a special person and you're grateful for me being in your life, but you treat me like some random dude you don't have to acknowledge after a year and a f***ing half?!?! And for God's sake, she just turned 31 (she's older than me by four years), how much time does she really have to dick around, and then down the road complain that there are no good men out there!

 

[Erzengel]

Trust, communication and intimacy are the big 3 in any relationship. It sounds like all 3 are lacking and she doesn't want to acknowledge any of that, maybe it is best to just cut your loses and move on.

 

[jaguarr]

And that's what's caring me now, as it seems like my current relationship is coming to an end. The prospect of having to work that much harder to get someone was good as she was. And it's just boggling my mind, because she's on this whole kick where she thinks nothing of the fact that we haven't been on an actual date in over two months, and she wants me to be assured that we're still together! And it just sucks because early in our relationship, she's always express her concern if she felt we weren't seeing each other often enough, and I would understand. And it's not like whole weeks would go by, it'd be like a day, and she'd be like "we don't see each other enough!" I bring up the same concerns now, especially with the no dates in two months thing (and no sex in the last FOUR months), and she doesn't wanna hear it. She actually told me to "man-up" and quit complaining! What the hell!

Mind you, when we started dating she told me about the guy she dated before me, and how he essentially just stopped talking to her. He never officially broke up with her, and that seems to be what she's doing with me, because I swear to God, between her belief that man should always be the one to call a woman anyway, and the fact that it now takes her DAYS to return my phone calls, I wouldn't put it past her to do some foul s**t like that.

Erz is right, the big three components are missing. My advice to you? End it with her. Just tell her it's no longer something you want to be involved in and that you don't want to see her anymore. You deserve better than this, my friend. Get out of it and move on with your life. This girl's not someone you want to spend your life with. Easier said than done, I know, but sometimes you've got to be cutthroat and ruthless about dating and love.

jag

 

[jaguarr]

I want to find out how many times "ass****" has been said in this thread.

Does that include the "a-hole" variants? Because that would raise the percentage considerably.

jag

 

[Anita18]

And coming to "a good man is hard to find", I'm sure you can ask most women and I'm sure their a'hole to good guy ratio swings more towards the a'hole. I'm sure a lot of the female posters here, can tell you how many a'holes they had to date before they found the right one, or how they find it hard to find a good guy.

I think that most women are dumb. I think that most men are dumb. Actually I think that most PEOPLE are dumb, so it all works out equally in the end. t: I'm glad I don't have to think about relationships most of the time, LOL. I figure that with the right person, it won't have to be so complicated.

I don't think that dating around will necessarily land you a good guy. I've only dated ONE guy my entire life, and he was a great guy. Just not the right guy for me, and that's all right. And I've known many people who simply have bad tastes in significant others, but....what can ya do?

I don't attract men, generally. I don't think it's because I'm a bad person or because I'm hideous (actually, the boy-crazy friend of mine has said many times, "If I were as skinny as you, I'd sleep with so many boys!"), but mostly because I'm just not interested in whoever's out there. Just not attracted to most guys in general. I give off that "I'm not interested in you" vibe, and guys leave me alone. It works out pretty okay for me, but I haven't had a crush on anyone in a really long time. Maybe it'll bug me when that happens and he doesn't feel the same way. But for now, it's all one big meh for me. I'm an introvert, I'm a loner. I'm perfectly fine not being in a relationship until the right person comes along, because I'm too damn lazy to make something work when I'm not feeling it.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Lesbian

 

[jaguarr]

Anita, most people aren't dumb (well, maybe a little bit), but they are pretty damn selfish. That's what creates so many issues in relationships in my experience.

jag

 

[Erzengel]

I don't think that dating around will necessarily land you a good guy. I've only dated ONE guy my entire life, and he was a great guy. Just not the right guy for me, and that's all right. And I've known many people who simply have bad tastes in significant others, but....what can ya do?

It's possible for you to meet the right person right off the bat but for a lot of people, it's an ongoing process.

Dating around I feel beats the alternative of sitting on your hands waiting for things to happen to you which so many guys here seem to want. "Why can't a girl ask me out?"

With you it's obviously different, you are happy where you are and don't really seem interested in meeting someone which is fine. But, if I was single I'd be more proactive in searching seeing as, I work in a small workplace, most of my friends are attached, so sitting on my hands would just seem too passive for me.

 

[Anita18]

Lesbian

I've been called that before. I'm strangely entranced by cleavage, but I think it's mostly because I don't have any and therefore it's fascinating. But when I think of cuddling up to someone, they're always guys. And guy parts turn me on more than girl parts.

Anita, most people aren't dumb (well, maybe a little bit), but they are pretty damn selfish. That's what creates so many issues in relationships in my experience.

True.

Dating around I feel beats the alternative of sitting on your hands waiting for things to happen to you which so many guys here seem to want. "Why can't a girl ask me out?"

With you it's obviously different, you are happy where you are and don't really seem interested in meeting someone which is fine. But, if I was single I'd be more proactive in searching seeing as, I work in a small workplace, most of my friends are attached, so sitting on my hands would just seem too passive for me.

I don't wait for things to happen to me - I make them happen myself, but it's different in a relationship. You can't make someone like you, or make someone more compatible with you if they aren't.

I have tried the online dating thing, and it hasn't worked. I just don't get any chemistry even with guys who have similar interests as me. Plus, I have other things that I'd like to do that are higher on my list than "finding a boyfriend." So, I figure I'll just live life the way I want to, and I'll meet the right person eventually. I guess that's where the only romantic bone in my body is.

 

[terry78]

"If I was as skinny as you, I would sleep with so many guys."

Is weight all that's keeping us from snagging a ****e a day? Geez.

 

[Erzengel]

I don't wait for things to happen to me - I make them happen myself, but it's different in a relationship. You can't make someone like you, or make someone more compatible with you if they aren't.

Sure you can.

I have tried the online dating thing, and it hasn't worked. I just don't get any chemistry even with guys who have similar interests as me. Plus, I have other things that I'd like to do that are higher on my list than "finding a boyfriend." So, I figure I'll just live life the way I want to, and I'll meet the right person eventually. I guess that's where the only romantic bone in my body is.

Lot of people are less patient than you.

 

[Anita18]

"If I was as skinny as you, I would sleep with so many guys."

Is weight all that's keeping us from snagging a ****e a day? Geez.

I never said my friend was right - she has serious self-esteem issues and I don't think that kind of attitude is healthy, but there's only so much I can help her with.

Lot of people are less patient than you.

LOL! I suppose so...I have had some guys ask me what I do when I'm horny, and it's like, "...are you serious?"

It's like, I could understand being Elizabeth at the end of POTC3. If I knew that my love was out there, was alive, and was waiting for me, I could wait 10 years for him. It would hurt, of course, but I wouldn't find another man just because I felt lonely.

 

[KenK]

I never said my friend was right - she has serious self-esteem issues and I don't think that kind of attitude is healthy, but there's only so much I can help her with.


LOL! I suppose so...I have had some guys ask me what I do when I'm horny, and it's like, "...are you serious?"

Well, what DO you do? Seriously, if you don't my the inquiry?

It's like, I could understand being Elizabeth at the end of POTC3. If I knew that my love was out there, was alive, and was waiting for me, I could wait 10 years for him. It would hurt, of course, but I wouldn't find another man just because I felt lonely.

See, I used to be the type of hopeless romantic that would go for that kind of thing, but then I think about it and it's like, "hopeless" the operative word here. Maybe it's the impending collapse of my currently relationship, and how much it mirrors a similar situation I was in with another girl, but I'm beginning to give up on stuff like that. It'd be nice, and I'm sure there was a time when women would let themselves become old spinsters waiting for the loves of their lives to return, but honestly, I just don't think that's realistic in this day and age. Maybe I'm just too much of a short term thinker, and if that makes me shallow and selfish, so be it, but I'm not waiting around for my girlfriend to "decide" whether or not she wants to be in a more serious relationship than the one we've had.

And what kills me is that she keeps telling me I'M the one putting pressure on her! All I've wanted is what we had in our first year; meet at her place, maybe we stay in, maybe we go somewhere and eat. We watch TV, or I bring over a movie, sometimes we have sex, sometimes we don't. But the bottom line is, there was a regularity that I wasn't trying to mess with. I knew she still liked her own living space, so I never pushed an issue of moving in together, to say nothing of the fact that I still live with my parents. I wasn't trying to move in with her, believe me. Bearing that in mind, marriage definitely wasn't a thought in either of our minds. And while I'll admit, I probably am guilty of intitally, taking every time she had time off from work as an opportunity to see her, I understood her concern and her need for space, and gave it to her. But now, it's like two months since we had a real date, and she's STILL talking about needing "single time". Before this past Tuesday, when I called her on her birthday, I hadn't called her in a week. I left her alone, and when I finally do call, we have a nice conversation, and she's like, "yeah, give me a call later if you want." Now, I figure, I'll let a few days go by, because honestly, she doesn't want me to call her, and if I had, I wouldn't have had jack s**t to say to her. But I called her yesterday, 'cause she said she'd be back in town from being in Charlottesville all week, and she STILL hasn't called me back. F*** romance if this is the crap I have to put up with.

I'm 27 years old this year, and you know what, I don't want to have to "date". I'm not looking forward to going out with a whole rack of different women trying to find "the one". I was happy with her, and she seemed happy with me. She's cooked for me, we've celebrated holidays together, we celebrated our one year anniversary(which was one of those incidents where she complained about us not spending time enough alone together, despite us having been together that whole f***ing day!), etc. Everything she ever did for me had a lot of thought behind it, and she acknowledged all my quirks and flaws. I'm not looking forward to going through the process of finding someone who will accept me for me.

 

[Erzengel]

Unfortunately, KenK sometimes people change, and if you have to date again, don't think of the whole arduous process, take it one meeting at a time or one date at a time.

 

[Erzengel]

And honestly KenK, somethings up with your girlfriend, whether she's seeing someone else, or is just unhappy, the no sex, not talking for a week at a time, not returning calls?

I think it's time for a "we need to talk" talks.

 

[KenK]

The Allure of Dating Jerks!

http://msn.match.com/msn/article.as...gID=516165&BannerID=541888&menuid=6&GT1=10287

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Well, what DO you do? Seriously, if you don't my the inquiry?

She reads Psalms 23 and sings "What A Friend We Have In Jesus."
What do you think she does?

 

[Erzengel]

Well, what DO you do? Seriously, if you don't my the inquiry?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

The Allure of Dating Jerks!

http://msn.match.com/msn/article.as...gID=516165&BannerID=541888&menuid=6&GT1=10287

Haha, I was going to post this same thing, but you beat me to it. Damnit!

 

[Hobgoblin]

Damn! I just posted that!